Speed Mafia

yeah its hard to say or know how it will act...i mean we might run 15psi and be climbing fast on 300whp so we will have to go to a bigger pulley to drop down the boost So all in all we can hope for the best and with the large 6.25 crank pulley that leaves us with allot of options for boost and pulley size.

I am very confident this will be a mod that will be a sweet swap and have allot of room to grow for power...not only that you go and sell the existing Roots setup and recoup some of the money for more parts..pistons, rods...etc

cobi

Awesome, be sure to keep us updated along the way

Only con I can see so far is losing that sweet whiiiiiiiine from a roots/twinscrew to the whistle of a centri

Speed Mafia

yep those are different for sure!

roots have that zzziipppp sounds and Centrif...have a whine sounds at idle and higher rpm! and when cruising sounds like a jet! and nice huuummm

Mikey851

We can run 300WHP on the stock pistons if heat is kept at bay, which the procharger will be much better at compared to the roots. I have ran 315WHP 300lbs torque on a small block Chevy with the same Hypereutectic pistons for over a year. The only reason they got swapped is because we wanted to, not because we had to. As far as the fuel system; it will be fine as well around the 300WHP mark, once again bringing us back to heat. Since the centrifugal will produce less heat than the Eaton, people will not have to run ungodly AFRs for protection so the fuel system would not be strained as much.

I'm not saying this is better than a turbo, because from a technical aspect it's not. But, for ease of installation/adaptation and the fact that it comes close to turbo style performance without expensive fabricated exhaust manifolds etc., it is definately a good mod and something to watch. It's not an extremely common mod for 4 cylinders for a reason, although you can make it work okay.

blueta

Tapping the oil pan is a very easy process and should not be the deciding factor of which way you want to go with a major project.

But with a v8 300hp would only be 37.5 horsepower per cylinder (hardly a strain), while a 4 cylinder would be at 75 each. But I do agree that heat is a major player in this game. I also agree that over 300whp is very possible on the stock pistons. I've had over 400RWHP in one of my lt1's with 10.5:1 hyper pistons, and a blower with no intercooler (blowers on lt1's are a big no no for those who don't know), and it didn't ever pop a piston. So I'll sit back and see what this develops into.

SSMOKEM

Just wanted to say great read, and great info from all the gear heads contributing

I hope the project pans out well, and hope to have a procharger sitting in my engine bay

8cd03gro

well here's where it is different... Because of the considerably lower amount of heat the centri will produce (keep in mind, if you guys need to, it will be much easier to upgrade intercooler components or even to a diff. type of intercooler with a centri), tuning will be much easier, and you will be able to get more power out of a safer tune. Problems with pre-ignition and knocking will be much lower than they would be with the pissy little m62, so i can guaruntee you could safely run around 300whp for quite a long time.

BlownSaturn

Interesting idea, I'll be watching. I don't like cenrifugal chargers though. They mix the bad of both other forms of F/I. They don't build low end boost, like turbos, yet still are driven from the engine like a roots/screw. We'll see if the differences in heat and smoother boost delivery can offset it's inherent disadvantages.

cobi

Great info and answers guys

Another question: at low rpms will the centri move enough air to use a bypass valve for economics, or does it not flow enough down low to cause any concern?

8cd03gro

they also have advantages...A proper centrifugal setup will destroy an equal roots setup at the track, end of story. Far more efficient, and really, you dont need much boost under say 3k rpms when racing...you just need boost in your usable rpm range, which with a centri it will be there soon after you launch (not instantly but soon) and it will be still deep into boost when you shift. Turbo>centri>twin screw>roots. The "lag" of centrifugals is getting less and less significant, just like is happening with turbos...and centrifugals dominate the drag strip right now, although turbos are more limited by nhra etc., and many beleive turbos are greater than centris, there is no doubt that a centri will out perform an equal roots or twin screw any day on the strip and it will be VERY street friendly. It mixes some bads of the different FI setups, but also many positives.

Mikey851

Yeah, I agree with you. Some articles on the internet speak of the centrifugal and how it has the negatives from both a turbo and supercharger etc.; they are speaking more about the centrifugal in all around driving including street, track, strip and so on. Sure on the street it's not going to be convenient to hold extremely high revs to get power, but on the strip this is how MANY cars are setup now days.

Most race engines whether turbo, NA, or supercharged are high strung engines, and if they are not (ie big block, stroker) they still try to extend the power as long as possible. At the drag strip a long wound out powerband is very useful especially on our FWDs. There would need to be modifications made to enhance this and give the ability to do this on a regular basis, but once set up right it will perform well.

BlownSaturn

Well put although I have to disagree with that particular statement. I believe that which form of F/I is better than the other can vary greatly depending on a number of variables (unless you are speaking soley of efficiency). What concerns me is that the LSJ already has a tough time making power under 4K rpm with the roots cramming air in there..........how much of a mutt will it be when it has half the amount of boost at those engine speeds?

