So he did.

 

No clue i havent seen it stated for sure he tuned the car and id he did and the owner knew it was an aggressive tune and beat on it like mr b has already said he did then i dont see how this is the tuners fault, name of the title ahould be changes to dont run on an aggressive tune and beat the **** out of it.

 

James, did you tune this HHR in question?

 

If the purpose of this thread was to spread knowledge about tuning, the title should be changed to something more akin to that.

mud slinging and finger pointing was bound to come up...

And if either was the case... there is a section dedicated to tuning on this forum...

 

Take your own advice

 

Worth reiterating

 

If a customer told you they wanted 35* and a 14.7 afr you would never touch the car.
If you knew that this right here could/would happen and the customer still wanted it you should have walked away. That's a matter of ethics.

YOU are the tuner. YOU have the final say. You do NOT do what the customer says they want down to the t if you know you shouldn't!

 

you should have walked away a 12.5 afr isent an eggressive afr its a russian chernobyl in the making as it has been said YOU have to say when its enough You have to make the call You control the out come of the car and set the playing field


one of the differences between a good tuner and a great tuner is knowing when to say no and walk away


it was never intended to be a mudslinging but to get tuners to to offer up their opinions on tuning and hopefully some advice now if all this does is to get people to start questioning the person who is doing their tuning and to change how some tuners tune then it has accomplished something and something is better then nothing

 

This; I have many cars that Area tuned, from back in 2007, all are still going strong, race cars, street cars, turbos, supercharged and normally aspirated. Same for SSKev. Good tuners are hard to find, good tuners dont tune cars with mechanical issues, and good tuners dont have the sort of issues that Mr. Belvedere was talking about in the OP.

 

They is a difference between living on the edge and something that will just not work. I think this is the case of a customer requesting a tune that is on the edge already and then beating it too much.

 

Good point John
This situation aside, maybe this will at least get ppl to realize tha they do need to question their tuner, no matter who it is. This is your car on the line. Make sure you know exactly what your getting in to and what the expected out one is.
On the same note, tuners need to know their customers well. The power is in your hands of what will happen, and it is your responsibility to tune the car for its intended use. And if you push it too far, I'm sorry, it's your fault.

If someone told me they wanted a 12.5 and 25* on a gas lsj I would simply have to say I cannot do that for you. Because it would be unethical of me to do so.

 

same here

also about abuse
I had my car on pump gas, no meth, 23psi and 21 degrees timing 11.4 afr @440whp Beat the ever living **** out of it on a daily basis. Pulled the motor after 2 years and bearing still looked new.
current motor has well over 100k miles on it, 27 degrees timing, e85 m62@17.5 psi and have been beating the ballls off the car every day, (put at least 60k miles on it like this) and she still runs like a champ.
hell even look at infe's car 27psi 6262 billet turbo, E85 17 degrees of timing, cams and valve springs only. Car is in the low 500whp range on a completely stock bottom end. Has been well over 400whp for about 3 years now and if it could keep a trans in the car, would be perfectly reliable (it was his daily driver until a few months ago.)

it's all in the tune.


remember back in the day when people kept blowing up at 260whp saying these cars couldn't take more than 300whp
well me, area and 06black proved that wrong and started our own little hp war. Only one motor let go (wasn't mine until the built one lol). and we were all making in the 400whp reliably on stock bottom ends. I even had mezz's car running 32-34psi on a gt3076 on pump gas with meth and 16 degrees timing on completely stock everything (daily tune was 26psi) and that motor is still alive and kicking (made 481 or something close to that)

 

This right here is my point. If that is what happened then this is sad. A great tuner, he'll even a mediocre tuner with decent ethics, should have said no.

