im looking at doing something with a LE5 and have some questions for you guys out there that have built them up. im familiar with ecotecs as i have built my LNF but thats a whole different animal. im thinking of going wild with a 2.4 now! dont know much about them so here are my questions.

i see that there is some newer LEA/LAF sand casted blocks that exist just like the LDK ones we turbo guys swap over for strength. question is, will a LE5 or similar non direct injection style head bolt up to one of these blocks? im looking to stay with port injection as much as possible. if not, what are my options for using one of these new blocks and is it even necessary? how strong is the stock LE5 block itself?

i see there is lots of great forged piston and rods available out there but dont see much about forged crank options. anyone know where to find one and if theyre readily available? i was thinking of contacting eagle or one of those companies directly and seeing if they would make one but before i do that, how good is the stock 2.4 crank and is it suitable for a very high hp build? in other words, what are its capabilities and when would a forged option be needed?

the plan for the build is big turbo. do you guys think the 2.4 is a good enough engine for a big T4 style turbo? knowing how well the 2.4 strokers do in the dsm/evo world with spooling the bigger turbos quicker i was hoping that the same would apply in this case with the LE5. id love to hear about some of your experiences with bigger turbos on the LE5 and hell even the L61. pretty much anything thats not a 2.0. this engine is not going into a cobalt so i have plenty of room for a nice custom T4 manifold if it would indeed work.

as far as tuning goes, im thinking standalone. haltech elite to be exact. anyone have experience with this ecu or anything of the like on this specific engine? seems like a pretty straight forward ecu for running just the basic necessities (fuel, spark, etc) but i wanted to make sure there was no weird issues with how this engine itself runs which would make the ecu not work properly or not be compatible or something. in which case, what works flawlessly with the LE5?

i know this was alot to take in and im sorry just wanna lay everything out on the table beforehand.

thanks guys!

 

I don't have the answers to the other questions but I can help a little with the crankshaft.

Years ago I had billet crankshafts made for the LSJ. These crankshafts were top notch so I would try reaching out to Marine Crankshafts The person I dealt with was Sandy. Don't let the marine part fool you, they make crankshafts for everything. Be prepared to pay top dollar, as mostly one-off crankshafts don't come cheap. I originally bought 3 of the 2.0 crankshafts and they each cost me $2100.US, plus shipping.

I am curious as to what transmission you plan on using. The transmission became one of the biggest issues back when my project was first starting out.

 

thanks for that! ill definitely reach out and see what they say. as far as the trans goes, i plan on using another F40 since ive had success with it on my LNF. but damn now i wonder if itll even bolt up to the 2.4

 

My suggestion is to have the details/parts all worked out, before spending any money. The transmission is the part that takes the hit from all the HP that you want to go to the wheels.

As for whether the F40 will match up to the 2.4, someone else will chime in on that one.

I learnt the hard way that when you significantly modify one part of the drivetrain everything connected to that part, needs to be upgraded too. That is a big part of the reason I went to the V8 because my transmission options opened up once I did so.

 

The f23 trans is fairly strong. Stronger than the f35 so the story goes. Use a lower final drive snd it will help as well. The 2.4 came with that trans so compatibility shouldn’t be an issue.

 

i checked out marine crankshaft and they look legit! im definitely down to work with them if i find i actually need to go with a different crank vs the stock one. still need to find out how strong it really is.

ill look into a F23 if push comes to shove for sure. thanks for that. if i can bolt one up to any of the F35 car engines then i shouldnt have an issue using a F40 since that trans bolts right up. then again, im talking 2.0 so i need to see how the 2.4 actually looks.

 

You do not need a crank. The le5 can hold over 700hp. It’s been done. Yes you can use the gen 3 block and a le5 head. I built one for mine.

 

sounds great! thats pretty much the option im going with. the crank was my main concern since i really dont know much about it. just trying to build the bottom end to be very strong yknow and dont wanna take any shortcuts.

 

There’s multiple options for the block. You can get a gen 3 or you can sleeve or girdle the stock le5 block. I have the gen 3 with diamond pistons and molnar rods. My friend here made 717whp with the stock le5 crank.

 

anyone know what motor the carl brunet racecar is running? i was looking and reading up on it but not much info other than "gm ecotec powered"

thats good to hear. those are great numbers! i love having options so thats why im here asking. thanks!

 

All Ecotecs share the same transmission pattern. F23/F35/F40 all bolt up the same. Just stick with the F23; replacements are dirt cheap, it's plentiful, and it holds the power well. If you make the move to the F40... that's $2-3000 less you have to spend on the project.

And as Alissa said, stock crank is fine. Throw some pistons and rods in it and go for it.

As far as quick spool on a giant T4... why? A 2.4L will be better at spooling quickly (higher compression, more displacement), but it's not going to be a HUGE difference - and certainly nothing like a 2.4L stroker seen in DSM/Evo cars. The Ecotec 2.4L is not a stoker engine, it's a bored out 2.2L. IMO, skip the T4 and go for a quality T3 turbo. The right turbo will make all the power that you want and spool quickly. Garrett makes 560-hp rated GTX2871R's that hit spool in the low to mid 2000-rpm range. The GTX3076R is rated for up to 750 hp.

Also, I have a Gen 2 (sand cast; integrated sleeves) 2.4L (LAF) bare block in my garage, if you're interested. I was going to make a 2.1L with an LSJ crank, but decided against it last year.

