Why no hybrid L61/LSJ builds? - Cobalt SS Network

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Why no hybrid L61/LSJ builds?

Old 01-24-2013, 08:34 AM
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Why no hybrid L61/LSJ builds?

Just wondering why no one over here has done more of these builds. 2.2 built bottom end, with a 2.0 head. Then from there whichever way you want to go TVS or Turbo.

2.2 bottom ends can be found ANYWHERE for cheap, theres a million parts out for them, and can make retarded power. I believe the 2.0 LSJ head is better over the 2.2 head, and a few guys ( PJ ) have actually already done the connection.

Essentially bored out etc, couldnt you theoretically have a 2.5 litre motor?

And wondering why people on other sites have done them, but we being the biggest cobalt forum on the web havnt seen this?

Discuss. Keep it clean and civil.
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:53 AM
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I'm doing a 2.4 LSJ build.
The reason I'm doing a 2.4 is because I got a 2.4 L e5 engine for next to nothing.

The 2.2 was my second choice.
And all you really need to do is buy a crankshaft. Get you a set of 2.2 Eagle rods and diamond pistons. You could probably get all that for about a grand. You can buy 2.2 crankshaft a dime a dozen. 2.2 liter forged pistons are cheap. All you would need to figure out is the reluctor ring clocking. If it is any different than the LSJ.
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:57 AM
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Im just surprised that no one else here is really doing it. You might get one here and there, such as your buid, but why not more? Im not engine savy by any means, and it may require more work than im aware of, or maybe its just cheaper to slap a turbo kit on, make north of 300-low 400s for some people and call it a day?
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:33 AM
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If I had the know how or at least access to detailed information on how I would slap an LSJ head on my L61 I would be all about it. The only issue is the machining of the LSJ top end to fit the L61 would be something I know nothing about.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:38 AM
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I know there is either a 2.2or2.4 bottom/2.0 head turbo running around Chicago. Complete sleeper, still looks like a base. He was at CED last year for awhile.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:51 AM
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You can swap all the heads and blocks around on all of them..
So you can put in LSJ had on an LE5 block. LSJ head on a L 61 block. LSJ had on a lnf block.
Now the PCMs more and wire harness is another story.
Then you just need to figure out the reluctor wheel clocking
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:05 AM
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Mrb and i have spent time talkin about this.
Im sure he will pop i here
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:33 AM
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I posted this up a once upon a time but it never got sticky status I found the info n jbody forums
The next step in ecotec hybrids (revised) - Performance Forum - j-body.org - the jbody organization

OEM ecotecs:

LE5 Ecotec

bore = 88mm
compression height = 28mm
wrist pin diameter = 20mm
stroke = 98mm
rod length = 143.7386mm
rod ratio = 1.46:1
total bottom end height = 220.74mm


LSJ Ecotec

bore = 86mm
compression height = 30.86mm
wrist pin diameter = 23mm
stroke = 86mm
rod length = 145.5mm
rod ratio = 1.69:1
total bottom end height = 219.35mm


L61 Ecotec

bore = 86mm
compression height = 26.75mm
wrist pin diameter = 20mm
stroke = 94.6mm
rod length = 146.5mm
rod ratio = 1.54:1
total bottom end height = 220.55

Now, here are the revised hybrid options. Not a lot of movement is available, but with some custom parts you can build a pretty sweet ecotec engine without sacrificing too much displacement.

2.1 custom rod/ NA
Ingredients:
-LE5 block
-LSJ crank
-LE5 pistons
-Custom Rods (identical to LE5 rods, only 149.5mm in length)

bore = 88mm
compression height = 28mm
wrist pin diameter = 20mm
stroke = 86mm
rod length = 149.5mm
rod ratio = 1.73:1
total bottom end height = 220.5mm

NOTE: I say the above combination is ideal for n/a because if you're using factory LE5 pistons, compression will be up near the 11:1 range if not slightly higher. You CAN use LE5 pistons that lower compression, but this is my reasoning behind saying this would be better for n/a.. plus the rod ratio is a bit higher than the next variation.