 

 

Agreed, when it's tuning time you get what I give you lol.
I can pretty much tell from looking over a car how it's driven, and by the age of the owner is how aggressive I get. Unless you a close personal friend that understands the risks involved in pushing a motor way beyond it's intended limits, I set you up pretty conservatively. You'll pick up power and better driveability, but your not going to make the peak power available.

also to people the disable the safety measures, ie boost reduction with iat's and afr adjustment per temps, that's a no good. They are there for a reason, and what helps the car stay alive when it's real cold or got out (don't want to say how many cars I"ve seen with others tunes that had that stuff pretty much disabled).

actually yeah., I"m kinda hungry

 

This place has turned into a witch hunt lately, its a damn shame to see someone treated this way because a customer demanded a tune that was pushing the limits and then beat on it with 5th gear pulls according to what james posted but people ignore the responsibility of the owner of the car. At the end of the day its his car and he pays the bill for it so he has to take that responsibility for what he did to it.

 

for what he did too it or the tooooner?

 

and I"m not pointing fingers, don't know the guy and could care less really about the cobalt community anymore. I'm just stating facts of thing we've done and seen.

 

what an insult! The cobalt community is the smartest group of people out of all car communities....

 

thanks for making me spit out my coffee

 

Imagine what it'd be like if these hall of famers were still around and pushing the car even further.. Instead were stuck with a bunch of wanna be tooners and people that cram money down ZZP's throat and tell them to build it.

 

they dont stick around due to the immense amount of tards in this platform. such as the guy who made a thread the other day asking if an srt4 motor can just bolt right in. On s2ki or supraforums or any actual informative forum, you would be banned just for asking that

 

12.5 Afr is and (bomb Afr) it's actually richer then most lnf tunes people do. Blues car? That's not even a argument. Finger are pointed and its stupid as hell. I mean if someone's meth kit ***** up there are only little factoring I can do. Which I did, and his meth kit did mess up. Along that I have all the proof needed for his car. This hhr, if you treat your car like ****, in return you get **** for it. He asked for a tune that had little to no holding back. I literally have a 1 hr speech lol. Telling him this and that. I told him to get a Egt pyro gauge, interceptor which I doubt he got. But what I do know for a fact is what he did and how he treated his car. If a customer asks me for something totally idiotic like a wot of 14 and 30+lbs I of course wouldn't do this. But 24/25lbs no ramp, 15* (which isn't that aggressive) and his Afr. Depending on how you drive it is how long it'll last of course. The choice was the kids, literally "kid". I do what the customer asks, I have my say but if they say I want more ill give it to a point.


Put it like so, this is easy to understand. Say you tune a Lsj turbo swap, 25lbs 93 gt3076. Stock block and etc 110k miles
He gets on it and spikes to 30+ lbs because a malfunction wastegate. Now the factors you can go in and attempt to help are minimal if any for this. He blows up, now people will say omg its the tune. When in fact there was nothing to do with the tune, and then people will argue that it was to aggressive and it was to close to the point of breaking "which caused te blow up". I'm sorry to say but a tuners job isn't to tune a car for a failure of the wastegate . It's called maintance.

 

Personally I think that if a customer says they want something specific it should be the tuners job to give that person the pro's and con's of doing so. Obviously if its COMPLETELY stupid then the tuner should walk away. For example: If somebody wants to go solo skydiving for the first time. Goes to the instructer. He says "Just so you know, this is dangerous and you COULD die". Then the newb-diver jumps...and dies. Is it the instructors fault (granted he taught him everything correctly). NOPE. If the instructor instantly walked away saying "NOPE...it COULD go wrong"...then guess what, nobody would go skydiving ever.
Sweet analogy is sweet lol

Basically what im saying is that i think there needs to be a correlation between the owner and the tuner to come to a good tune. If a guy wants an aggressive tune (to maybe go for a stock turbo highest hp record or something)...then by all means, he should get that. But he should also know the consequences and should not blame the tuner for when it blows up.

 

That is all fine and dandy and I agree with the wastegate thing, but that's not what happened here. There was no mechanical failure to blame.
You seem to have a habit of using examples that have nothing to do with the issue at hand in an attempt to explain fault away from yourself.

If you really spent an hour telling this guy it was a bad idea, then you were fully aware of it. And if after an hour he still wanted it anyway, they you should have said obviously this guy doesn't get it and told him no. Of after an hr lecture he didn't get then obviously he didn't understand what was going on.
The thing is, I think you could be great. But you don't listen, you don't take blame, and you pop off constantly.