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OFFICIAL Blown 4-banger build updates!

Old 06-22-2007, 09:05 AM
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Here's a question for all you folks saying you're going with a Ti Valvetrain:

What all parts of the valvetrain are you actually replacing with titanium parts?

Every time I dig into someones setup that claims they have a "Totally titanium" valvetrain, I end up finding they are using stainless or inconel valves with standard (put upgraded springs) and a stock cam, so the only parts they are actually using that are titanium are the valve retainers.
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Old 06-22-2007, 12:35 PM
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Higher compression pistons WILL net you more hp/tq, however your car wont like it much, and neither will the pistons.

If you can TUNE the higher compression pistons, and not have a worry in the world that they will break (or break something else...like your block) then you can do it.


However, lower compression pistons arnt necesarily better, but ALOT safer, and it allows you to shove more air into your motor.


Turbos, you can up the boost with a push of a button (boost controller) so lower comp. pistons would be best.

Superchargers, if you can find the right comp. pistons for the amount of boost your pushin, thatd be key. (alot of Trial & Error...and money)


but I look forward to seeing your updates.

(and my explanation was directed towards scythe snake)

Last edited by TCarter; 06-22-2007 at 12:35 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 06-22-2007, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by shabodah View Post
Here's a question for all you folks saying you're going with a Ti Valvetrain:

What all parts of the valvetrain are you actually replacing with titanium parts?

Every time I dig into someones setup that claims they have a "Totally titanium" valvetrain, I end up finding they are using stainless or inconel valves with standard (put upgraded springs) and a stock cam, so the only parts they are actually using that are titanium are the valve retainers.
In my case FULL Ti valvetrain means, Ti valves, and Ti retainers. The springs are still made out of steel. The only cars that use Ti valvesprings are like top fuel cars<-- John from Ferrea told me that.
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Old 06-22-2007, 04:14 PM
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So are you using the supertechperformance +1 mm valves, then?
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Old 06-23-2007, 03:40 AM
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Nope. Ferrea all the way for me. +1 mm titanium valves, dual valve springs good for 9000+ rpm, and titanium retainers to match.
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Old 06-23-2007, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Blown 4-banger View Post
Nope. Ferrea all the way for me. +1 mm titanium valves, dual valve springs good for 9000+ rpm, and titanium retainers to match.
Unless you're using a different PCM, there isn't a point in going past 8400 rpm's. Honestly, if you're using titanium valves, dual valve springs will be overkill and just adding the weight you were trying to remove back.

I'd love to see a link to the Ferrea titanium valves or any other info you have on them, though.
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Old 06-23-2007, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by shabodah View Post
Unless you're using a different PCM, there isn't a point in going past 8400 rpm's. Honestly, if you're using titanium valves, dual valve springs will be overkill and just adding the weight you were trying to remove back.

I'd love to see a link to the Ferrea titanium valves or any other info you have on them, though.
I doubt Cameron was intending on going up to 9000 rpms. A good 8000 rpm racer would be nice.


Yeah we got La Bannana running. I was trying to explain to gilbert how he couldn't run the 2.6" with the pump gas, and spent 2 days trying to tune it that way anyways. On the race gas
(109) it says something like 430hp on the interceptor, but I still don't like the way his setup feels. Still can't wait to take it to the dyno to see how much HP it really does make.
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Old 06-23-2007, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by shabodah View Post
Unless you're using a different PCM, there isn't a point in going past 8400 rpm's. Honestly, if you're using titanium valves, dual valve springs will be overkill and just adding the weight you were trying to remove back.

