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I put on the LSJ oil pan for the larger oil capacity and the Coolant pump bracket bolt holes.
I put in 6 quarts to start and during priming it was already splashing a little oil out of the pans dip stick tube hole at the pan.
Now that I am driving it, I have pushed the dip stick tub up twice with the tired OEM o-rings. I see this problem dates all the way back to 06 and possibly earlier. A new intake gasket is in a bulletin and a higher tension dip stick has also been offered. I am running the same boost as I was before but the new Diamond pistons do have the larger ring end gap so I was expecting more crank case pressure. I was hoping to get by without a catch can but it's looking like it will be necessary.
It's nice to have a dip stick that i can easily access vs the 2.4 position and the oil pan is super easy to change. I am tempted to go back to the 2.4 pan and see what happens.
I have since put on new o-rings which are tighter and haven't pushed the stick out yet so I may give it a bit but also don't want blow by going back into the laminova cores.
Could there be something different in the PCV pickup area? The reason I ask is that for the 2.4 ecotec miata swap they supply a new oil pan. They have a problem where the intake PCV tends to pickup straight oil and blow it into the IM during track use. They said their issue is that the oil pan puts oil close to the pickup tube. They "solve" it by blocking the PCV port in the IM and rely on the fresh air inlet in the valve cover to provide PCV. I'm skeptical of this "solution".
I put on the LSJ oil pan for the larger oil capacity and the Coolant pump bracket bolt holes.
I put in 6 quarts to start and during priming it was already splashing a little oil out of the pans dip stick tube hole at the pan.
Now that I am driving it, I have pushed the dip stick tub up twice with the tired OEM o-rings. I see this problem dates all the way back to 06 and possibly earlier. A new intake gasket is in a bulletin and a higher tension dip stick has also been offered. I am running the same boost as I was before but the new Diamond pistons do have the larger ring end gap so I was expecting more crank case pressure. I was hoping to get by without a catch can but it's looking like it will be necessary.
It's nice to have a dip stick that i can easily access vs the 2.4 position and the oil pan is super easy to change. I am tempted to go back to the 2.4 pan and see what happens.
I have since put on new o-rings which are tighter and haven't pushed the stick out yet so I may give it a bit but also don't want blow by going back into the laminova cores.
Your problem is crankcase pressure, not the pan shape/design. Did you seat the rings into a freshly honed bore properly? or baby it around?
Originally Posted by exninja
Could there be something different in the PCV pickup area? The reason I ask is that for the 2.4 ecotec miata swap they supply a new oil pan. They have a problem where the intake PCV tends to pickup straight oil and blow it into the IM during track use. They said their issue is that the oil pan puts oil close to the pickup tube. They "solve" it by blocking the PCV port in the IM and rely on the fresh air inlet in the valve cover to provide PCV. I'm skeptical of this "solution".
Your problem is crankcase pressure, not the pan shape/design. Did you seat the rings into a freshly honed bore properly? or baby it around?
Crankcase pressure has always been my thought when I read those other complaints but the stock 2.4 ran a .012 end gap where as the diamonds under boost call for around .020. It's getting broke in correctly but even when that is done I have twice the end gap. Compression is great and the PCV is working. The new o-rings have been keeping it in and the stick I was using was the 2.4 stick which is exactly the same length as the LSJ. I'm sure they had the same o-rings but it took nothing to pull it out before. Now it has tension. If I go to the Harrop 1320 I don't think I will get by without a better breather to catch can system.
The difference in end gap is absolutely minuscule. you're talking about a 0.000016 square inch difference from your old setup. That's not where the blowby is coming from.
If you didn't re hone the bores, and run the engine hard after its first heat cycle, your rings aren't sealed optimally and never will be.
Yesterday was the first drive and it contained varied RPM's as well as several short hard pulls. It wasn't idled for extended periods of time nor was it ran WOT for long periods of time. Everyone is an engine break in expert but very few have done it for a living. Problem is they are still breaking them in like they did in the 60's before rings were all pre-lapped. It's best to follow the manufacturers break in procedures since there are many different types of rings. Anyone that tells you there is only one way to break in rings should be avoided.
We'll see how the dip stick does now that it doesn't have petrified o-rings on it.
Breaking is mostly BS. All you are doing is cooling down potential hotspots left from machining. Run it, cool it and repete a few times so no hot spot cooks before it can wear in. Dip stick on these gets zip tied. No exceptions. If you run it popped out it will suck dirt into the oil. There is no cure worth risking that so zip it down.
