Water/Meth failsafe system
10-24-2017, 05:44 PM
#1
Water/Meth failsafe system
Today I went to do a pull on the way out of town to work like usual and I heard some knocking or pinging whatever you want to call it. At first I thought it was because I was running too much timing for the temperature but got my tuner involved and he adjusted my timing down for when ambient temp gets cold but I went to data log the new tune and I still had knock. I also noticed my AFR was reading a bit lean once the boost came on. So I started thinking it was my water meth system and started checking for leaks or a loose line. Discovered a blown 10 amp fuse for the pump. Has anyone ever blown a fuse one their meth pump that you know of? I replaced the fuse with a 15 amp fuse (which devilsown said was fine) and it seems to be working for now. But if you can imagine it doesn't exactly leave me feeling very confident in the system to do its job.
So I am looking into setting up a water/methanol injection failsafe system. No I'm not talking about some light that will come on to show me my tanks are empty. I'm looking for something that will shut things down if the methanol system is not keeping up for any reason. For the time being I plan on using AEMs failsafe system which you can read about here. It should be able to detect any kind of fault even if it is just low flow. It has 12V output signals when it is tripped that things are at unsafe levels in meth system. Since I have L61 and don't use the lower nipple on the bypass actuator on supercharger I was thinking about tying that 12v signal into a air solenoid that will activate the bypass actuator and prevent me from making boost if anything goes wrong in the water/meth system. I wondered if anyone had any experience with robust failsafe systems such as this and if you had any input as far as alternative ideas or advice/tips.
So I am looking into setting up a water/methanol injection failsafe system. No I'm not talking about some light that will come on to show me my tanks are empty. I'm looking for something that will shut things down if the methanol system is not keeping up for any reason. For the time being I plan on using AEMs failsafe system which you can read about here. It should be able to detect any kind of fault even if it is just low flow. It has 12V output signals when it is tripped that things are at unsafe levels in meth system. Since I have L61 and don't use the lower nipple on the bypass actuator on supercharger I was thinking about tying that 12v signal into a air solenoid that will activate the bypass actuator and prevent me from making boost if anything goes wrong in the water/meth system. I wondered if anyone had any experience with robust failsafe systems such as this and if you had any input as far as alternative ideas or advice/tips.
Last edited by jdbaugh1; 10-24-2017 at 05:57 PM.
10-24-2017, 05:56 PM
#2
Senior Member
iTrader: (6)
Usually you hook it up to the IAT and then cause it to register either an extremely low temp or high temp and use the timing reduction for that parameter to pull enough timing.
I'd wire in a small LED on the pump power supply line or get a pressure sensor to install on the meth feed line and either light up when pressure is present or go out when pressure is present
I'd wire in a small LED on the pump power supply line or get a pressure sensor to install on the meth feed line and either light up when pressure is present or go out when pressure is present
The following 2 users liked this post by ECaulk:
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10-25-2017, 08:03 PM
#4
Super Moderator
Platinum Member
iTrader: (16)
Usually you hook it up to the IAT and then cause it to register either an extremely low temp or high temp and use the timing reduction for that parameter to pull enough timing.
I'd wire in a small LED on the pump power supply line or get a pressure sensor to install on the meth feed line and either light up when pressure is present or go out when pressure is present
I'd wire in a small LED on the pump power supply line or get a pressure sensor to install on the meth feed line and either light up when pressure is present or go out when pressure is present
for a fail safe, i think from 6500 and up we tuned the car richer so incase it failed the car would still have sufficient fueling to keep from crapping out a piston. my e-dick dyno numbers just wouldnt be as high
10-26-2017, 08:37 AM
#5
The plan is now to use the AEM failsafe system and I think I will go ahead and connect it to a solenoid to dump boost for simplicity and robustness. Being as I am 2006 LS I don't really want to have to rely on the ECM in any way. As it is right now if I lose the methanol injection I can't really go into boost anyway so it wouldn't be any different it would just prevent me from damaging things.
If I do decide to go the IAT modulation what do you guys use to generate an appropriate IAT signal? How do you keep it from distorting the regular IAT signal from the sensor?
If I do decide to go the IAT modulation what do you guys use to generate an appropriate IAT signal? How do you keep it from distorting the regular IAT signal from the sensor?
10-31-2017, 12:40 PM
#8
No it just has the casing cylinder which is just a cylinder with the magnets fixed to it and the end cap is the brushes. The only fluid flowing through is in the head and it's all plastic and rubber. Unless I suppose there is a possibility the head somehow leaked up into the motor because I really don't drive through water that frequently. I think I have only had water/meth injection for 2 years now. They provide an outer rubber casing which I did not use last time as I thought the location would be relatively dry but am going to use the rubber sleeve this time though it will make it run hotter.
