boricua s/c ss.

does anybody have the zzp stage kit. is it good and reliable. is it better or the same as gm stage 2.

red06SC

OTTS1 > ZZPS2

http://www.ottperformance.com/Cobalt...duct_info.html

Zach06CobaltSC

ottp stage 1 kit > all.

SlowLSJ

ottp stage 1......

boricua s/c ss.

yea that stage kit is hot but it comes with a 2.8 pully. i want a 3.0 or 2.9. has anybody had the zzp kit. is it good like gm stage 2 or do u guy dont recommended it.

also wont that much horsepower hurt my clutch and other internalsbesides getting a heat exanger

lsjwannabe

iTrader: (1)

The clutch is more dependant on your driving habits. As far as internals you won't need them for a long while as long as you treat the car nice.

ShortStack

^^ No. Wont hurt a thing generally.

Why do you want higher than a 2.8?

boricua s/c ss.

ive heard that anything larger than a 2.90 will give u problems as for as clutch and axles. what are the 1/4 mile times for this kit estimate. is this the best kit out for what u will get for the $

Zach06CobaltSC

The best kit is the ottp kit, and you are not going to have problems with a 2.8 if you know how to drive. I have a 2.8 and a 35shot and my clutch doesn't slip. The only way you will have problems is if you don't know how to drive and have a ton of wheel hop, stupid kids like that break there trannys right shortstack?

lsjwannabe

iTrader: (1)

You can snap axles and slip clutches on stock power on the stock pulley. If you are worried about snapping axles i would look into our rotated trans mounts. The effectively eliminate wheel hop that your stock mounts allow for. As far as 1/4 mile times some users have gone 13.20's some have gone 14.5's it really depends on the driver and tire setup. For a average driver with street tires you should be able to hit a mid 13. Our kit is hands down the best bang for the buck with out question, vendors with comparable kits charge 500~600.

boricua s/c ss.

iight thanks for the insight. good looking out. i have 65,000 miles on my 05 and i still have my stock clutch in good form. do u mean by people dont know how to drive is when they beat on their cars or when people dont know how to drive stick.

ok so u will also recommened getting a wheel hop solution with this kit. is the ingalls good enough. or i will need the other trans mount along with a heat exchanger

also can our blowers handle this kind of power. isnt it gonna be close to overspinning it.

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

We have not received a single complaint about our stage 2 file. That is something that no other vendor can say currently. An email I just got today:

I got the Stage 2 kit from you and it is great lots of power from stock....

...
P.S. The tune for the Stage 2 is really good!

Thank you!

--This forum is strange in the way that people recommend what they have or what others do. It's like mob mentality. This goes for good things and bad things but overall it's limiting the advancement of a group that should be much, much faster than the average users are this late in the game...

HunterKiller89

iTrader: (1)

i bet OTTP actually hasnt had any complaints with their stg2 file either. No difference to me, as i tune via trifecta, but i know the OTTP tune is regarded as one of the best. I will admit though i havent seen any threads saying ZZPs tune sucks or anything...something i cant say for intense or CA or anyone else selling tunes

Zach06CobaltSC

LOL you're trying to say you have NEVER had a complaint about your stage 2 file...really? I am pretty sure there have been A LOT of complaints about your tunes on these forums lol. I'm not saying I am the one doing the complaining the only thing I complain about is your exhaust department but that's another story. But claiming that EVERYONE is happy with your stage 2 is pushing it a little to far considering I have had people come to me for tunes that have had zzp tunes to begin with lol.

Everyone besides ottp has had a bad rap for there tunes including zzp at one time or another. I can find multiple threads about multiple issues zzp has had with multiple things. I am not bashing zzp by any means, but not EVERYONE is happy with there work or they wouldn't be coming to me for tuning.

Cefaln452

iTrader: (5)

clikc

Zach06CobaltSC

Also the zzp kit includes only up to a 3.0 inch pulley which is a big downfall. The ottp kit WILL make more power then the zzp stage 2 kit, period.

Gabi

hey :P

i would prefer ottp stage 1 i know that you want a 2.9 or a 3.0 but the hp advance that you will have for the ottp will be more.
as for the clutch and axel it all depends on how you drive your car

ps: i like your nick

Zach06CobaltSC

Exactly as Gabi said, the ottp stage 1 kit will have more power and a better tune. No matter what your not going to have a "perfect" tune because its canned, but I can tell you from experience that ottp does have a very good solid tune. I have personally looked over many different ottp tunes and I like the work they do.

Going back to the axle/clutch thing though. As long as you don't have wheel hop you won't break your axle's. If you buy ottperformance's rotated tranny mounts you will never have wheel hop again, even at the track. I highly highly recommend these mounts! As far as the clutch, my stock clutch held up great with over 300whp to it . It all depends on how you drive though and if you know how to drive well and correctly, these clutches aren't bad in the least. However one upgrade I would recommend is the gmpp upgraded clutch kit. For less then 300 dollars this clutch will hold over 300whp guaranteed.

Another thing you should look into is cooling mods. All of us here at cobaltss.net *who know anything*, will HIGHLY recommend methanol injection to you. For starters though try and get another heat exchanger or the gm dual pass end plate with option b. As you can see in my signature I have all of the cooling mods *that are practical* and I absolutely love the methanol injection the most.

Hope this helps boricua s/c ss.

InfraRedline

iTrader: (4)

I have the old zzp stage 3 kit which consited of 42's, a 2.9, and a tune, and of course the belt and plugs and such. I have no complaints about it. I did however switch to an 07 gm stage 2 tune after my dealer wrote the stock tune in the car. The zzp tune wasnt bad by any means. This was last summer though and ive heard their tunes have gotten better since then. That tune definately had more top end power than the gm tune, but the PE multiplier wasnt as smooth. I wouldnt be hesitant to buy from either company, and as stated the OTTP kit will make more power.

