Does anyone know what is going on with hahns turbo kit. I just got off the phone with them and they dont knwo when its going to be done. They said there still trying to figure out the fuel managment. Has anyone heard anything diff. I really want a turbo for my car but tag wants to much for theres but they have some pretty inpressive numbers. Let me know if anyone bought the tag turbo kit. thanks guys

 

I was about to start a thread on this thank go i saw this thread because i would have been flamed lol. ANy way someone has to know what is going on with Hahnracecraft because there are already people with the twincharge kit running and tuned properly. What i want to know is where these people are getting the kits if they arent realeased yet? Or are they putting the kits together themselves?

 

you won't find any aftermarket company that can turbo this engine with oem reliability and that is what hahn is trying to do.

these lsj motors are just too damn sensitive to changes

and they can't just pump the power out either cause it will break alot and then that will be bad news for hanh. i honestly wouldn't be suprised if they back out of the market for our car

 

I would have to disagree with you, not about everything though.

Yes, our cars are very sensitive to changes in air/fuel, BUT...with proper time and tuning all of that can be adjusted for.

As far as things breaking goes, alot of those problems are because of improper tuning and/or improper supporting mods. I, as well as a few others, really believe that our motors are more then capable of some very nice numbers without getting too much into the block itself. Headgaskets and headstuds need to be done right around 300whp, axles need to be done, clutch upgrades will need to be done for big number support, and maybe some valve springs depending on what you want to set the redline at. Neutral balance shafts would probably be another way to go as well.

Other then that I truly believe that our motors are quite capable of some damn nice numbers. Next Fall/Winter time, depending on how this summer goes, may be the start of a pretty decent project for mine. We will see though. Proper tuning is key with our motors, you can ask anyone. lol...Some will know that first hand

 

with a turbo setup you guys will be able to safely see well over 300whp for sure. The eaton is just so inneficient, you guys are really hurting because of it. Guys running 2.5"s and 2.6"s that are putting down the highest power numbers are overspinning the blowers and some of you are seeing IAT's of what....like 165?! Hypereutectic pistons are not weak when it comes to power necessarily, but they are very weak when it comes to knocking compared to forged. With the right tune, they can be safe at pretty high power levels and your rods are fine. Since you guys are having to overspin your blowers to get desirable power (18 psi and whatever) you are creating huge amounts of parasitic loss, and the high iat's are making the **** harder to tune. I can assure you with a quality turbo setup you guys will be able to safely make 310+whp. you are probably losing a good 50hp in parasitic loss alone when you are spinning the eatons as fast as you are with those 2.5"s and you will see lower temps with good turbo setup with better flow. Of course as stated above you do have quite a few weak points, but luckily they aren't super expensive. just wait, it's gonna happen for you guys soon enough. reliable 12's are gonna be happening around herefor quite a few of you.

 

I agree 100% with ^^

 

it has nothing to do with how much power our engines can make, it has to do with what these companies have to do in supporting mods to the engines to make them reliable.

how long did it take the companies to release upgraded turbo kits for the turbo solstice? about 4 weeks, it's been over 2 years with the SS, and not a single big name company has mass produced a turbo conversion for it. hahn has been working on the twincharge kit now since august of 2005 (roughly), and gravana just gave up on their kit.

these engines are too much of a pita for these companies to work with.

 

It's not so much that it's a pain in the ass. Hell, we have the same damn engine as the Soltice. It's that alot of the companies don't have the time nor the money to put into a project like this. They are trying to make it so that it won't be too crazy in price so as to be able to sell it to the general public. They give up either because they don't think it would be feasible for future sales, or other reasons with the actual owners of the vehicles also. Doing Turbo swaps, and what not are very involved, price wise as well as time wise. You have to VERY dedicated to completing a project like this.

 

I heard there is a Turbo swap done from a certain company.. Few more weeks and its all wrapped up..

 

I've been doing a lot of reading and even have a few friends who added a turbo to the SSsc
unless you are considering rebuilding the entire engine dont do it, the stock clutch and motor cant handle the turbo also...

