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I have Bosch green giant 42# injectors. Days of searching and no one has confirmed data on those. that's why I'm considering putting in the stock 2.4l injectors until I at least resolve some other issues. I know that isn't the entire problem because when I took off the SC and went back to the NA manifold I swapped back the injectors and idle was still very high.
I have tried various TB relearns including waiting a minute and seeing the TB open and shut like described.
Do to the generosity of Steve by showing me a tune of a similar I finally got the boat going. I also bought a TB that hadn't been cleaned. I'm running super rich but running.
The tune is for green top 42lb injectors and I have green giant 42lb injectors so I still need to tune the injectors closer to mine.
I also put on a salvage yard exhaust manifold, down pipe, and a length of flexible exhaust. It gave me an O2 and my WB to monitor. I'll disconnect the O2 tomorrow to see how it behaves since I won't have O2 when the marine manifold goes back on.
The SC cooler is hooked up to the jet pump so it's really hot now but will chill the intake air once I'm in the water.
im noticing here that the o2 sensor isnt reading, the o2 sensor voltage b1s1 through the entire log is 0.003 volts, full lean. the fuel trims are going up to 32 short term and 19.5 long term, meaning the ecm is adding 51.5% more fuel because it thinks the engine is running lean. the engine is likely going to act the exact same with the 02 sensor not hooked up.
you need to come up with a way to disable the long term and short term fuel trims so it will work without the o2 sensor. you can disable fuel trims in the scanner for diagnostic and tuning purposes, however they will re-enable after a key cycle. unless you can permanently disable the fuel trims, running without an o2 sensor will make tuning impossible.
i just had a quick look at the tune. under the fuel tab- open and closed loop- closed loop enable- ect vs startup ect, if you max the temp out across the chart it should eliminate the ecm from going into closed loop and using the fuel trims.
maybe give that a try and see what happens with the fuel trims.
Odd that the voltage isn't reading in channels when I see it working in the gauges, graph and chart panels. And the lambda reported is the same as my WB reading. So, the O2 is working I just need to figure out what is configured wrong in the channels.
I'll see what I can do about changing temp limits like you suggest. Unless I can find someone to make an adapter plate for my riser/manifold junction to fit an O2 I will need to have this full tuned before being truly done and ready for the water.
the 02 sensor b1s1 isnt working in anything i add it to, and thats supported by the fact the fuel trims are maxing out despite it running rich. your wideband input is working fine.
the 02 sensor b1s1 isnt working in anything i add it to, and thats supported by the fact the fuel trims are maxing out despite it running rich. your wideband input is working fine.
You were right. I disconnected my WB and no readings at all. I had a spare O2 so connected it. Bingo, the spare was working fine. I went back to the fuel trims enabled at the previous ECTs.
Here is the more recent log with the O2 working. Once it cools down I will work on getting the bad O2 off so I can put the WB back on.
It is running great as far as I can tell. That is until I start going over about 3,200rpm then it suddenly goes lean and starts stumbling. Going back to 3,200rmp or less and it immediately runs smooth again with good AFR.
I'm very happy with performance until trying to get above the seeming RPM wall.
It go so bad on one run that it went into limp mode only idling until I got to shore and shut down then restarted.
It would also be nice if I could get my idle down just a little lower. I thought I understood how and made some adjustments that made no difference.
Anyone with any ideas? I'm soooo close after starting this project last year.
I already had a suggestion that my VE tables are off though who I got them from helped me at least get it running. Unfortunately tuning the VE table is the part I understand the least.
I"m very thankful I can at least run the boat for now as long as I keep the RPMs down. In that range I still have way more than my ooutboard did.
I would really do whatever you have to do to get a MAF on that. Even if it is just temporary to try a file. I see at 3300 or so you go very lean based off your stock O2.
This is definitely a unique install but you still have a TPS input. I don't see where a MPH input is necessary to get you going.
I already had a suggestion that my VE tables are off though who I got them from helped me at least get it running. Unfortunately tuning the VE table is the part I understand the least.
I"m very thankful I can at least run the boat for now as long as I keep the RPMs down. In that range I still have way more than my ooutboard did.
