Want to run an E67 computer in your LSJ powered car? Its easy!
11-20-2013, 10:27 PM
#1
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Want to run an E67 computer in your LSJ powered car? Its easy!
Wayyyyyyyy to much time was spent researching all of this on my end. Just tonight I found out exactly how easy it is. Read on young padiwan...
The stock LSJ computer is called the P12, and is "almost" supported by HP Tuners and EFI Live. I say almost because it does not have enough tables unlocked within these programs to PROPERLY tune them. I know for a fact that the P12 computer has all the tables needed, but there was bigger and better things that came out as aftermarket tuning companies were developing the P12...IE the E67. The P12 was never used to run a V8 engine even though it has the hardware capabilities. The E67, however, did run the best, biggest, and newest V8 engines at the time. If you were one of these companies, your time was better spent on the E67, and not the P12.
So, the E67 computer is very much mapped out in all major tuning programs, and has just about every table you would need for any modification, as well as custom 2 and 3 bar operating systems.
And.....here is the kicker.....it was also used to control the LE5. The 2.4 Ecotec motor in the Cobalt. That means this exact same OS can be used to run the LSJ with a couple little changes.
To run an E67, you have to repin the ECU plugs, swap one sensor, and change one hex value. That is it. Seriously. Oh and tune it.
Before you call bullshit.....read on....
Both the LE5 and the LSJ use a 58X reluctor wheel. People will say they are clocked differently, and they are correct. With my rough measurements, looks like the LE5 low resolution pulse(the 2 missing teeth part) is 15 degrees ATDC(after top dead cylinder), and the LSJ is 15 degrees BTDC(before top dead cylinder).
Most people who do the LE5 engine swap have the reluctor wheel reclocked so it will work with the LSJ P12 PCM (The P12 is the last powertrain control module GM made. This means it can control both the engine and the transmission. After the P12. GM moved to the ECU/TCU combination. Engine Control Unit and Transmission Control Unit. The E67 is an ECU.)
I bet most people did not know that there is a value in the ECU/PCM calibration that defines this low resolution pulse. All you have to do is change it to match your reluctor. Thats it. Since no major tuning program provides this function, it will have to be changed in raw hex, with an un-encrypted bin file from your computer. This in itself is not easy to accomplish. But when I finish my tuning program, it will be there. But for now if you need it done, just contact me and I can do it.
How about some pictures to explain this better? And some references just in case anyone wants to question me. There is always someone who calls bullshit....
Here is the LSJ reluctor laid on top of the LE5 reluctor. Courtesy of Tjolley. See the spot missing the teeth? That is the low resolution point. Each tooth is 6 degrees out of a 360 degree rotation.
And this screenshot is from something you can consider the holy grail of tuning. Thou shall not ask kinda thing. Just in case someone has doubts that it can be done.
And here is this value highlighted in hex....this is a 2007 SS bin file I have open..
And someone already did the legwork for me on the pinout change. I do not take credit for this file, and it may have mistakes in it. I used it for my E67 swap and everything seemed to work fine.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4q...it?usp=sharing
Other than the simple change in the calibration and repining and changing of the connectors, only thing you have to do is swap out the crank sensor to the LE5, as it is a hall effect sensor, and the LSJ one is not. And it will have to be spaced out, and I think someone makes a spacer for it already...maybe ZZP?
More rambling ahead as I think of more...
The stock LSJ computer is called the P12, and is "almost" supported by HP Tuners and EFI Live. I say almost because it does not have enough tables unlocked within these programs to PROPERLY tune them. I know for a fact that the P12 computer has all the tables needed, but there was bigger and better things that came out as aftermarket tuning companies were developing the P12...IE the E67. The P12 was never used to run a V8 engine even though it has the hardware capabilities. The E67, however, did run the best, biggest, and newest V8 engines at the time. If you were one of these companies, your time was better spent on the E67, and not the P12.
So, the E67 computer is very much mapped out in all major tuning programs, and has just about every table you would need for any modification, as well as custom 2 and 3 bar operating systems.
And.....here is the kicker.....it was also used to control the LE5. The 2.4 Ecotec motor in the Cobalt. That means this exact same OS can be used to run the LSJ with a couple little changes.
To run an E67, you have to repin the ECU plugs, swap one sensor, and change one hex value. That is it. Seriously. Oh and tune it.
Before you call bullshit.....read on....
Both the LE5 and the LSJ use a 58X reluctor wheel. People will say they are clocked differently, and they are correct. With my rough measurements, looks like the LE5 low resolution pulse(the 2 missing teeth part) is 15 degrees ATDC(after top dead cylinder), and the LSJ is 15 degrees BTDC(before top dead cylinder).
Most people who do the LE5 engine swap have the reluctor wheel reclocked so it will work with the LSJ P12 PCM (The P12 is the last powertrain control module GM made. This means it can control both the engine and the transmission. After the P12. GM moved to the ECU/TCU combination. Engine Control Unit and Transmission Control Unit. The E67 is an ECU.)
I bet most people did not know that there is a value in the ECU/PCM calibration that defines this low resolution pulse. All you have to do is change it to match your reluctor. Thats it. Since no major tuning program provides this function, it will have to be changed in raw hex, with an un-encrypted bin file from your computer. This in itself is not easy to accomplish. But when I finish my tuning program, it will be there. But for now if you need it done, just contact me and I can do it.
