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Japeatr's knocking at the track rebuild thread

2.0L LSJ Performance Tech 205hp Supercharged SS tuner version. 200 lb-ft of torque.

Japeatr's knocking at the track rebuild thread

Old 09-13-2014, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mrbelvedere View Post
solid lash adjusters will not affect street use there has been plenty of ohc engines that are solid and go well into 100k 200k plus mileage its frees up hp also

ill holler at ya today
Shenanigans
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Old 09-13-2014, 08:50 AM
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nope no shenanigans
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Old 09-13-2014, 08:51 AM
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Wow that was interesting. Back on topic I prefer the stock oil cooler set up. I have seen too much wear from over cooled race engines on start up. The stock cooling system is pretty darn good. I did make a Ron davis radiator for test in 2005 eventually mike Kramer used it in his race redline but our testing showed no gain cooling performance / weight etc. It was heavy. If you look at performance / power/weight relationship , Vaughn ,losing weight can sure provide a less expensive gain in any build. Iirc we used to figure 10 lbs = 1 hp but that may be inaccurate. Time attack cobalt got Down to 2200 lbs without driver the toughest part was losing weight at the front ; rear weight loss is easy
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Old 09-13-2014, 08:54 AM
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My take on solid lifters is the need for regular adjustment which is a pita. The lotus twin cam ford based Brian hart built engines I raced in formula cars needed adjustment check after every race. I like my Ecotec the way it is. Trouble free.
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Old 09-13-2014, 09:40 AM
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Lol.......
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Old 09-13-2014, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mrbelvedere View Post
nope no shenanigans
Link
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Old 09-14-2014, 09:28 AM
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go read alan solid lifters/lash adjusters have been around longer and utilized longer then hydraulic lifters and are still in use
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Old 09-14-2014, 02:56 PM
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It is not my burden to prove your theory. That's on you.
No ecotec is running 200k on solids.
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Old 09-14-2014, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by armcclure View Post
It is not my burden to prove your theory. That's on you.
No ecotec is running 200k on solids.
mrb is right, plenty of motor's run solid lifters and run past 200k with no issues, powell is also right in that they require adjustment more often. But im sure this is all "armchair" science, am i right?
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Old 09-14-2014, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by armcclure View Post
It is not my burden to prove your theory. That's on you.
No ecotec is running 200k on solids.
its not a theory its fact ive been there done it and there is power to be had from solids
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Old 09-14-2014, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Spawne32 View Post
mrb is right, plenty of motor's run solid lifters and run past 200k with no issues, powell is also right in that they require adjustment more often. But im sure this is all "armchair" science, am i right?
No one likes you. And once again, you have no idea what you're talking about.
Originally Posted by mrbelvedere View Post
its not a theory its fact ive been there done it and there is power to be had from solids
It is NOT a fact that an ecotec can pull that off with a valve train not designed for solids. And I never said there wasn't power to be had. I just see absolutely no point in running them unless you're building a dyno queen and need every single available hp.
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Old 09-14-2014, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by armcclure View Post
No one likes you. And once again, you have no idea what you're talking about.


It is NOT a fact that an ecotec can pull that off with a valve train not designed for solids. And I never said there wasn't power to be had. I just see absolutely no point in running them unless you're building a dyno queen and need every single available hp.
TROOF I was looking at an old model T engine the other day with adjustable valve actuators that looked all too familiar to ancient mini/MG rockers (we called them that) and when you figure the A and B series British Austin/Morris / MG engines were circa 1960 and the Model T Ford was the first mass produced car around 1914 it's amazing the British actually made cars that run back then

MBut then in 1930's my dad ran the Shelsey Walsh hill ciimb in a CHAIN DRIVE Frazer-Nash and told me that at that time they twisted three main bearing crank engines to 7000 rpm.