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

From 11 days ago on this site "OTTP's tune is not perfect, but it's not that far off either. My setup is very similar to the OP's, however I've been throwing a P0300 since the day I installed everything. At idle I'm rich, but towards the end of the rpm band I'm running very lean and experiencing knock retard. I'm working with a reputable tuner out in my area who is getting details about the Siemens 60# injectors so that he can change adjust the tune. He said his concern is that the injector pulse is too short in OTTP's tune."

Now, I'm not doging on OTT. ZZP gets complaints and everyone is going to. It's the nature of modifying. My point is that you need to be more careful around here with what you quote as gospel. More often than not, people are not posting correct information and it gets spread. Then as I stated, the community suffers.

While it's true that OTT includes larger injectors and a smaller pulley, the statement of it making more power is exactly what I'm talking about. People use capital letters and throw around statements as if they have tested. I guarantee that Zach has not A/B tested our PCMs. You cannot put a 2.8" pulley and injectors on a car with no exhaust or cooling mods and make more power than with a 3.0 because the timing will have to be lower. This is a fact, that we've tested. Not hearsay. Too often things get said around here that just aren't true and then repeated. People say "this is a fact" with really no clue, just a statement trying to emphasize their position. The fact is that the kit comes with larger injectors and a smaller pulley. The opinion is which is better and talking about power depends on a lot more variables. The pricing of the kits is different as well. ZZPs kit is made to be compared to a GM stage 2 kit. Our stage 3 kit is closer to what OTT is selling.

There are many threads like this. The heat exchangers come to mind where people said that this HE was larger and held more water and cooled better than ZZP. Again cited as fact but later proved completely false. Another was the 'fact' that the Mezeire intercooler pump outflowed stock, proven false. The list is long of these types of claims and statements on this board. If someone wants to compare two things, then do it. If you've run both then give an opinion. If you have tested, then post the results. But citing things as facts when you really aren't in a position to know, is the reason Cobalts are running 13's instead of 12s and 11's regularly.

SlowLSJ

i have both ZZP parts and OTT parts on my car.. but tune wise i would go with OTTP one because there closer to me... 2 there easy to get ahold of. it took me 30mins to get someone on the phone over at ZZP, then matt m doesnt really respond to emails. OTTP performance doesnt stock **** that am looking for and want to buy.

Zach06CobaltSC

You want facts how about this.

I have a zzp tune and an ottp stage tune. How about I put them on the dyno and see which one puts out more power. Oh wait I already did and it was the ottp stage tune. If you would like after the new clutch is broken in I will video tape it and put it back on the dyno again and see what happens.

The reason I make claims that its a fact that a 2.8 will make more power then a 3.0 is because it is. If you run your 3.0 and 60lbers against a 2.8 and 60lbers both with the exact same cooling mods, or both with no cooling mods the 2.8 will win. The 2.8 does NOT generate enough heat to put out ridiculous iat2's. So with the timing being equal on both vehicles the car will not pull timing on the 2.8 if the iat2's are not ridiculous.

I don't need to sit here and argue the fact, I will post up a video of the ottp tune out performing the zzp tune. Zoomer if you would like you can even send in a "perfected" tune if you don't think the tune I have is the correct one.

I have both ottp and zzp products on my car also. However I think ottp has higher quality parts and treats there customers better. I have never been mistreated or misinformed by ottp and none of there products have broke on me, I can not say the same for zzp.

"But citing things as facts when you really aren't in a position to know, is the reason Cobalts are running 13's instead of 12s and 11's regularly."

I am glad to know that the reason my friends on this site runs 13s is because of what other people do or do not say are facts. I hope the next time you tell me a fact I go and run 11s.

I have also ran a stage 2 pulley with no cooling mods against a 2.8 pulley. The 2.8 pulley produced more whp then the stage 2 pulley did.

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

Zach, what you don't realize is that you do not know enough to even be posting what you are. First off, the 2.8" pulley should not be run without exhaust and/or cooling mods. You posted "with the exact same cooling mods" right after I said that you can't run the 2.8 w/o cooling mods. So you're changing the discussion to suit your assertion which is a false debate.

Next you discuss the heat generated by the 2.8 with absolutely no data. Nothing about ambient temps, coolant temps, available octane in the area, blower delta T, rpms the engine is spinning to, etc. You just think that because you setup your 1 car a certain way that you know everything there is to know about what's better. Guess what? You don't, which is why I'm saying you need to back off. We tune these cars every day and have to ship parts all over the country in various environments.

Finally you state "with the timing being equal" Again, you want to debate me by loading the debate in your favor. It's a straw man argument because you immediately claim that timing is the same and therefore 2.8 will make more power. Why would the timing be the same? Because you want it to be to have a point, but you don't. Our PCM lowers timing for safety when using smaller pulleys and raises it when using larger pulleys. This has all been dyno tested and it's how I know the max HP will be higher on the 3" given the circumstances that you are trying desperately to change.

Straw man argument: The straw man fallacy is when you misrepresent someone else's position so that it can be attacked more easily, knock down that misrepresented position, then conclude that the original position has been demolished. It's a fallacy because it fails to deal with the actual arguments that have been made.

Zach06CobaltSC

"My point is that you need to be more careful around here with what you quote as gospel"

You just posted that no one here has ever had a problem with your tunes before lol... You should watch what you post because trust me, not everyone is happy with your tunes mate.

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

Again, a straw man argument. Lie about what I said and then knock down your new false assertion and claim a victory. I never said no one here has ever had a problem with our tunes.