Well.. The new o-rings are keeping the dip stick in plus I feel tension now where as before It just sat in there. I pushed out the dip stick during break in so that's probably all it was and although caught it immediately, it still makes a ******* mess. Changed out the oil today and added antifreeze to both the engine and Heat exchanger. I hate slimy antifreeze on a clean engine build should there be a leak which I did have with the ZZP side plate for the Intake. Their pipes are much smaller than the diameter of hose they give you so the top and center pipe leaked right away. Drained it and put on better hose that was actually round and that stopped.
There are a lot of posts and even technical service bulletins that GM acknowledged all the way back to 06 so you can't ignore that and blame every brand new SS SC dip stick blowing out on crankcase pressure. The oil dip stick hole sits flush with the tin cover. If I have the pan off again I would like to shield that hole.
The PCV on these is very small. If you ever had one apart and saw how small the holes are that are checked with that little rubber seal you would agree. I still think a quality catch can system is in order for the future of this engine.
There are a lot of posts and even technical service bulletins that GM acknowledged all the way back to 06 so you can't ignore that and blame every brand new SS SC dip stick blowing out on crankcase pressure. The oil dip stick hole sits flush with the tin cover. If I have the pan off again I would like to shield that hole.
The PCV on these is very small. If you ever had one apart and saw how small the holes are that are checked with that little rubber seal you would agree. I still think a quality catch can system is in order for the future of this engine.
On the sealed engine ecotec classes of racing guess what part they do allow you to change? The oil pan. The rest of the PCV problem you figured out. It sucks. Port the valve cover to one of those little valve cover filters and zip tie the dip stick. Trying to pull a vacuum on the crank does not materialize on these engines. Vent the valve cover to air and zip tie the stick because the whole pan and PCV is not up for much more than a street driven vehicle.
My PCV is working as designed and anyone can check theirs with a piece of paper if you don't actually have a crankcase pressure tester. The next time I take off my manifold I am going to block it and make an external one that passes through a catch can instead of re-burning the crankcase vapors. The amount you choose to vent can be compensated for with HPT. Putting it in the valve cover will also make it easy to test and replace vs the LSJ PCV in the damn manifold.
My PCV is working as designed and anyone can check theirs with a piece of paper if you don't actually have a crankcase pressure tester. The next time I take off my manifold I am going to block it and make an external one that passes through a catch can instead of re-burning the crankcase vapors. The amount you choose to vent can be compensated for with HPT. Putting it in the valve cover will also make it easy to test and replace vs the LSJ PCV in the damn manifold.
Working as designed was for a ***** in a daily driver. Just read the posts above. Feather the throttle between 4800-6200 constantly for 10 minutes while under load and stock PCV can not keep up. Vent it thru a can or whatever but vent it well, to atmosphere and zip tie the stick. It may never pop out but when it does it sucks dirt and dust into the oil especially when it's hooked to a vacuum. Or do it the way the pussies do and drive it like a girl, 1/4 mile at a time or don't beat it so it will never be a problem. A catch can to vaccum reburns vapor and only condenses heavy oil. The next dork will tell you PCV vacuum increases power by reducing pressure under the pistons. Yeah if you run a seperate pump and have 1000 hp. Put a breather on the valve cover, zip your stick and be done in 10 minutes. The stock PVC is such a cluster that none of the threads on it go anywhere but in a ditch. It works fine on a DD or maybe a street light racer but if your a driver or run mountain passes it does not vent enough to reliably retain the stick. Zip tie it and or vent the valve cover thru a can if you want and then to atmosphere. Leave all the rest of the stock junk in place. Mine vents thru a tiny K&N valve cover filter with a filter oil soaked cotton sock over it. Everything stays clean that way. Especially the oil. When I drive normal it works normal. When I stay in the boost it vents out thru both. Do you need a zip tie after the extra venting? They cost a nickel.
I popped out my dipstick once when I experimented with blocking the valve cover breather port. Also splashed oil everywhere when I pulled the dipstick while it was running. Now that I have less blowby and have PCV setup in stock configuration I don't have issues with it and am running LSJ dipstick. Can't say what your problem is for sure but make sure your valve cover port can breath and if working properly should be enough to negate any crank case pressure.
BTW, welcome to modified Cobalt's where shiny parts just make you cuss more when you scratch them up taking them on and off repeatedly. Each time I take mine apart I care less and less about how the engine bay looks. Even just dust build up from sitting in the garage is a pain to keep up with.