SO

Why go backwards in technology for limited gains? If any. Just to troll the forums I am thinking. Folks on here don't have the cash to invest in solid lifters in a 3-8,000 dollar car

Be happy with what you have
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Old 09-14-2014, 07:07 PM
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actually there is a need but you need and not for dyno queen reasons the stock lash adjusters will not handle things very well and tend to collapse even the gen 2 lash adjusters are unstable the valve train does not care what it has its just metal and john powell solids are not going backwards they are going forward and even though most don't like spawne32 he is right
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Old 09-14-2014, 07:17 PM
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Now you're just being cantankerous. There's no reason to get worked up, I'm just stating my opinion.
By saying spawnee is right, you're calling your own facts armchair science, and we both know that's not true. So, save the drama.

At the end of the day ask 10 top engine builders if our setups need solids and most will tell you no. Just because you believe you need them does not mean Vaughn does. And on that note, from how you have described your issues, you're not collapsing the lifters anyway.
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Old 09-14-2014, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by armcclure View Post
Now you're just being cantankerous. There's no reason to get worked up, I'm just stating my opinion.
By saying spawnee is right, you're calling your own facts armchair science, and we both know that's not true. So, save the drama.

At the end of the day ask 10 top engine builders if our setups need solids and most will tell you no. Just because you believe you need them does not mean Vaughn does. And on that note, from how you have described your issues, you're not collapsing the lifters anyway.
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Old 09-14-2014, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by armcclure View Post
Now you're just being cantankerous. There's no reason to get worked up, I'm just stating my opinion.
By saying spawnee is right, you're calling your own facts armchair science, and we both know that's not true. So, save the drama.

At the end of the day ask 10 top engine builders if our setups need solids and most will tell you no. Just because you believe you need them does not mean Vaughn does. And on that note, from how you have described your issues, you're not collapsing the lifters anyway.
you can talk to 10 engine builders all you want and they well we don't know the ecotec so I could not tell you a dam thing about them most do not want to mess with them

im not being cantankerous in any way and its not armchair science the facts are there solids have been in use and still are in use longer then a hydraulic setups and they are more reliable I have had many discussions with the people who built ecotec race engines and a lot of what they said I already new from past experience there are good advantages to the solids the problem I have is lash adjuster related been verified
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Old 09-14-2014, 07:46 PM
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You are being cantankerous, because now you're saying the opposite of spawnee, but that's whatever. Moving on.

How was it verified you have lash adjuster problems? When one collapses slightly under pressure it takes it a while to build back up, and the engine runs like crap in the meantime. This IS how it works, not just a sometimes.
You never described whatever was happening at high rpm with yours in that way.

I really don't see why you're getting upset. I'm not saying you're WRONG. I'm just saying there's no proof that jap has even the slightest reasonable need to run solids.
If you want to run them, more power to you. I'll even help because I do think it would be fun to see what they can do if someone else is forking up the time and money, in addition to their longevity on a car that will see street use.
If you want me to take your word as fact than give me some evidence bud. That's really not so much to ask. Saying "go read" or "I've talked to people" doesn't cut it, you know me better than that.

And as a footnote, if we had a post mounted adjustable rocker, I'd be much more in favor of solids. The problem here is not that I don't think they work. I know they do. But it's not a set it and forget it for 200k type of deal and you know that. They are not forgiving in comparison to hydraulics and will need to be maintained.
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Old 09-14-2014, 08:09 PM
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a lifter only takes time to recover if its been floated to full collapse they don't always fully collapse the main problem is on the exhaust side of the head as for posting proof im not going to im tired of people doing a copy and paste if they want the information then they need to take the time as I have and do the work themselves

as for running solids I bet a ecotec would go just as far on them as any Honda

if a person expects to get a bunch of miles out of a big cammed high rpm small cubic in engine then they are high as **** 90% are to lazy or dumb to do the upkeep

