5th gear, uphill, at 55mph**

Although i see your point, ^^^ that is not good for an engine

 

This isn't a very good example. The HHR owner should have been a coherent, logical adult that's capable of making decisions if the proper information and warnings have been given to him. A 3 year old is not capable of that.

Unless you're saying that the HHR owner is a child and that's why he blew up his motor , then yeah CCSS3 was irresponsible because he tuned a child's car. He wasn't capable of coherent, logical decisions so CCSS3 should not have tuned him. I guess I'm disappointed that children own cars as awesome as mine

 

My meth never failed...

 

Uh ohhhhhhhhhhhh!
Now we're pointing fingers at the meth kit!

 

Blue have u torn down the engine anymore? U planning a build yet?

 

He said his compressor wheel broke off and chunks flew in the intake

 

Haven't torn it down anymore no. I'm storing it at a buddies shop who has a hoist so motor removal and install will be much easier. As for my build I plan to go with Darton sleeves, Diamond pistons .100" over, neutral balance shafts, 78lb valve springs, arp head bolts and get the head ported and polished

 

unfortunately, the vast majority of car owners, ANY PLATFORM, high performance or not, could be likened to a child, in terms of the amount of understanding they actually have about what's going on inside their engine...I need only cite one example here on CSS to illustrate my point-- the widespread notion that "a little bit of backpressure is needed for best performance" This is absolutely false, there are PILES of supporting science, and physics to support this, and yet, the stupidity persists.

It is the parent's job to educate at the same time as protect the child, though sheltering a kid from the facts can do as much harm as anything.

This is precisely why I asked the questions earlier in the thread that I did-- how many of you tuners take the time to educate your customers? How many of you take it as a personal responsibilty to protect your customer and their investment?

I liken the argument " I told him it was bad, but he still wanted it, so I gave it to him" back to children again, with "daddy, can I try some heroin?"

"no son "

"why not?"

"because it's bad for you"

"but I want to try it"

"uh, ok, go ahead, but I warned you"

the tuner can deny personal responsibilty, but come on....

 

difference is a child doesn't know better. somebody owning an HHR SS SHOULD know better. If not, then lesson learned eh?

 

"should" is the key word there.

 

You stated it failed that once. I wasn't saying it failed which was why it broke the sleeve lol. I was just giving a example of any thing can happen.

 

This simply CANNOT be assumed. Just because the car owner is an adult does NOT mean they will take the personal responsibility to educate themselves.

 

Owner of the hhr is a kid, his parents owned it before him. He was paying them for it.

So basically point here is don't tune a kid? Sorry to say most cobalt owners are kids. Some are respectful and others at not. In this instance he was irresponsible and hopefully learned his lesson to be more respectful to his vehicle and not kill it.

I explain on why not tos and why tos when tuning everyone. I explain in detail what can happen and why if they go a certain route. So if a kid thinks he can be responsible for a aggressive tune then let him. It's not my place to tell someone what they want. If its to overboard I can say yes or no and I will. But in this instance the kid stated he can handle it. Apparently not....
This platform that we are talking about is the ecotec lnf, which I've hit 500s,400s, and made 440whp on the bnr, 400 on 27lbs on pump gas on the bnr with a custom manifold I designed with a vendor, (dynoed yesterday). 501whp on pump has on 30lbs on a 5857, 440 on 25lbs 5857, and so many more... Who else has? Zzp? Pwerks? All I've seen are these vendors hit these type of numbers and that's it.. And all still run and have been. I have tuned lnfs when we first got the beta to tune them and still running. Same with Lsjs and other vehicles i have tuned with almost 200k on the odometer. It's all about how you respect your car... If your a *******. Then it's gonna happen plain and simple ago stock or built, stock tune or full aggressive tune.

 

I'm not saying "don't tune a kid"

good on you for attempting to educate, I get the impression that not all would want to, or try to

hopefully the kid will learn a lesson. More likely, with today's trend toward lack of personal responsibility, he'll just blame you.

You just can't absolve yourself from all blame in this case. Yes, you gave the kid what he thought he wanted, and yes, it's his decision to whip the **** out of the car, and yes, he's an adult, and yes, hopefully he learned a lesson and it won't happen again,BUT...

even if it's only a tiny bit, some of the blame lands squarely on your shoulders for allowing this to happen. Look at those bearings-- that is the PERFECT example of an irresponsible tune. that is RAMPANT detonation.