This is the place that builds aftermarket pans to order. There may be others. My engine has to sit square with the bell housing foward to mount to the transaxle so I run 7 quarts in a stock pan. A dry sump with a lower CG engine mount would be ****.
This is the place that builds aftermarket pans to order. There may be others. My engine has to sit square with the bell housing foward to mount to the transaxle so I run 7 quarts in a stock pan. A dry sump with a lower CG engine mount would be ****.
Small but respected race shop that does my aluminum welding. Probably not as expensive as you think.
Thanks for the link.
Dip stick is staying in now with new o-rings.
Factory PCV is working as designed which is meager and I will be experimenting with an additional one.
Will be adding a one way Catch can system and keeping the OEM filtered system.
on my l61 swapped 944 i had to get creative with the pcv. im running a modified lnf intake manifold and there is no way to run a factory pcv, so its blocked in the manifold. i ran it with just a -12 line to a catch can for a season, but it kept weeping out the front crank seal and polluted the oil pretty quick. i ended up getting a mitsubishi DSM pcv valve and put it in a threaded hole in the back of the valve cover. it seems to pull enough air through it to keep the oil cleaner.
keep in mind, the pcv valve should close under boost so its not pressurising the crankcase, and any crankcase pressure goes out the port on the valve cover. if your blowing the dipstick out you either have a pcv valve that isnt working correctly or there is too much crankcase pressure for the stock 1/2" valve cover port to handle (or the hose is kinked, seen that before). again, i run a -12 hose to a catch can thats vented to atmosphere, however i dont run a mass air flow sensor. anytime you have a mass air flow sensor system you need the crankcase vent to go back into the air inlet tube between the maf and throttle body, but its a good idea to run it through a sealed catch can first.
What I could do to improve the system is change my breathers AN6 fittings to an AN10-12 fitting. The AN6 fitting ends up leaving me with only a 1/4" at best diameter hole at the fittings. The reason I would rather leave it at an AN6 and add an AN10 catch can system is the AN6 is plenty for the PCV flow in and I don't want the flow out putting any combustion gasses in my Laminova cores. Every time I take a manifold apart for someone the cores are plugged with oil debris. After I add a one way catch can system I will put a one way check valve in the current breather line so none of that goes into the Laminova cores.
that -6 hose is smaller than whats on there stock. not enough can pass through that hose, thats why the dipstick blew out.
what i would do on your setup is run at least a -10 hose from the valve cover into a proper sealed catch can, and run a -10 hose from there to the air intake. this allows the pcv system to work correctly under vacuum and allows crankcase pressure out under boost without putting any oil into the air intake.
Stock is a confusing cluster. Wade thru the threads on PCV and you will see that maybe one person can explain how the stock system actually works and when. Probably was B. If somebody could explain logically the stock PVC then that would be good. It's not as simple on these LSJ's as you would think...
Pretty sure it is just a check valve from the crank case into the intake manifold. Check valve is open under vacuum and closed under boost. Under vacuum fresh air can only enter through the breather port on the valve cover. Under vacuum crank case air is sucked into the intake manifold and that air mass is replaced by blowby gasses and fresh air through the valve cover. As far as I know, the only metering mechanism is the orifice size in the head. The valve in the IM is simply a check valve and doesn't do any sort of metering.
Under boost no crank case air is inducted through the IM. The check valve is closed. Any excessive pressure is dumped through the valve cover port into the intake tract. No fresh air is introduced into the crank case at this time.
Pretty sure it is just a check valve from the crank case into the intake manifold. Check valve is open under vacuum and closed under boost. Under vacuum fresh air can only enter through the breather port on the valve cover. Under vacuum crank case air is sucked into the intake manifold and that air mass is replaced by blowby gasses and fresh air through the valve cover. As far as I know, the only metering mechanism is the orifice size in the head. The valve in the IM is simply a check valve and doesn't do any sort of metering.
Under boost no crank case air is inducted through the IM. The check valve is closed. Any excessive pressure is dumped through the valve cover port into the intake tract. No fresh air is introduced into the crank case at this time.
Your right Stump... There's one person that doesn't understand how it works. It's sad how the very basics components of an engine probably no longer get taught. I doubt few know how the AIR system works and what its true purpose was.
A slack tube manometer would be a good device to show the flow. This guy has a device like that but without water or mercury he has a weighted ball.
Very good video.
HGT you're so hell-bent on proving everyone (esp jd) wrong that you really didn't read what he said. That video was exactly the same as what he posted.
03-16-2018, 02:38 PM