 

Also if you ask some one to shell out $5000 dollars for a kit that might get them an extra 40 HP over a stock supercharger with a smaller pulley where is the market for that???

 

Show me a market for the 8 different turbo/supercharger kits out for the xA and xB that increase hp from 20-40hp(not wheel hp) and I'll give you an answer for your question.

 

lol. here's the thing though... if you spend enough r&d time on the setup you can make quite a bit more power than the roots can. all the 2.5" guys who are seeing the highest numbers have very high IAT's probably around the 150's area, are way out of the efficiecnt range of the blower and that blower is being spun so fast it is probably robbing 50+hp. A good turbo setup will give you back that 50hp and run lower iat's for easier tuning and less stress, so another 60hp is probably attainable. AND you will see quite a bit more torque from a proper turbo setup. overall you are going to gain alot more than 30hp lol. i can see the turbo setups being safely in deep 12's whereas running even high 12's on the stock roots means you are pushing the engine to it's limits and can expect some problems.

 

well did they add or convert? big difference there. pretty broad and ignorant statement

 

Ok I think we need to clear something up that has been bothering me for a while now. Our engines have forged internals except for the pistons so they are hardly weak. The HP isn't blowing the pistons. Let's put that myth aside right now. HP is a mathmatical representation of the efficiency of the engine. What is popping the pistons on our stock M62 charged LSJs is the heat of the intake charge. Hot air is harder to compress than cold.

What does that mean you say? Well let's look at this scientifically. Fill a balloon with cold air from an air tank and fill another with hot air from your breath. The cold air ballon will require much more air to fill it. When molecules of a gas are heated they become active. They move around faster and therefore fill a void with much fewer and are harder to compress. They create pressure just from their own movement. Cold molecules of a gas do not move as much, although all molecules are in a state of constant motion even those in solids but that is for another discussion. What does that mean to the engine? Well...

An internal combustion engine is an air pump. The more air you move through it the more efficient it is and the more power it will make. More air means more fuel means more power. Now your pistons can only take a certain amount of pressure before breaking. Hot air requires more pressure to compress than cold. The hotter the intake charge, the less air that can be compressed into the cylinder, the less power you get. SO... if your SC or TC can move colder air into the cylinder it can make MORE hp with less pressure on the pistons... wait. That means I can make 300whp without over stressing my pistons if I can keep the intake charge cooler. More efficient blowers move air and lower PSIs and lower intake temperatures.

HP doesn't = popped internals. Too much pressure = popped internals. Lower the IAT, lower the pressure in the cylinders, lower the stress on the pistons, while making more HP.

 

yo is there a kit for 2.4ss that actually works w/o modifying it or the engine blowing up...damn..and that doesnt cost 3-5k ... ru serious?? a normal turbo kit should cost like 1-1500 k.

 

while i agree with most of what you are saying here it is somewhat misleading in saying that hp doesn't = "popped internals" There is a point where getting your iat's lower will do almost nothing for you because you are going to have a "floor" or minimum amount of pressure at a given power level. But like i said before, and like you said here, a huge problem with the m62 setup is how much heat it is creating with the 2.5's and 2.6"s.

is that a joke? you have to pay to play, and you are NOT going to get a quality kit without at the very very least 3k. you can add forced induction to the 2.4 without it blowing, you just gotta do it right, and that isnt gonna happen with $1500!

 

Agreed but it is still the pressure causing the problem not the resulting HP number. My main point was that people keep saying 300hp is gonna blow your engine. This not true. 300hp with an M62 on the LSJ might due to the heat the M62 causes to create that HP but 300hp from a Turbo or, agian hopefully, a twinscrew probably won't.