 

well its going into a custom built dedicated race car not a street car. specifically a standing mile car so i need ALL the ponies . 560 aint gonna cut it, hell thats basicially what i have in my lnf now! a true twin scroll T4 should do the trick.

didnt even think about the 2.4 not being a stroker but im glad you brought it up. im now wondering if working with a 2.2 from the start would be better. guess i still have some more planning and studying to do.

 

that’s a gen 3 block FYI

 

Sure, but my point was more about the ability of turbos though. A GTX3584RS is 1000hp capable. I'm not sure that Garrett offers it in T4 either... I think a lot of their larger turbos, they've moved to full v-band housings.

If you're going for a ton of power, you might be better off doing a 2.1L. LSJ crank/rods + 2.4L block. ZZP makes pistons specifically for that application.

I think I'd probably take the approach of just using an LSJ. The square setup lends itself to higher revs, higher revs are where the power is at, and that's what you're after.

Solid lifters, aggressive cam, rev that sucker out to like 9-10k.

That was my first assumption when I bought it, but the further I dug into it, everything pointed to it being a Gen 2... with Gen 3's only being 2.0's and 2.5's from 2013 and later.

 

i like the sound of this!

im assuming lsj head also or is there a better suited head? ill check out zzp and see what type of stuff they have going

 

If you’re building a dedicated race car and you want lots of power why not just go with an LS engine where your options are limitless?

 

lol...

 

What is your goal in the standing mile? Just build a 600-700whp car and see what speed you get? Or do you have a target speed you want to hit? If the later I would do a wind tunnel test and calculate the needed horsepower for the drag of the car before even starting a build.

 

Rod brings up a fair point... and is kind of the subject matter expert on trying to make a Cobalt go really fast. The $$$ per HP ratio starts heading exponentially into the $$$ side the higher the horsepower number you're after. And the Cobalt and Ecotec don't have a ton of support - so finding ultra high performance parts is a lot more tricky.

I would be willing to bet that I could build an equally fast older Volkswagen GTI for a third of the price that you could do an Ecotec... and it's simply due to parts availability and the strength of the aftermarket.

Just something to consider. And like others are saying... you need a firm power goal.

LSJ core or a 2.2 core should be about the same. You'll want LNF valves at a minimum, because they're the best OE valves - I'm not too sure if you'll need aftermarket or not.

Josh @ Port Worx could hook you up with a solid ported head. John (Mr.Belvedere) knows about solid lifters and can get cams made for them.


The biggest problem you're going to face is longevity. Standing mile with a high horsepower 4 cyl will destroy parts. Lots of them. Once you get into 5th gear and you're just rolling on it... that's when you're going to be at risk of melting pistons, melting valves, butting rings together, etc.

Former forum member Hatrickstu has a 1000+ hp S2000 now... and he's always replacing parts and updating the setup.

 

funny that you mention that because earlier today i was looking at aerodynamics and trying to find a place that will help out in that department.

the number in mind and plan is for 250 but i dont think any of our factory trans will hit that mark. i want to stick with as much "oem gm stuff" as possible just to be able to say so. ill probably start with the F40 and go from there.

 

youre absolutely right about this as ive seen so far. gonna be pricey! and just as much pricey as super difficult due to parts availability. but this is what these discussions are all about right?? maybe ill just push the limits, break stuff and replace only the broken. find the realistic weak points vs just assuming. i dont like going about new builds and stuff this way (i like to use proven parts right from the start) but there isnt really any other option if i wanna stick with the ecotec platform, which i do. or maybe just forget the whole thing.

 

What's you power goal? You wrote 250... did you mean 1250? Or something else?

The parts are out there... tracking them down, the price, and work to get them working correctly will be the biggest issue.

Going with the F40 will give you no options for improvement of the transmission. With the F23, I believe there is at least an aftermarket due to it being used in Cavaliers for years before the Cobalt.

In addition to that... that 6th gear will likely be a waste for a standing mile run. What kind of top end speed are you aiming for? Have a tire size in mind (this will affect top end speed, obviously)? I ask because a 25.4" tire and a short ratio HHR F23 will hit 210 mph in 5th gear at 8000 rpm. A Saab F40 will be shifting to 6th at 190 (assuming 8k redline)... and a Regal F40's 5th will stretch to 211 (so if you aren't going faster than that, why have 6 gears?).

I made an Ecotec Transmission Spreadsheet. It's on here somewhere. I made a thread.

 

250 mph or kph?

Because 250kph is possible with the 3.82 f35 or even the 4.45 (I've been at 270kph /168mph with the 4.45, it was faster but hptuners doesn't log above 168mph lol).

To hit 250mph you would need to rev to 8900 with the 4.05 in 5th gear with a 27" tire (again theoretical calc).

Also 250 mph in the standing mile is insane so I'm assuming you're meaning kph.

 

I thought that might have been a typo and he meant 1250 hp. I didn't think that was a speed.

250 MPH would be... dare I say it... impossible.

I think it took something like 1500 hp for a Lamborghini to hit 250 mph at the Texas Mile.

 

i meant mph. yeah im definitely insane i know but thats just a round number to aim for but realistically probably wont get to. might flirt with it though who knows. biggest thing for me was building an engine that can take the kind of abuse required for such a feat and go from there but after looking into it i see its just not gonna happen