 

Ahhh gotcha

 

God forbid a kid buy hptuners and they mess their car up.... Hptuners would be held responsible for selling them something that allowed them to destroy their car

My car conservative tuned but I monitor my afr and kr when I make a pass. Why do you think we all have these gauges in our cars. Just for looks? No matter who tunes us we still monitor our cars to make sure. Does your tuner ask you for a checkup log or you send one? Why?to make sure everything ok. Why? Cause anything can happen aggressive tune or not no matter who tunes you. Who out here tunes a car then walks away cause their tune is so bad ass ....so great that it needs no check up? Tell me plz if that tuner is in here.........................I bet there is no hands.

knowledge is power. That is the key here. Someone asked for an aggressive tune, they got forwarned ...they said its ok ...they got what they ask for. What did they do to make sure they was good?....to make sure they didnt end up in the situation they was warned about? How did they mitigated the risk they accepted? Funny no one want to answer that. oh that's right he shouldn't ...what was I thinking.


I called gm about putting in my race clutch and they told me look we can install it but we not responsible to anything that happens because of that clutch being installed. I said I know and I understand . Hmmmmm sounds familiar

 

Guns don't kill people,

people kill people

Who is responsible if you load the gun, **** it, and hand it to someone who is suicidal?

Not the gun or the bullet.

 

The person who pulled the trigger IMHO...but anyways

What I can see after these 9+ pages is that everything is a choice. I think that if it is YOUR car, YOU have the choice to decide what YOU want to do with it. Yes James can say well no I don't think thats a good choice, but at the end of the day it's not his car, it is the person who wanted the aggressive tune. Yes there is a certain responsibility that you need to have as a tuner, but that goes both ways. The guy chose a path that was on the edge so he can't be mad with what happened in the end. There is a difference if James was loading destructive tunes on everyones car but he is not. He gives the customer what they want and tells them the in's and out's of what is needed for the car to last. But to each their own, that's just my opinion on the matter. Hopefully whoever's car it is that blew up learned a lesson and get's the car fixed so they can have fun again.

 

Like i said im not gonna argue with anyone. No point...... His tune didnt have that much timing. The detonation was caused by his "romping on it 24/7 and fuel. Some people say fuel wont cause this.. Ill laugh at ther face and give them alot of proof on the facts of our winter fuels.. BP sent out bad fuel to indianapolis. a few of my cars got it. Two wouldnt start and had to get towed. Removed the fuel and put fresh fuel in and bam good... The other guys car started but kr everywhere, and his tune was only running 13* lnf and 22lbs. He brought the car home, and did the same, removed all the fuel. Put some fresh **** in and it had 0kr and no issues. Bp also sent some checks out and fuel cards lol..here is some proof BP recalls bad gasoline in Indiana, but after $1,200 repair bills for some drivers | Motoramic - Yahoo! Autos

. If this kid had to much timing i would have known when i tuned it.... .. Put it like so, i run more timing 17*-18* on 93 and dont romp on it all the time and ive been alive for quite some time. Alot of my tuned lnfs run more timing then this kid, but the fact is heat causes detonation. I gave the car negative adders for the higher iat1s but that doesnt compensate much for 2s. So the fact the kid was irresponsible by being a kid with a mechanical engine romping on it and treating the car like a toy, the car did get detonation more then liekly from the heat he was giving it. Also along those lines, high load gear pulls and low rpms.

 

All the gun stores/shows I been too never asked me and my buddies If we was suicidal or even said hey guys you look suicidal. We could have been but they would never know. There have been a couple security forces airman on base that try to committ suicide and they was handed loaded weapons everyday. No one saw coming. Not even the people they work with day and day out .

 

****

 

Damn! Not exactly the analogy I had in my mind, but... I concede your point within the analogy.

 

^ I got bad gas from shell about 3 or 4 weeks ago and sent james a long with kr and he informed me it was most likey the gas in the area so I got new gas and kr was gone. James knows what the he is doing when it comes to tuning. The kid destroyed his car by beating on it everyday and mr b should be a shamed to even post this bullshit like its james fault. My mom raised me to be personally responsible for my decision so I dont blame others for my bad choices it seems like some of you where raised to point the finger tho.

 

I swear James must have to hire someone to carry his sack around all day because you guys sure have stretched it out

 

Its called taking a stand for whats right.