I agree with HGT, according to the narrowband sensor, when the system goes into open loop on load, it is ~44mv suggesting it is in the lean region somewhere.
Do you have anyway of setting up your wideband as an input in HPTuners? A better question is which wideband controller are you running? I know that the AEM UEGO controllers can be setup with a DB-9 and used as a serial input for HPTuners. I know that most wideband controllers also have a narrowband "simulation" feature, where you can wire the simulation output into the connector of your stock harness O2 sensor and the computer should be happy minus a couple CEL's for O2 heater circuits, which could be disabled.
Basically, If you can pull wideband data directly into HPTuners I could setup a formula to calculated corrected VE formula based on your desired equivalence ratio. Should be able to run through it several times, and close in on a calibrated VE map.
if you guys grab his config file from the last page it will show the wideband. he is logging lambda. its showing very lean, around 1.14 lambda above 3300rpm.
I was logging AEM wideband 30-0333. I can see it so not sure why others don't'.
Unfortunately I had a small fire onboard because I couldn't keep exhaust far enough away so had to put in the marine exhaust back on which will only have one O2 port and I'm not even sure how well that will work yet (as far as accuracy). If there is a way to send simulated NB signal from my AEM and still log WB that would be great. As much forum searching as I have done I haven't found that as a solution for only running WB sensor. I don't have HPT pro so the AEM output through OBD port has been very convenient.
Could give this a whirl; I am attaching a math function and a table. Import the math function first the the table second.
Tools > Math Parameters; Select an empty user defined function and open the attached function.
Under the "Graphs" section of the layout window, right click and select "Graphs Layout." Click the folder icon to import the layout I have sent you.
Basically this is a quick calculation based on lambda. I calculated an error, percentage wise, between target and actual. It requires minimum of 10 hits per cell to record a value to ensure robust data quality. You may have to setup the axis' accordingly to work for your VE map. Once setup appropriately you can record several iterations of data, post process them and correct your VE map. The way this table is setup is that you can directly copy and paste special "multiply by percentage" to your VE table(s) to slowly correct your desired with your actual values.
I was logging AEM wideband 30-0333. I can see it so not sure why others don't'.
Unfortunately I had a small fire onboard because I couldn't keep exhaust far enough away so had to put in the marine exhaust back on which will only have one O2 port and I'm not even sure how well that will work yet (as far as accuracy). If there is a way to send simulated NB signal from my AEM and still log WB that would be great. As much forum searching as I have done I haven't found that as a solution for only running WB sensor. I don't have HPT pro so the AEM output through OBD port has been very convenient.
Ahh yes, I got the wideband data situated.
Looks like your generation of AEM UEGO doesn't support narrowband simulation. Basically on previous generations, there was a wire that was 0-1v output that simulated a narrowband sensor based on your widebands reading. Was super handy as you could use the wideband as a dedicated O2 sensor and retain fuel trim functionality.
Could give this a whirl; I am attaching a math function and a table. Import the math function first the the table second.
Tools > Math Parameters; Select an empty user defined function and open the attached function.
Under the "Graphs" section of the layout window, right click and select "Graphs Layout." Click the folder icon to import the layout I have sent you.
Basically this is a quick calculation based on lambda. I calculated an error, percentage wise, between target and actual. It requires minimum of 10 hits per cell to record a value to ensure robust data quality. You may have to setup the axis' accordingly to work for your VE map. Once setup appropriately you can record several iterations of data, post process them and correct your VE map. The way this table is setup is that you can directly copy and paste special "multiply by percentage" to your VE table(s) to slowly correct your desired with your actual values.
I hope this helps.
Thank you. Most of this stuff is way over my head so it may take a while to do this. I may not hit a lot of cells. I don't have variable loads with a jet pump. I would think that would make it easier to tune. Except for temperature changes I don't have much else that would change. At any given "pedal" position it should deliver the same fuel, the same rpm and same volume of air. The impeller will have the same Resistance at the same rpm at all times. I'm not sure if that helps.
I did did find some room to snake an accordion type intake tube out and had a stock Cobalt air box with MAF sensor attached to it. I just need to make sure that MAF sensor is the same as my ECM is set for and the pinout since I don't have wires for it in my harness. It's a 3" accordion so I'm not sure if the MAF would need new calibration but the sensor is located before the accordion tube so hopefully not.
