LSJ + Air to Air FMIC
03-25-2011, 02:19 AM
#52
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There's a reason why NOT ONE ROOTS blower system is designed like that. They are all designed to be placed as close to the head as possible. I don't even think you would see that big of a power loss if you just got rid of the intercooling all together. Reason, because the ecotec cavy's gm blower kit isn't intercooled and they make damn near the power that bolt on LSJ's make.
03-25-2011, 04:56 AM
#54
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There's a reason why NOT ONE ROOTS blower system is designed like that. They are all designed to be placed as close to the head as possible. I don't even think you would see that big of a power loss if you just got rid of the intercooling all together. Reason, because the ecotec cavy's gm blower kit isn't intercooled and they make damn near the power that bolt on LSJ's make.
When making comparisons to other supercharged Ecotec setups, as I recall the discontinued blower kit (#17800003) for the J-body Ecotecs was intercooled and was essentially the LSJ setup for those cars. Which if you factor in the higher compression ratio and the extra displacement from the 2.2L might explain power differences (although I'm more familiar with the Twin Cam/Quad 4 blower setup for those cars which wasn't intercooled).
04-11-2011, 02:01 AM
#59
Senior Member
The bigger the piping the more volume which wouldn't work so well on a positive displacement blower. The example used by Lotus on the Yamaha/Toyota engine would be about the best setup. It doesn't make a significant amount of power but the top-mount design with minimal plumbing between the blower and intake ports on the head would be one of the few ways to minimize pressure drop. An air-to-liquid core in a proper, high flowing manifold really is one of the best ways to lower charge temps on a Roots-type blower this side of running nitrous o water/alky injection all the time.
04-11-2011, 02:21 AM
#60
The bigger the piping the more volume which wouldn't work so well on a positive displacement blower. The example used by Lotus on the Yamaha/Toyota engine would be about the best setup. It doesn't make a significant amount of power but the top-mount design with minimal plumbing between the blower and intake ports on the head would be one of the few ways to minimize pressure drop. An air-to-liquid core in a proper, high flowing manifold really is one of the best ways to lower charge temps on a Roots-type blower this side of running nitrous o water/alky injection all the time.
Eric to the rescue as usual
btw... where you been?
You in hiding as usual?! Seems like you missed the whole MP90 supercharger shenanigans I was doing. I documented it every step of the way
========
What's insane about this forum is you do something.... provide proof... yet theirs always a nay sayer.
Some german engineer said "zee same zyno, used over n over zagen, does not lie."
Last edited by 100% METH; 04-11-2011 at 02:43 AM.
04-11-2011, 02:34 PM
#61
well, it does to an extent. most car enthusiasts know, a dno is a benchmark tool, and should only be used to benchmark you own car, not your car vs other dyno numbers (like this forum loves to do)
and blackbird is dead on. 3"OD is HUUGE. Our intake tube is only 3" on the biggest intake made for us. if you're going to pressurize that air, then you will need less volume to create the same velocity. 2.5" would yield the same flow rates given an engine on 24psi post compressor. Of course you can go smaller slightly and benefit from better velocity and better low end power at the cost of some high end power.
and blackbird is dead on. 3"OD is HUUGE. Our intake tube is only 3" on the biggest intake made for us. if you're going to pressurize that air, then you will need less volume to create the same velocity. 2.5" would yield the same flow rates given an engine on 24psi post compressor. Of course you can go smaller slightly and benefit from better velocity and better low end power at the cost of some high end power.
04-11-2011, 06:28 PM
#62
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100% meth, you want to make a cooling upgrade? Make a sheet metal mani that has a bar and plate heat exchanger and runners designed for optimum performance at highway revs (runner length doesnt matter really with the blower but if they're optimized as an na engine at highway cruise then it should get better gas mileage than if it was just some random length that worked). Then you get rid of the laminova cores and can flow more water and support more air flow through the h/e.
04-11-2011, 07:40 PM
#63
100% meth, you want to make a cooling upgrade? Make a sheet metal mani that has a bar and plate heat exchanger and runners designed for optimum performance at highway revs (runner length doesnt matter really with the blower but if they're optimized as an na engine at highway cruise then it should get better gas mileage than if it was just some random length that worked). Then you get rid of the laminova cores and can flow more water and support more air flow through the h/e.
I like laminovas...maybe make a new IM using 6 of them? lol
04-12-2011, 04:50 AM
#66
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The Laminova cores are very efficient compared to conventional tube-and-fin cores used in older air-to-liquid intercoolers. I haven't spent a ton of time looking into LSJ upgrades but it wouldn't surprise me if a new manifold design with additional cores would increase efficiency. The factory setup isn't that terrible (especially at the stock power levels it was designed for) but the design was probably heavily biased towards a combination of packaging and cost with minimal if any emphasis placed on upgrade abilities to support higher power levels. And unfortunately a new casting would be pretty cost prohibitive and trying to weld together one would be tough to get decent flow with complexity required to fit everything in the small space available.
Busy as usual and haven't been on the forums much. That and too many projects and not enough time. I've "only" got two cars on jack stands with transmissions out right now and a bunch of other stuff I'm behind on. 
04-21-2011, 12:21 AM
#73
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yea, I look forward to getting mine running again this summer. And although I have a somewhat large goal of high hp, I just want it running. I know it will be fast enough for a while and then I can tinker with it more and turn the boost up.
Afterall, with a wastegate pressure of 18psi on a mighty Holset HX40, it can't be too slow right?
Afterall, with a wastegate pressure of 18psi on a mighty Holset HX40, it can't be too slow right?