Japeatr's install pics of Powell Custom Fuel System
11-03-2013, 11:41 PM
#31
Thank u Powell. Ill have a few more coming with my 2.4 lsj very soon.
I just don't see the idea of using the same flow pump.
Now if he ran 2 bosh 044 i could understand.
I just don't see the idea of using the same flow pump.
Now if he ran 2 bosh 044 i could understand.
11-04-2013, 06:47 AM
#32
The 044 has a MUCH more linear flow vs pressure than most pumps out there, which is one if the reasons it's so widely used.
That said, it would be a little tricky to mount one (let alone 2) in our canister. That also doesn't help at low tank levels.
By running a surge tank you are free to mount 1,2,5, heck even a dozen in parallel, or any other high flow pump of your choice that wouldn't be able to fit in the tank.
That said, it would be a little tricky to mount one (let alone 2) in our canister. That also doesn't help at low tank levels.
By running a surge tank you are free to mount 1,2,5, heck even a dozen in parallel, or any other high flow pump of your choice that wouldn't be able to fit in the tank.
11-04-2013, 08:08 AM
#33
I would have to disagree on that if zzp can make more hp then anyone else on it then
you are out of injector and you are out of pump if you have to run a **** ton of line pressure to keep up with demands then you need to rethink things the route your going your not going to see much of a difference considering your going to have to jack the fuel pressure to the moon to keep up you increase pressure you reduce volume
you are out of injector and you are out of pump if you have to run a **** ton of line pressure to keep up with demands then you need to rethink things the route your going your not going to see much of a difference considering your going to have to jack the fuel pressure to the moon to keep up you increase pressure you reduce volume
Last edited by mrbelvedere; 11-04-2013 at 08:37 AM.
11-04-2013, 09:40 AM
#38
I am not sure folks understand what a surge tank does. In 1320 feet its entirely possible that a surge tank is not necessary I am not a drag racer. For road racing it becomes essential. Its proven that the stock Cobalt tank wont pick up fuel below a half tank in an 04 redline 05 cobalt and 06 up appear better but still wont pick up the last 1/4. iirc. A surge tank then becomes essential for serious track work, for folks not wanting to carry around 70 -100 lbs of fuel all the time just to get fuel delivery.
The 044 Bosch pump is the gold standard for folks wanting an effective reliable pump. It can work in or out of the fuel tank. It would be a lot of work to make it operate intank on a stock Cobalt system.
just because no one here has done a surge tank that I know of, doesnt make Japetr or my configurations wrong or unneccessary.
The real question is, why does it take folks so long to understand the form and function?
^^^ reading impaired
The 044 Bosch pump is the gold standard for folks wanting an effective reliable pump. It can work in or out of the fuel tank. It would be a lot of work to make it operate intank on a stock Cobalt system.
just because no one here has done a surge tank that I know of, doesnt make Japetr or my configurations wrong or unneccessary.
The real question is, why does it take folks so long to understand the form and function?
^^^ reading impaired
Last edited by Powell Race Parts; 11-04-2013 at 09:44 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
11-04-2013, 10:19 AM
#40
I am not sure folks understand what a surge tank does. In 1320 feet its entirely possible that a surge tank is not necessary I am not a drag racer. For road racing it becomes essential. Its proven that the stock Cobalt tank wont pick up fuel below a half tank in an 04 redline 05 cobalt and 06 up appear better but still wont pick up the last 1/4. iirc. A surge tank then becomes essential for serious track work, for folks not wanting to carry around 70 -100 lbs of fuel all the time just to get fuel delivery.
The 044 Bosch pump is the gold standard for folks wanting an effective reliable pump. It can work in or out of the fuel tank. It would be a lot of work to make it operate intank on a stock Cobalt system.
just because no one here has done a surge tank that I know of, doesnt make Japetr or my configurations wrong or unneccessary.
The real question is, why does it take folks so long to understand the form and function?
^^^ reading impaired
The 044 Bosch pump is the gold standard for folks wanting an effective reliable pump. It can work in or out of the fuel tank. It would be a lot of work to make it operate intank on a stock Cobalt system.
just because no one here has done a surge tank that I know of, doesnt make Japetr or my configurations wrong or unneccessary.
The real question is, why does it take folks so long to understand the form and function?