and I am yet to get upset
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Old 09-14-2014, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mrbelvedere View Post
a lifter only takes time to recover if its been floated to full collapse they don't always fully collapse the main problem is on the exhaust side of the head as for posting proof im not going to im tired of people doing a copy and paste if they want the information then they need to take the time as I have and do the work themselves
That's all fine and dandy if that's how you feel. Just don't expect people to take your work as gold. I wouldn't expect anything different with the information I provide people either.
as for running solids I bet a ecotec would go just as far on them as any Honda
is it possible? Sure. Anything is. So show me a hydraulic honda converted to solid that's pushing 100-200k since the swap

if a person expects to get a bunch of miles out of a big cammed high rpm small cubic in engine then they are high as **** 90% are to lazy or dumb to do the upkeep

and I am yet to get upset
So why were you ranting about how reliable they are, and whoever running 100-200k?


This is why I'm pestering you. To make sure Vaughn gets all the info he needs to make the decision that is right for HIM.
You are aware of what it's going to take to run solids properly. He may not be.
So you can't just say hey you, you need this, so do it.
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Old 09-14-2014, 10:15 PM
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your pestering because you can nothing more and its not my fault people are lazy and to scared to step out and do **** but have to follow others

dose not matter if it was a hyd convert to solid or sold from the start the metal will never know or care about the difference but engine performance will

I don't have to rant about how reliable they usage and time has proven that

Last edited by mrbelvedere; 09-14-2014 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 09-14-2014, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mrbelvedere View Post
your pestering because you can nothing more
That may be how it appears to you. But that is not the case.
and its not my fault people are lazy and to scared to step out and do **** but have to follow others
Like I said, fine, but understand what the flip side is going to be.
Instead of telling jap what he needs to do based on what you've heard, do it yourself and be a leader.
dose not matter if it was a hyd convert to solid or sold from the start the metal will never know or care about the difference but engine performance will
it does matter. Engines designed for solids are much easier to adjust.

I don't have to rant about how reliable they usage and time has proven that
At one point you say 200k, then you say people are stupid if they expect it to last. I'm just digging for which is what you really feel.
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Old 09-15-2014, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by armcclure View Post
That may be how it appears to you. But that is not the case.

Like I said, fine, but understand what the flip side is going to be.
Instead of telling jap what he needs to do based on what you've heard, do it yourself and be a leader.
it does matter. Engines designed for solids are much easier to adjust.


At one point you say 200k, then you say people are stupid if they expect it to last. I'm just digging for which is what you really feel.
it is the case alan your digging to try and benefit yourself and its not what ive heard its what I know and as for the valve train it does not matter if it was converted from solid to hyd or hyd to solid it metal it has no feelings and as for mileage it does not matter if its sold or hyd lift/lash a high strung engine is not going to last a bunch of miles
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Old 09-15-2014, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mrbelvedere View Post
it is the case alan your digging to try and benefit yourself and its not what ive heard its what I know and as for the valve train it does not matter if it was converted from solid to hyd or hyd to solid it metal it has no feelings and as for mileage it does not matter if its sold or hyd lift/lash a high strung engine is not going to last a bunch of miles
That is an absolute BULLSHIT comment, especially coming from someone who is supposed to be a good friend. There is absolutely nothing for me to gain in regards to what valve train setup you or jap decides to run.

The entire purpose of me debating this with you was to bring out information that Vaughn needs to make the choice that is best for him, not just whatever someone tells him to, be that you OR anyone else.
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Old 09-15-2014, 04:14 PM
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Well Bates made the decision for me, have neither time to wait, nor money for what they cost to have made at Bates.

Im running hydraulics after all...

I do APPRECIATE the passion from my friends that I trust - Walters, Powell, McClure. It is good to know they are discussing my engine as far as pros and cons.

I would have run them from the thinking outside the box and all out perspective, however im not going down that path in regard to the solids
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Old 09-15-2014, 04:20 PM
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If you don't mind sharing, what was bates' cost and his thoughts on the whole situation? Or did you not go into pro/con detail with him?
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