Thank you. Most of this stuff is way over my head so it may take a while to do this. I may not hit a lot of cells. I don't have variable loads with a jet pump. I would think that would make it easier to tune. Except for temperature changes I don't have much else that would change. At any given "pedal" position it should deliver the same fuel, the same rpm and same volume of air. The impeller will have the same Resistance at the same rpm at all times. I'm not sure if that helps.
I did did find some room to snake an accordion type intake tube out and had a stock Cobalt air box with MAF sensor attached to it. I just need to make sure that MAF sensor is the same as my ECM is set for and the pinout since I don't have wires for it in my harness. It's a 3" accordion so I'm not sure if the MAF would need new calibration but the sensor is located before the accordion tube so hopefully not.
If you have the stock air box, that is a good starting point since the MAF mount and tube diameter at the MAF are OEM. These will help ensure air metering accuracy and laminar flow up until the accordion hose.
Here's the schematic for your MAF. I am guessing you already have the Intake air temp portion done.
are you sure that yellow isn't 67 instead of 37 on my ECU? I took the connector and wires off the harness that was on the car it came off and removed the yellow from #67. And my wires are yellow, tan, tan/blk, pink, blk/wht.
I've already wired it and left out the temp since I have one on the MAP.
I won't be in the water again until Monday.
Figured out my tables and some sensors in the charts were not correlating to my VE tables and PIDs. Hopefully I have that right now. It's tough making these adjustments out on the water. I guess it's time to build a house on the river. 😬
Unfortunately I had a setback. Ironically while cleaning up wiring and installing a marine fuse panel to make sure everything is protected the hot wire from the battery touched a bolt. That bolt, like all others, was connected to a big metal tub (my boat) and my ECM got fried to the point it couldn't even be connected to. The ECM I replaced it with I could connect to it and it would operate usual relays with key on. I traced all wires and they appear to be fine (thankful for having a much more simple and easy to access harness).
There was only one other E67 in town that I could find. It was off a 2006 Colbalt SS 2.4l. I assumed it would be close enough to just copy over the tune changes. Unfortunately I found several tables that made me scratch my head at how different they were.
KPA columns in particular in the '06 went from negatives to positives where the '07 G6 started positive and went higher.
I'm not sure how to marry the 2 up or how the ECM is looking at the same sensors and tables so differently. It's crazy that the same engine and ECM only one year apart in similar applications would have different management approaches.
If anyone has suggestions on how to get some of the boat tune onto the new '06 cobalt ECM please let me know.
I did install a MAF so hopefully will get back to finishing the tune soon.
The tables most notable to me:
fuel tab; flow vs kpa, offset vs volts vs vac, and offset vs volts vs map were completely different
airflow - accelerator pedal position map
I also noticed that the place you normally disable VATS wasn't there but I did find the tab with VATS patch applied 'yes or no'. There is much confusion as I've read many conflicting forum posts as to whether I even have VATS on this ECM.
I guess now I actually have part of a Cobalt SS in my boat now.
once you unlock the ecm with hp tuners (spend credits) you can open the file from the old ecm and do a "write entire". this will install the operating system that was in the old ecm into the new one, everything will be back the way it was
once you unlock the ecm with hp tuners (spend credits) you can open the file from the old ecm and do a "write entire". this will install the operating system that was in the old ecm into the new one, everything will be back the way it was
DO NOT DO THIS
hptuners does not recommend doing this and its been haunting me ever since i did it to my car. You can compare files and copy tables over but DO NOT write over another vin with hptuners. If you had the oem scan tool you could flash it that way but thats the only safe way.
hptuners does not recommend doing this and its been haunting me ever since i did it to my car. You can compare files and copy tables over but DO NOT write over another vin with hptuners. If you had the oem scan tool you could flash it that way but thats the only safe way.
I had heard of problems writing another tune to a different ECM so wasn't planning on it. I was trying to use the compare feature which is how I found the differences in tables. I understand when there are smaller or larger ranges or different intervals but I don't understand the difference I see yet labeled as the same table. HPT won't even show a comparison. It's greyed out.
06-13-2017, 08:21 PM
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