10-31-2017, 01:25 PM
#9
https://prometh.com/products/pump-we...nt=13197203459
10-31-2017, 01:29 PM
#10
The DevilsOwn kit actually comes with a sleeve that looks identical to the one in the link you posted. I just didn't use it last time because I of insulating heat and I didn't think that much water splashed up where I have it. However, I will be installing it on the new pump this time around.
12-07-2017, 10:38 AM
#15
Yes failsafe is setup and works pretty good. What would you like to know? Posted some information up in my build thread when I completed that project. https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/2-2l...84/index9.html
12-07-2017, 05:53 PM
#17
i answered my own question, its normally open. grounding the control wire would make the solenoid close and have full boost, so that doesnt work as a failsafe. i could run a relay and remove the ground to make it open, but it will likely set boost solenoid circuit codes then.
im going to go the other way and wire it to the iat2 and just haver it retard timing. ive gone this far without having a failsafe or even a low fluid light on my water meth without any trouble so anything is better than nothing.
im going to go the other way and wire it to the iat2 and just haver it retard timing. ive gone this far without having a failsafe or even a low fluid light on my water meth without any trouble so anything is better than nothing.
12-08-2017, 08:47 AM
#18
Yeah when the car is running the solenoid has power going to it and is activated which closes or blocks off manifold pressure from passing through to the solenoid. In a fault condition the power is cut and the solenoid returns to it's normally open and at rest state which allows pressure from the manifold to reach the actuator. Where you have stock functionality with the boost solenoid I do not so it was quick and easy for me to do. I think you could make it work and retain stock functionality by implementing an additional relay which you would splice in between the existing relay and the solenoid. You could wire it to the new relay so that the circuit would be connected through the relay in its rested or non-energized state. Then if your failsafe trips it will energize the installed relay which would break the circuit and allow the solenoid to go into boost bypass mode. Does the computer throw a code if you unplug the bypass solenoid? If not it won't throw a code in this configuration. If it does you could connect a dummy solenoid or something that would simulate the solenoid load onto the other pin of your new relay so that even when your functioning solenoid circuit is open the car is still seeing a complete circuit through the dummy solenoid and wouldn't know the difference thus preventing it from throwing codes.
How do you wire it to IAT2 exactly? I assume the IAT2 sensor works on voltage drop so do you just have the signal re-route through a resistor or something to simulate a certain temperature reading? Just curious because I don't really know anything about splicing into ECU operations which is the main reason I went the route I did.
How do you wire it to IAT2 exactly? I assume the IAT2 sensor works on voltage drop so do you just have the signal re-route through a resistor or something to simulate a certain temperature reading? Just curious because I don't really know anything about splicing into ECU operations which is the main reason I went the route I did.
12-08-2017, 02:36 PM
#19
the ecm will set a code for the boost control solenoid if its unhooked. could wire a resistor to the relay to prevent the code, however its still possible it could pick up an open circuit while the relay is turning on/off. im just not going to mess with that.
temp sensors work where they are high resistance when they are cold and low resistance when hot. the sensor has a low refference wire (ground) and the signal wire is a low current 5v circuit. the ecm monitors the voltage on that wire. when the car is cold the voltage is closer to 5 volts, as it heats up resistance decreases and the voltage drops in that circuit. when the sensor gets unhooked the ecm will read it as -40*f, if the signal wire becomes shorted to ground it will read the max temp of the sensor (depends on the programming, top of our tables is 284*f, so that or higher).
hooking the failsafes ground output to the iat2 sensor signal wire will cause it to ground the temp signal and the ecm will see the max temp, somewhere above 284*f.
temp sensors work where they are high resistance when they are cold and low resistance when hot. the sensor has a low refference wire (ground) and the signal wire is a low current 5v circuit. the ecm monitors the voltage on that wire. when the car is cold the voltage is closer to 5 volts, as it heats up resistance decreases and the voltage drops in that circuit. when the sensor gets unhooked the ecm will read it as -40*f, if the signal wire becomes shorted to ground it will read the max temp of the sensor (depends on the programming, top of our tables is 284*f, so that or higher).
hooking the failsafes ground output to the iat2 sensor signal wire will cause it to ground the temp signal and the ecm will see the max temp, somewhere above 284*f.
12-08-2017, 04:57 PM
#20
Oh awesome. Looks like wiring it to IAT temp was much easier than I imagined. Didn't know you could just ground it for it to read max temp. Makes a lot of sense to go that route and I probably would if I wasn't tuned through trifecta and it was easier to modify my tune.