Decision point - Cobalt SS Network



2.4L LE5 Performance Tech 16 valve 171 hp EcoTec with 163 lb-ft of torque
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:17 AM   #1  
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Decision point

So I'm at a stage in my thinking about my restoration project where I have to ask about emissions, so I can plan out the engine work.

Which path is best?

A - Rebuild the car for certification (Job 1), and putting off Job 2, install ot the supercharging system, to a later time,

or

B - Begin the process of removing the front facia of the car and doing the engine swap along side the installation of the supercharging system, thus making one job instead of two jobs.

The whole job has to pass Ontario emissions, else it's no good. I need it bulletproof emissions-wise for the plan to make sense. So I'm asking so I can try to assess the risk of going in the Plan B direction.

Note when I do the supercharging job my intent is cheap so I'll be using the injectors, everything I can steal, from the SS SC car, same vintage, to power up the 2.4L NA. Where possible, I'll be swapping the cooling bits with new larger parts (i.e., rad) if I have the money at completion.

Also, I can see when you buy HP Tuners you have to buy credits of some kind. So this means one can only rewrite the ECU or an auto CPU operating system so many times, depending on how many credits you possess? So each is a credit? I've been working from that assumption but I don't know the nature of this kind of leasing or whatever.
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:21 AM   #2  
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You buy credits to unlock a particular VIN, so if you only work on one ECU/VIN, you only buy the corresponding credits (2). You can flash that VIN as many times as you like. If for some reason you want to change VIN or OS you would have to buy credits for that VIN. You can then spend lots more money to buy out the model year and finally the chassis, but there's no reason for an "enthusiast" to worry about that.
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:27 AM   #3  
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It just seems to me a leasing arrangement, wherein the OS is the intellectual property of someone else, whereas if the OS were my own, I could theoretically revise it as I wish. Is that correct?
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:28 AM   #4  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exninja View Post
You buy credits to unlock a particular VIN, so if you only work on one ECU/VIN, you only buy the corresponding credits (2). You can flash that VIN as many times as you like. If for some reason you want to change VIN or OS you would have to buy credits for that VIN. You can then spend lots more money to buy out the model year and finally the chassis, but there's no reason for an "enthusiast" to worry about that.
Ok thank you. I'm an enthusiast, but I am trying to find out how enthusiastic I am, about being an enthusiast. Your comment helps me figure it out a bit. Merci mon ami.
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:43 AM   #5  
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Ok that brings down the cost of HP Tuners a bit - so the HPT product is really just an interface and some code to write the OS given optimal parameters gleaned from running the car, testing out assumptions and correcting wastes...does it have the ability to generate optimal configurations? For example, supposing I have a supercharged LE5 and I end up in the middle of nowhere, and all I can get is 89 gasoline. And supposing my laptop is fully charged and I have my HPTuners gizmo with me; will I be able to configure the device to run my car on 89 without knock, assuming I'm willing to take a performance hit, safely?
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:45 AM   #6  
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...So I could create a file for 89, a file for 94, etc., and use each file at will? Now that would be convenient.
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:25 PM   #7  
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Yes you could write separate tune (or configuration) files for each type of gasoline you'd use. HPTuners doesn't have the ability to "generate optimal configs" by itself, you'd have to do it through trial and error. It takes time to do that.

Personally if I'm going to switch often I'd rather make a forgiving tune and leave it on except for maybe special circumstances. I don't know how many reflashes the ECU memory can handle.
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:40 PM   #8  
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Yes I see your point - ok - so the system uses a memory chip that has limited life hmm.

I wouldn't plan on using low octane gas often, and I have the high test locally, so as long as I'm not limited by some legality, I'll write over the system if I'm stuck in a place with low octane fuel for a while. In the meantime, water injection and rad spraying can bring down operating temperatures, or so it would seem.

The issue is I travel 2 or 3 hours from here and into the sticks, and in the sticks, the high octane stuff is less reliable. I never plan on being in the sticks for long, but if I'm camping or something, where I'm out there more than a day trip, I want the flexibility to be able to drive normally.

I suppose I could just use toluene or alcohol mixes, but I don't trust the vapours and the risk to me. Of course, one can lay off the right foot too, and survive a few days in the sticks without 91 octane.
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:39 PM   #9  
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To the extent that I can do so, I'd like to formulate a general-purpose programming like you mention, that takes into consideration the temperature of the output gasses so the system can smarten up if the water injection is on and thus cooling the combustion, else, I want the timing to take into consideration the lack of cooling, the higher exhaust gas temperatures, and make adjustments to mix and timing so I don't detonate. Other indicators I'd like the system to consider are air intake temperature and I think the MAF or MAP on our cars is also a temperature sensor if I'm not mistaken.

For me, the safest build up starts with cooling, and I've got the stock LSJ cooling system presently, but I'd like to presume heat is always the enemy and make effort to cool the system as much as possible. I'm considering the Killer Chiller system. Theirs is a $1000 kit if you include the all out drag system ($800 + $200 for the drag switch).

https://killerchiller.com/products/u...l-parallel-kit

The path is apparently thus:

IC > IC reservoir > IC pump > KC > IC

I don't know much about this system but I'm guessing the AC pump compresses the right liquid - whatever the AC system uses, and moves it though the usual radiators, but I have to learn more about it - I've asked a few questions of their technical people and might hear back soon - when I do I'll report. Some how it doesn't make sense to me that the IC cooling system can handle the same fluids like freon or whatever and the compressor pump achieve cooling on such a larger amount of liquid, but we'll see - still learning.

If the KC sucks, I'll upgrade the rads and IC - ZZP has both for about $500 skins combined purchase.
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:56 PM   #10  
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HPT gives you a set of parameters you can adjust, they provide us with a menu of options that we can change. Also note, I bricked an ECU because I key cycled while it was reading/writing/erasing, I had to not only pay a dealer to re-program a new ECU, buy a new ECU (I had a used one they couldn't program); I had to spend another 2-credits to unlock the new ECU, THEN manually update the new ECU tune file with the old ECU tune file, but with the newest HPT you can do a compare between files and makes life easy.

For your automatic timing adjustments, there are already IAT vs. Timing adder table that will add or subtract timing advance based solely on IAT readings.

If you are heavily modified and want to learn tuning (risky in nature), investing in a tuner is the best value. Also, you need a WBO2 sensor, not sure if built into your car but it is pretty much a requirement for tuning no excuses. Consider between my two cars, I've probably flashed a couple hundred times...imagine the cost for 200 flashes by a 3rd party.
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