How about some pictures to explain this better? And some references just in case anyone wants to question me. There is always someone who calls bullshit....
Here is the LSJ reluctor laid on top of the LE5 reluctor. Courtesy of Tjolley. See the spot missing the teeth? That is the low resolution point. Each tooth is 6 degrees out of a 360 degree rotation.
And this screenshot is from something you can consider the holy grail of tuning. Thou shall not ask kinda thing. Just in case someone has doubts that it can be done.
And here is this value highlighted in hex....this is a 2007 SS bin file I have open..
And someone already did the legwork for me on the pinout change. I do not take credit for this file, and it may have mistakes in it. I used it for my E67 swap and everything seemed to work fine.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4q...it?usp=sharing
Other than the simple change in the calibration and repining and changing of the connectors, only thing you have to do is swap out the crank sensor to the LE5, as it is a hall effect sensor, and the LSJ one is not. And it will have to be spaced out, and I think someone makes a spacer for it already...maybe ZZP?
More rambling ahead as I think of more...
Last edited by lwrs10; 11-20-2013 at 11:18 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
11-20-2013, 10:41 PM
#2
im intrigued.
i read on hpt forums that you had done this and i have been wondering if you would share. between this, your injector information and the hopefully the soon to be unlocked tables that hpt never did, youve been a busy guy. and its all gonna benefit the community
i read on hpt forums that you had done this and i have been wondering if you would share. between this, your injector information and the hopefully the soon to be unlocked tables that hpt never did, youve been a busy guy. and its all gonna benefit the community
11-20-2013, 11:05 PM
#7
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Thread Starter
im intrigued.
i read on hpt forums that you had done this and i have been wondering if you would share. between this, your injector information and the hopefully the soon to be unlocked tables that hpt never did, youve been a busy guy. and its all gonna benefit the community
i read on hpt forums that you had done this and i have been wondering if you would share. between this, your injector information and the hopefully the soon to be unlocked tables that hpt never did, youve been a busy guy. and its all gonna benefit the community
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11-20-2013, 11:15 PM
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See first post. I was adding information as fast as my never learned how to type self could poke at the keyboard.
Me too.....sometimes I think I am possessed by some dead engineer or something. This crap only comes out of my brain after a couple fine crafted beers.
Me too.....sometimes I think I am possessed by some dead engineer or something. This crap only comes out of my brain after a couple fine crafted beers.
11-20-2013, 11:20 PM
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11-21-2013, 12:29 AM
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so out of curiosity
what kind of communications does the E67 like to see via the BCM and low/high speed GM can communications?
would you be able to get those to play nice with the older class 2 serial communications on an older platform, like say, the jbody?
or, get the E67 to be happy running a drivetrain free of ABS and traction control?
in short, my question is... how critical is the E67 communication with the delta BCM? does it freak out if that is severed? I'd love to do an LNF swap into a Jbody or have an E67 running the engine.
what about taking away it's throttle by wire controls and making the TPS values passive?
what kind of communications does the E67 like to see via the BCM and low/high speed GM can communications?
would you be able to get those to play nice with the older class 2 serial communications on an older platform, like say, the jbody?
or, get the E67 to be happy running a drivetrain free of ABS and traction control?
in short, my question is... how critical is the E67 communication with the delta BCM? does it freak out if that is severed? I'd love to do an LNF swap into a Jbody or have an E67 running the engine.
what about taking away it's throttle by wire controls and making the TPS values passive?
11-21-2013, 12:40 AM
#18
so out of curiosity
what kind of communications does the E67 like to see via the BCM and low/high speed GM can communications?
would you be able to get those to play nice with the older class 2 serial communications on an older platform, like say, the jbody?
or, get the E67 to be happy running a drivetrain free of ABS and traction control?
in short, my question is... how critical is the E67 communication with the delta BCM? does it freak out if that is severed? I'd love to do an LNF swap into a Jbody or have an E67 running the engine.
what about taking away it's throttle by wire controls and making the TPS values passive?
what kind of communications does the E67 like to see via the BCM and low/high speed GM can communications?
would you be able to get those to play nice with the older class 2 serial communications on an older platform, like say, the jbody?
or, get the E67 to be happy running a drivetrain free of ABS and traction control?
in short, my question is... how critical is the E67 communication with the delta BCM? does it freak out if that is severed? I'd love to do an LNF swap into a Jbody or have an E67 running the engine.
what about taking away it's throttle by wire controls and making the TPS values passive?
Sounds like he can do anything with it really lol.
***** gonna get CRAZY up in dis bitch.
11-21-2013, 12:52 AM
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This is all out of my element really, but wouldn't this make swapping an LSJ or LNF into a base model a lot easier? If the E67 can be used... I need to research some more
Last edited by Disposable-Hero; 11-21-2013 at 01:03 AM.
11-21-2013, 01:05 AM
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It's about to get real.. quick. Hopefully we'll have a running test subject soon. And for the record, upon first hand experience, the LE5 reluctor will not fit an LSJ crank. Just had to try to be sure 