 

i agree, and that is a factor, but you are still going to be able to make quite a bit higher numbers with the turbo. The reason being the parasitic loss. The twin-screw is still likely going to rob you of a good 40hp and will be less efficicent then the turbo setup. With the same amount of stress on internal engine components, the turbo is still going to be able to make a good 20% more power. That's why im going turbo on my car. The technology of turbo's now can give you much better results than any supercharger can, but it will cost quite a bit more. There's a turbo kit out for my car that reaches peak boost in the mid 2k rpm range and people are putting down almost 400rwhp at only 9 psi...there are people running centrifugals at 12 psi with lower numbers, and they spool slower. the torque is rediculous too, mid 400's at 9 psi. the thing is, it costs a good 1,000 more than any of the centrifugal systems. You gotta make a judgement on what you want and what you are willing to spend. me, i like the idea of making mid 300's hp and high 300's torque at only 7 psi on the street, then have maybe a 10 psi tune with 400's to the wheels for the track, and i have the money to do it, so the turbo is perfect for me, but some people only want around 300whp so the centri is perfect for them. If i were anyone here, i wouldn't be the first to buy the twinscrew or the turbo as you are gonna want to get an idea of what kinda numbers people are putting down. you don't want to spend a ton of money then realize you wanted something else.

 

Again I agree. However let's quell another myth, turbos do create parasitic loss. Not as much as any kind of supercharger but Turbos create backpressure in the exhaust that is not there otherwise, therefore creating some, although minimal, parasitic loss. Turbos are not 100% efficient as some would like to believe. They are far more efficient, with the right cooling setup, than a supercharger, but are not 100%. Turbos also create heat, more so than centrifugal or twinscrew superchargers actually, but it is easier to cool their intake charge due to the way they utilize intercoolers vs the aftercooler of a twinscrew or roots system.

 

umm not to thread jack any further but you kinda off in this assumption. pistons dont break while on their compression stroke. the problem wth the hot intake charge is the hotter air is subject to preignition. with lower iats come denser air which in turn requires more fuel to accomplish a desired air fuel burn ratio. this is what creates higher cylinder pressure.

 

You a bit confusing here. Are you saying that detonation is causing the failed engines or the lower IAT and more fuel being required?

 

I hope he means detonation. lower IAT and subsequently more fuel would only serve to generate more power at lower stress levels.

"Density" of the air is the amount of oxygen molecules within that amount of air. This requires more fuel to create the proper ratio, however the pressure is greater with hotter air as the molecules are more active so you must force more air to be able to use the same amount of fuel resulting in more pressure within the cylinder. The pistons compress the amount of fuel and air in a cylinder into a smaller more compact space. The more air and fuel it has to compress the more stress. Thus the reason colder air is better. The higher "density" of the air means that less air can be used for a given amount of fuel, meaning less stuff for the piston to have to force into a smaller area.

I don't believe Blown4banger was getting any knock or detonation when he popped his motor, which would dispell the theory that detonation is the cause. However the amount of pressure required to create the amount of power he was putting down would cause undo stress on his pistons as his IATs were probably higher than desired.

 

I was speaking of cylinder pressure in general. Whose failed engine did youhave in mind?
First bolded statement is confusing. Are you talking about supercharger efficiency or the engine's cylinder pressure/volumetric efficiency?
Second bolded statement is inaccurate. Pistons only compress air on their compression stroke. That is not where peak pressure happens, it happens in the power stroke. Less air and fuel equalling the same power is a moot point. Throttle bodies allow incoming air based on volume, not mass.

Denser air means more air and fuel at WOT. That increases cylinder pressure and makes horsepower.

Blown4banger and a few others destroyed a compression ringland on piston 4. We have a returnless fuel system which causes a pressure drop at the end of the fuel rail. When you tune A/F ratio, you are tuning an average between all 4 pistons. The burn will be rich at the feed end of the rail, and lean at the other.

 

"We have a returnless fuel system which causes a pressure drop at the end of the fuel rail. When you tune A/F ratio, you are tuning an average between all 4 pistons. The burn will be rich at the feed end of the rail, and lean at the other."

Do you have EGT data to back up this claim?If you do it's a simple fix.

You can get a set of injectors that are flow matched according to the leaner cylinders.
I'm gettin a the protoptype cast manifold pre tapped for EGT's I may invest in an altronics setup to test your theory Witt.
It's all about testing and Data ..I Know for a fact the LSJ lives above 300whp..