NJHK

I have no idea what you're talking about honey buns.

Mikey851

Yes he is speaking solely of efficiency (namely adiabatic). I see where you're coming from and this is what I was speaking of earlier in the thread and in my previous post. It will be a mutt from a dead stop in normal driving unless major changes are made to the engine such as compression ratio etc. to bring the efficiency of the engine itself up; you will have to drive the car in high rpms, launching at around 3500 RPM, but it will be completely different than with the roots. The power will not come all at once and snap an axle, you will simply build enough boost at those rpm levels to get yourself going.

Edit: Or there are ways such as 8cd03gro said, to set up a centri to avoid as much lag as possible.

Here is a video of a vortec civic beating an SRT4 and running a 12 in the quarter mile:

Click here to see Video

elecblue06

iTrader: (1)

oh man I feel a whole band of procharged balts and ions coming out of speed mafia.... it's going to be great.


just based on the fact that the procharger runs cooler, and has the ability to have a fmic as well as gradual (more drivable) boost. it'll make for a better DD as well as track car. yes it may have some inherent disadvantages being it's essentially a belt driven turbo but set up correctly they're minor when you realize pushing 300HP will be as easy as running a 3.0" or so pulley with supporting engine and breather mods. even C1 protential> m62 potential heatsoak FTL

good luck on your build man i envy you so much

that srt4 couldn't drive worth crap... however that doesn't mean that honda wasn't a freaking beast

BravoPuma6

plz make it fast, tag is taking too long making the twinscrew!

8cd03gro

well i hate to say it guys, but with the centri your car will just drive like a real powerful honda. No low-end power, but when you rev it out BAM! power baby. And that really isn't all bad. Great gas mileage, very tame until you step on it, and very fun to drive.

Jimmys2007CobaltSS/C

iTrader: (1)

damn dat civic s i was fast..destry the srt-4

Mikey851

Yep. I must admit I love the feeling of the centri power. It's power which comes on exponentially. It feels like some of the Mercedes that I test drive, like the SL600 V12 Biturbo, except of course it is fast as SH*T.

8cd03gro

haha yes i know that car well...well not that car specifically, but something similar and even somewhat crazier. (cl65 amg ftmfw!) Centri's are awesome. It just keeps pulling harder and harder until redline, doesn't matter what kinda car it is in....even if the car isn't as fast as it feels, it still feels fast and that's all i care about and i think deep down thats what most of you care about. So you might run 3-4 tenths behind one of the turbo guys maybe even a bit more, but you will save some cash and have probably just as much fun. fun is what it's all about, not trying to impress others, remember that guys or you will always end up unhappy...someone will always be WAAAAAAAAAAAY faster than you.

Mikey851

Good post . That's how I feel too. Of course, if I'm going for competition I would step my game up if the time/money is right; but for just having fun I love a car that just plain pulls hard.

I have driven an E63 AMG Wagon; it runs sub 5 second 0 to 60mph times (4.6 seconds) and they run mid 12 second quarter miles haha. The things pulls and doesn't stop pulling until it hits the "American governor" haha. The thing will do over 160mph if you let it. It's funny how fast a stock wagon can be. You have to love it when a customer comes in and complains of lack of power at highway speeds .

1gmfanatik

I have to agree that this sounds like a damn good idea. Not just because of more efficient power gains, but because of their being less heat to deal with, that means longer motor life (IF tuned correctly. lol) and more power with less strain on internals and what-not.

Our motors are capable of some very nice numbers without changing out internal parts. From my understanding, we shouldn't even have any head gasket issues either if the heat dispersion is kept down, which it would be drastically reduced with this swap. Cobra HE, and Dual Pass and you as far as heat goes, everything should be gravy.

Speed Mafia

Well the name of the game here is to get you guys more options! Also we have been crunching numbers and we feel the band will be from 3200 to 7100 rpm! so as the rpm and boost climb the harder she will pull and the faster you will slam throught the rpm!

so sure if you ran someone from 3000rpm then a roots will get a jump but as it dies down the procharger will be coming on strong and when that shift point hits you will drop down into your boost and power band!
Some post to get it done ASAP again i will get pics here shortly mock up will be here and bracket is done just need to test fit it for clearances

Also one thing you guys have to remember is the piping from the HEad unit to the TB will be very short cause we do not have to go to a FMIC and then back to the TB....it will be going from Charger to TB and you know short piping = fast boosting pressures!

1gmfanatik

Keep up the good work Speed Mafia..I'm always happy to hear that there are people out there still trying to hook us up. The more products the better, especially if it's going to be more efficient and bring better power gains then what we're rollin with now.

elecblue06

iTrader: (1)

Goo Speed Mafia!!!