I have an idea for my senior project for my mechanical engineering degree of developing independent throttle bodies for the ecotec platform. I have searched and haven't found any in production. I know I can calculate the airflow required and the size the runners need to be. My main question is how is the streetability of ITB's? I have access to all of the machining and flow testing equipment required. I know there wouldn't really be a demand for this but if I could pull off a decent working prototype I think it would be worth it. I think the main issue is figuring out the tuning required and the loss of a common vacuum line hook up.

 

It can't be that bad considering they make them for so many cars. That's all I got.

 

i think you would have to run a standalone computer

 

Im sure you could figure something out. Have you seen what Vauxhall guys have done over in Europe/the UK? I believe its the same engine used in the VX220, just mounted in the rear.
Check this out, Welcome to WEBCON UK Ltd
If you could manufacture an ITB setup, for cheaper than this one, I would definately be interested. I dont know how many others would be though.

 

I dont think a seperate computer for this would be necessary, already have 4 injectors going to the 4 seperate cylinders, you would just need to be able to tune. Really well. lol

 

that would finish off a sick n/a build

 

what about map iat throttle position maf

 

Dont know about the MAP or MAF, Im sure they could be tuned accordingly. There's obviously going to be some problems in getting it to run perfectly, but with anything, put the time and effort in and it can be done. Hondas have been doing it for years, I cant see why we shouldnt be able to.
IAT could have a sensor in one of the runners, no big deal.
TPS would be hooked to the throttle rod/plates just like any other set-up.
Like I said, theyre doing it on Vauxhalls with basically the exact same engine so I cant see why it would be impossible for us.
And yes it would be an awesome na upgrade, have spent many a night thinking about attempting this one lol

 

Youre the ME, you tell us how streetable your ITBs will be

 

i checked out that link and found my self at the forum for those cars another reason for a standalone is the ones with drive by wire for throttle and you have to do a custom cable set up

 

Yea the drive by wire does make it harder, but I mean its not impossible. It could be done, with some serious time invested lol. I havent tried it, yet, but it only takes one person to figure it out.
If you're serious about doing this, I think it would make one hell of a final project

 

Disabling the MAF and running 100% VE would be a good start.

 

Now we're gettin somewhere. I dont have any experience tuning a car so I dont know exactly what to do, but I could weld it all together for you lol

 

Im blown... lol if I had a 2.2 I'd be all over it.

The question is how would you be able to rig up all 4 throttle bodys to work in unison? I'm sure someone with a bit of electrical know how and a diagram of the tb pigtail would know.

 

Well if it wasnt fully done by electronics it would be easier, use one actuator to move the linkage attached to each seperate throttle stack. Should be okay... I think?
http://kinsler.com/NewProducts/Pics/...series_Web.jpg

* just forget the dual fuel rail set-up on that bad boy, unless you wanna get crazy lol

 

I persionaly have helped a few of my buddys out with ITB back when I was still in the Honda, Here are a few things to think about. First there is a way to measure common vacuum of all the ITB to do that you use a Vacume log like so Vacuum Log for 2-4-6-8 Cylinder second you can still use your MAF sensor as long as you have a manifold before the ITBs as seen in the photo here Plenum, Custom 4 Cylinder
The answer to the ITB control question is that all the TBs are conected or linked mechanicaly so if one is open all the others are open aswell a lot of people use a cable drive for ITB control and just add a Throttle Position Sensor TPS-1008 Throttle Stop & Cam Kit But im sure if you took apart the vlave control device on the stock TB you could rig it to control the ITBs
Hope I was able to help

 

that plenum a awesome idea

 

i am still in the idea phase. if i can get my professor and group to agree to it i will attempt to make a prototype. if i can get it running and tuned properly i think i can see some huge gains. and it would definitely help out the n/a community. fair warning tho with the way the class works i wouldnt have a working prototype until the fall semester. i know its possible and i think it would be a sweet project. i have ideas as to how to get the throttle bodies to be synced off a single motor. its really simple actually. i will definitely be asking for some help from this and other forums if i can get this idea approved.

 

Parts and Accessories

http://www.kinsler.com/handbook39.html

 

good luck looking forward to finished prototype

 

streetability is going to be all in the tune. I'm surprised you're not just going to work on your schools FSAE car for your senior project.

Now for the tune, I suggest you get an AEM EMS4 stand alone and set it up to run alpha-n at idle and experiment with running alpha-n or speed density for the rest of the rev band. You will not be able to run maf unless you put the velocity stacks off each tb in an airbox, and its questionable if you would be able to get the required transient response. Spark timing is going to be crucial to getting good drive ability especially in the crossover between idle and your normal fuel map. Getting closed loop working correctly is also questionable at best, you should be able to do this.

Optionally if you were going to do this you would have a team of 3 people, one focusing in manufacturing, one in fluid design, and a 3rd in controls. Though who am I kidding, I'm part of a 5 man team trying to make a racecar from scratch in a year.

Oh yeah, you'll need EGT probes in all of the primaries in order to make sure its actually fueling evenly.

 

Good luck with the prototype, hopefully it all works out. As long as it takes, Im going to keep an eye on this thread. If you need a test car or anything let me know.

 

my main problem right now is that i am a poor college student. I can get alot of stuff done for free because of some contacts i have. But i am at a loss for knowledge of tuning so trying to get that done is an issue. like i said i am still in the idea/ concept phase. and trying to get it off the ground is going to be really tough.

 

Let find another idea for this guy.

 

I'm open to other ideas for my project. It has to be something that hasn't been done or improvement on an existing idea.