2.1 custom piston/ turbo
Ingredients:
-LE5 block
-L61 rods
-LSJ crank
-Custom pistons (Identical to L61, except comp. height = 31mm, and bore = 88mm)

bore = 88mm
compression height = 31mm
wrist pin diameter = 20mm
stroke = 86mm
rod length = 146.5mm
rod ratio = 1.70:1
total bottom end height = 220.5mm

NOTE: I say this one is ideal for turbo because since you are getting custom pistons, you can alter the dome/dish to achieve any compression you want.
Furthermore, this would be a good combination if you have L61 eagle rods hanging around that have not been used yet, and decided to change direction and build an LE5 based engine instead, but still want to use already acquired parts.

which one would be more cost effective depends on what parts you have laying around or have access to, as well as the cost of custom pistons vs. custom rods. Both situations I plan on looking in to tomorrow afternoon.

the reason I'm revising this, is because I recently discovered that the LE5 rods have a tapered end, and the LE5 pistons also have a taper on the inside of their wristpin.

because of this taper, you CANNOT mix LE5 and L61 pistons/rods with one another. GM most likely did this to prevent installation error... or something.

the crank journals and rod journals however across all variants are the same dimensions, so swapping cranks is a no brainer... ASSUMING you take into account that the LSJ crank needs to use an LSJ flywheel and clutch. LE5 and L61 use the same flywheel and clutch, so mixing and matching there is easy.


So NO pistons can be swapped from one ecotec to another
-LE5 wrist pin is 20mm, but taper slot for rod/piston interface
-L61 wrist pin is 20mm, straight slot for rod/piston interface
-LSJ wrist pin is 23mm, straight slot for rod/piston interface
-LNF wrist pin is 23mm, ????slot for rod/piston interface, and also has direct injection dome shape

so mixing and matching IS limited, but you can make some cool 2.1L ecotec combinations using an LE5 block as a good starting point.

this will give you the advantage of having a larger bore (88mm vs 86mm), while retaining lower piston speeds and better rod ratio of the shorter stroke ecotecs (1.70:1 using L61 rods, and 1.73:1 using custom rods are pretty damn good, especially for those looking to build all motor cars... hint hint)
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:34 AM
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Pj from jbo seems to know it well. He had an l61 lsj turbo
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by 07MetallicSC View Post
Im just surprised that no one else here is really doing it. You might get one here and there, such as your buid, but why not more? Im not engine savy by any means, and it may require more work than im aware of, or maybe its just cheaper to slap a turbo kit on, make north of 300-low 400s for some people and call it a day?
I will be building a spare engine soon and I may do this

Last edited by 574; 04-07-2013 at 06:56 AM.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:45 AM
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:47 AM
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it would be nice if we could but I don't know if the start points are the same on the relucter and it isent removable on the l61 as for head swapping you swap a lsj head onto a 2.2 you just need to swap the cams in and do a little welding the sportcompact build book 3rd edtion covers this I know back in the day that I guy in new York did a blower swap on his 2.2 and on the stock pulley he made 250hp and he was tuning it with an aem piggy back and he was using a tranny cooler for a h.e.

GDS

Last edited by mrbelvedere; 01-24-2013 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:59 AM
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I know of a 2.5 hybrid, but that's all I can comment on. Brought me to bring this topic up
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by 07MetallicSC View Post
I know of a 2.5 hybrid, but that's all I can comment on. Brought me to bring this topic up
you cant crack the flood gate door and not expect a flood so spill more superfly

GDS

Last edited by mrbelvedere; 01-24-2013 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:06 AM
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There actually is a lot more people out there then you think. I got a LAP block with lsj internals and lsj valves and springs. Along with a custom turbo kit with a presicion 58/57
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:06 AM
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click
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by LS FUN View Post
There actually is a lot more people out there then you think. I got a LAP block with lsj internals and lsj valves and springs. Along with a custom turbo kit with a presicion 58/57
are you running the crank also lsj that is

GDS

Last edited by mrbelvedere; 01-24-2013 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by LS FUN View Post
There actually is a lot more people out there then you think. I got a LAP block with lsj internals and lsj valves and springs. Along with a custom turbo kit with a presicion 58/57
Who else? Get them on here. Start a thread showcasing your build. More people need and want to see this
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by mrbelvedere View Post
you cant crack the flood gate door and not expect a flood so spill more superfly
He's on here. Hopefully he chimes in
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:15 AM
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Interesting. Sucks it isn't straight convert.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:37 AM
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perked my interest click...
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:37 PM
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hmm interesting, as you pointed out building a 2.2 bottom end is cheaper.
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mrbelvedere View Post
are you running the crank also lsj that is

GDS
Yeah i am running the lsj crank. You have to with the lsj pistons and rods.
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by LS FUN View Post
Yeah i am running the lsj crank. You have to with the lsj pistons and rods.
actualy you don't have to run the crank to run the lsj rods and pistons one of the hop ups people did years ago was to put lsj rods and pistons only in a 2.2 but by running the lsj crank your no longer a 2.2 your a 2.0

did you have to modify the relucter to get it to work
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ThexGovenor View Post
hmm interesting, as you pointed out building a 2.2 bottom end is cheaper.
you can get aftermarket rod and piston combos (weisco and eagle or l.e. and eagle) for 800 or less you just need to mod the flywheel to 6 bolt or get a 6bolt flywheel to lsj clutch specs
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