^^^ reading impaired
if you need to run a base pressure that is stupid high on 400hp maybe 425 boosted 4cyl then something else is wrong with the fuel system if he was on a race blended e or on race gas things would be different
and im not knocking what you are doing jp
it has a pump(or twin pumps)a fuel line fuel filter and 4 inj its not completely different
11-04-2013, 10:23 AM
#41
my car would starve out on a 3rd gear punch, and would go stupid lean on the dyno past 7200 rpm
It happened when i tuned it on the dyno at 21stCenturyMuclecars
Area drove down to Texas to tune a handful of cars on DFWGMElite, and we could duplicate it on the street and Alamo Autosports dyno, and he was saying that it is running out of fuel and that im likely the first to reach the limits of the stock fueling on TVS.
It happened when i tuned it on the dyno at 21stCenturyMuclecars
Area drove down to Texas to tune a handful of cars on DFWGMElite, and we could duplicate it on the street and Alamo Autosports dyno, and he was saying that it is running out of fuel and that im likely the first to reach the limits of the stock fueling on TVS.
11-04-2013, 10:27 AM
#42
I have understood what a surge tank is for a longtime it is a remote mount sump you use that because the stock tank sump is inadequate and the bosch 044 is a great pump for what it dose but this is not an n/a v8 that has half the demand for fuel which the bosch pump works great on but will never do what needs to be done here he needs a man pump period and he needs to step up the inj size also
if you need to run a base pressure that is stupid high on 400hp maybe 425 boosted 4cyl then something else is wrong with the fuel system if he was on a race blended e or on race gas things would be different
and im not knocking what you are doing jp
it has a pump(or twin pumps)a fuel line fuel filter and 4 inj its not completely different
if you need to run a base pressure that is stupid high on 400hp maybe 425 boosted 4cyl then something else is wrong with the fuel system if he was on a race blended e or on race gas things would be different
and im not knocking what you are doing jp
it has a pump(or twin pumps)a fuel line fuel filter and 4 inj its not completely different
4 cylinder needs 2x the fuel a v8 does to make the same power.
i run E85
I have 1000s in there now.
the surge tank is essentially a fat spot in the line to allow stability in the volumetric demand
the intank pump size no longer matters, as it is just keeping the surge tank full.
11-04-2013, 10:31 AM
#43
my car would starve out on a 3rd gear punch, and would go stupid lean on the dyno past 7200 rpm
It happened when i tuned it on the dyno at 21stCenturyMuclecars
Area drove down to Texas to tune a handful of cars on DFWGMElite, and we could duplicate it on the street and Alamo Autosports dyno, and he was saying that it is running out of fuel and that im likely the first to reach the limits of the stock fueling on TVS.
It happened when i tuned it on the dyno at 21stCenturyMuclecars
Area drove down to Texas to tune a handful of cars on DFWGMElite, and we could duplicate it on the street and Alamo Autosports dyno, and he was saying that it is running out of fuel and that im likely the first to reach the limits of the stock fueling on TVS.
11-04-2013, 10:36 AM
#45
agreed however, couple things.
4 cylinder needs 2x the fuel a v8 does to make the same power.
i run E85
I have 1000s in there now.
the surge tank is essentially a fat spot in the line to allow stability in the volumetric demand
the intank pump size no longer matters, as it is just keeping the surge tank full.
4 cylinder needs 2x the fuel a v8 does to make the same power.
i run E85
I have 1000s in there now.
the surge tank is essentially a fat spot in the line to allow stability in the volumetric demand
the intank pump size no longer matters, as it is just keeping the surge tank full.
11-04-2013, 10:40 AM
#47
48 is not bad atleast you all are smart enough not to jack the pressure to the moon that should always bee the absolute last resort
then you need more pump then you have now and possibly a line size increase to carry more volume to the rail
tj and I have been talking about this some and he had an interesting take on this the return line after the rail returning hot fuel to the tank heating up the fuel in the tank could be a problem also
then you need more pump then you have now and possibly a line size increase to carry more volume to the rail
tj and I have been talking about this some and he had an interesting take on this the return line after the rail returning hot fuel to the tank heating up the fuel in the tank could be a problem also
Last edited by mrbelvedere; 11-04-2013 at 10:47 AM.
11-04-2013, 10:53 AM
#49
So, since the (factory) sump is known to have issues with extended demand on track (something zzp doesn't do) then I don't see the reason behind you knocking a surge tank so hard.
I agree that there shouldn't be that much of a delivery issue at 400hp.
But beyond that, I personally see the zzp dual pump as a band aid that will still only take you so far.
The nice thing about jap's setup is that he can now pretty easily add a second 044 if needed, and never again have to worry about running the canister dry.
I agree that there shouldn't be that much of a delivery issue at 400hp.
But beyond that, I personally see the zzp dual pump as a band aid that will still only take you so far.
The nice thing about jap's setup is that he can now pretty easily add a second 044 if needed, and never again have to worry about running the canister dry.