I'd love to see a link to the Ferrea titanium valves or any other info you have on them, though.
You use titanium valves to REDUCE weight from the valvetrain, because they are lighter than stainless steal valves. Get your facts straight. Dual valve springs are only a few grams heavier than standard valve spring, but since they don't move (they do compress, but remain stationary), they don't add weight to the moving valvetrain.
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Old 06-24-2007, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Blown 4-banger View Post
You use titanium valves to REDUCE weight from the valvetrain, because they are lighter than stainless steal valves. Get your facts straight. Dual valve springs are only a few grams heavier than standard valve spring, but since they don't move (they do compress, but remain stationary), they don't add weight to the moving valvetrain.
Also the dual valve springs will make it that much more reliable (safe).
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Old 06-24-2007, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by SwizzDSMSS View Post
Also the dual valve springs will make it that much more reliable (safe).
X2^^^ and thats one of the main reasons I'm getting them.
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Old 06-24-2007, 05:46 PM
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First off, I have my facts straight, you just mis-interpretted what I was saying. Second off, using a heavy rated spring adds to internal friction, no matter what. The weight of the spring itself does have less of an effect on the valvetrain than the valve itself, but it still is weight that needs to be moved. I'm not suggesting that you should go with the stock springs, just that a upgraded single spring would be able to handle more than you think seeing as it will have lighter valves to deal with in the first place.
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Old 06-24-2007, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by shabodah View Post
First off, I have my facts straight, you just mis-interpretted what I was saying. Second off, using a heavy rated spring adds to internal friction, no matter what. The weight of the spring itself does have less of an effect on the valvetrain than the valve itself, but it still is weight that needs to be moved. I'm not suggesting that you should go with the stock springs, just that a upgraded single spring would be able to handle more than you think seeing as it will have lighter valves to deal with in the first place.
Well, I'm one to "over build". For instance, I will only have around 400 whp on race gas, so I'm building my motor to handle over 700. Same goes for my valve springs, I only plan to rev to 8100, so valve springs good for 9500 with do just fine
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Old 06-24-2007, 11:17 PM
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Hey blown have you consider cams already or no i have not read the whole thread but are you or no
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Old 06-25-2007, 03:35 PM
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Waiting to hear back from my friend about prices on the GM cam blanks. I'm ordering them, then sending them off to comp to get custom insanly ground.
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Old 06-25-2007, 08:12 PM
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Basically, he wants to have enough whp for the street, but also be able to make tons without blowing the motor again if he wants to.
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Old 06-25-2007, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by damien View Post
Basically, he wants to have enough whp for the street, but also be able to make tons without blowing the motor again if he wants to.
GMPP themselves told me that they recommend having custom cylinder liners installed above 400 horses, or buying their race prepped block. I'm not against anything he's doing, and I tend to overkill the vast majority of my own projects. I've just decided my goals for my own build aren't quite what his are, and I've been focusing more on reducing friction than anything else, so I just thought he'd appreciate some verying opinions.
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Old 06-25-2007, 11:42 PM
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I think the race Ecotecs are bored like .32 over or something like that. I'm not to sure.
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Old 06-26-2007, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by shabodah View Post
GMPP themselves told me that they recommend having custom cylinder liners installed above 400 horses, or buying their race prepped block. I'm not against anything he's doing, and I tend to overkill the vast majority of my own projects. I've just decided my goals for my own build aren't quite what his are, and I've been focusing more on reducing friction than anything else, so I just thought he'd appreciate some verying opinions.
When GM tested the limits of the 2.2L ecotec, blowing many many motors in the process, they got to the point at which they had modified pretty much everything needed to make over 700 hp. Then the STOCK sleeves failed... at 740 hp.
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Old 06-26-2007, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Blown 4-banger View Post
When GM tested the limits of the 2.2L ecotec, blowing many many motors in the process, they got to the point at which they had modified pretty much everything needed to make over 700 hp. Then the STOCK sleeves failed... at 740 hp.
I've read the background and build book as many times as most. I'm just passing on what they told me when I was trying to get the info for installing the copper headgasket and o-ring kit.
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Old 06-26-2007, 04:53 PM
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from what I"ve read the stock sleeves should hold just fine, hopefully they do since I really didn't budget that work in at the moment.
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Old 06-26-2007, 04:53 PM
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Did you read this? Read toward the bottom where the sleeves failed, and thats on the 2002 2.2L, I'm sure the 2.0L sleeves are a little more beefy.

http://www.year2032.com/ecotec.htm

EDIT*
Originally Posted by Article post above
However the stock Ecotec block and main/girdle structure did survive to 750 hp, as did the stock sleeves.

Last edited by Blown 4-banger; 06-26-2007 at 05:18 PM.
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Old 06-26-2007, 05:21 PM
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I'm not dis-agreeing, I'm not putting new sleeves in either. Just passing on the info, as I said. BTW, I still haven't received the damn machining directions from those folks, either.

Edit:

What's up Paul? You ready to buy a trans? lol. Got the car on the road yet? What ever happened to that evo? Maybe you better PM me back, hehe.
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Old 06-26-2007, 05:23 PM
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Last I saw of Pauls build, he had a turbo big enough to suck a person in
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Old 06-26-2007, 05:52 PM
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Hope the build goes well!! And make sure you post up some pictures when you start getting some goodies in!
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Old 06-26-2007, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Blown 4-banger View Post
Last I saw of Pauls build, he had a turbo big enough to suck a person in
I think hes since switched to a gt28 or gt30 though iirc. I'm also curious as to his build as well as yours.
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