so i bought a porsche.......
Moderator
01-27-2018, 07:57 PM
#304
good, now i know what i have to do.
i spent the last couple days tearing the suspension out of the car and all apart, washed everything, and spent far too long burning bushings out. im hoping to get all the aluminum parts glass beaded, get the torsion tube painted, and have everything ready to start assembly.
i spent the last couple days tearing the suspension out of the car and all apart, washed everything, and spent far too long burning bushings out. im hoping to get all the aluminum parts glass beaded, get the torsion tube painted, and have everything ready to start assembly.
01-29-2018, 11:48 PM
#306
been plugging away at it some more, this is taking me way longer than i thought it would. i spent yesterday media blasting and cleaning everything, and managed to get everything painted.
here you can see the polybronze bushings installed in the torsion tube and the end caps. grease fittings have been installed in the torsion tube and end caps to allow them to be greased without having to pull the whole car apart.
and here it is bolted together ready to go into the car.
indexing the torsion bars correctly is a pain in the ass. i found a calculator online someone wrote just for this job. i had to take a bunch of measurements before i even took the car apart, then take more measurements on the bench before disassembling. the calculator figures out how much rotation angle was being used to support the car at ride height, and from that is figures how much rotation angle the new torsion bars will have, and gives you a dimension between axle centerline and the top of the torsion tube support (the piece of the torsion tube thats right above axle centerline) to put you back at the same ride height. now to index the torsion bars you have to assemble the torsion bars and spring plates, then bolt the trailing arm to on to get an accurate measurement, i did this a dozen times on one side before i got where i wanted. i got in a bit of a rush and tried to cheat the other side, i figured the 3/16" difference between the spring plate heights side to side was close enough, after assembling everything it turned into 3/4" at axle centerline, so i have to take one side apart again to match it. once that is sorted tomorrow itll go into the car, toss the wheels on and see how far out the ride height is. im told it usually takes 2 or 3 tries to get it right, so ill likely have to take it all back apart again. should be a lot simpler the 2nd time around, once you know how much the ride height has to change it can all be measured and adjusted on the bench.
here you can see the polybronze bushings installed in the torsion tube and the end caps. grease fittings have been installed in the torsion tube and end caps to allow them to be greased without having to pull the whole car apart.
and here it is bolted together ready to go into the car.
indexing the torsion bars correctly is a pain in the ass. i found a calculator online someone wrote just for this job. i had to take a bunch of measurements before i even took the car apart, then take more measurements on the bench before disassembling. the calculator figures out how much rotation angle was being used to support the car at ride height, and from that is figures how much rotation angle the new torsion bars will have, and gives you a dimension between axle centerline and the top of the torsion tube support (the piece of the torsion tube thats right above axle centerline) to put you back at the same ride height. now to index the torsion bars you have to assemble the torsion bars and spring plates, then bolt the trailing arm to on to get an accurate measurement, i did this a dozen times on one side before i got where i wanted. i got in a bit of a rush and tried to cheat the other side, i figured the 3/16" difference between the spring plate heights side to side was close enough, after assembling everything it turned into 3/4" at axle centerline, so i have to take one side apart again to match it. once that is sorted tomorrow itll go into the car, toss the wheels on and see how far out the ride height is. im told it usually takes 2 or 3 tries to get it right, so ill likely have to take it all back apart again. should be a lot simpler the 2nd time around, once you know how much the ride height has to change it can all be measured and adjusted on the bench.
01-31-2018, 12:21 AM
#308
i realised yesterday i didnt post any pics of the solid mounts i fabricated. this is the mount you start with, i had already tourched it apart and blasted the bracket when i took the pics
and after a couple pieces of angle iron, a couple bolts and some welding
simple way to save $240.
the car is almost back together. back to hating torsion bars, i ended up putting the suspension back in the car just enough to get the wheels on and set it on the ground to find it was sitting 2" too low. obviously the calculator i was using doesnt work worth a crap, although i had so much faith in it i didnt even have half the bolts in everything lol. pulled it all back out and apart, reclocked the torsion bars on the bench again, put it all back together and ended up with the car not quite 1/2" higher than it did before. i figure the torsion bars will sag a little so its not a big deal, and i do have the fine height adjustment cams i can play with. ended up getting most of it together today, i started to assemble the parking brake shoes (it uses a drum in disc style parking brake) only to find i lost a little pivot pin for the actuator mechanism. i ended up having to make one myself as hardware kits for these parking brakes is non existent.
just have the brakes to assemble and bleed, and a quick "oil can alignment" so its ok to drive to the alignment shop when i put it on the road. then its back into storage for a couple months till the weather gets better.
02-01-2018, 12:45 AM
#309
its all done. did a quick rip around the parking lot, it feels totally different. its sitting a little higher in the back than id like it, im hoping itll settle, but if it doesnt i should have enough adjustment to bring it down where it needs to be. itll get an alignment once it comes back out of storage, i was too worn out today to spend any time on getting it closer.
im already starting to plan out new sway bars, the puny 20mm front and 14mm rear (which was an option, many didnt come with a rear bar) isnt going to cut it. the popular upgrade is to use 968 sway bars that came with the m030 suspension package (essentially stiffer sway bars, koni adjustable coilovers), they are 28.5mm front and a 19mm rear with built in adjustment. however, im cooking something up that will not only cost less, but give me far more adjustability and options, and be way cooler.
im already starting to plan out new sway bars, the puny 20mm front and 14mm rear (which was an option, many didnt come with a rear bar) isnt going to cut it. the popular upgrade is to use 968 sway bars that came with the m030 suspension package (essentially stiffer sway bars, koni adjustable coilovers), they are 28.5mm front and a 19mm rear with built in adjustment. however, im cooking something up that will not only cost less, but give me far more adjustability and options, and be way cooler.
03-14-2018, 12:42 AM
#312
we had great weather the past few days, so i decided i was gonna dig the car out last week. well, one thing turned to another and i wasnt able to on the weekend, then i went to get the permit on monday to bring it home and couldnt find my registration papers, and then it rained today, so the car still hasnt moved.
after many many hours of research and a couple weeks waiting, some of my swaybar stuff showed up today
those right there are nascar/late model hollow splined sway bars from speedway engineering, and some unknown brand of aluminum arms with steel spline inserts.
the bolt in sway bar options for the 944 are out there, but the cost of them is outrageous. porsche made a set of sway bars for the 968 cup cars, it was a 30mm hollow front bar (later updated to a solid 28.5mm bar) and a 19mm rear bar. these bars can still be bought new, but the front bar is $600, and the rear is $300. these are most peoples go to setup, but there is some other options for adjustable sway bars, although one of the options have the adjustability my setup will have, and the cheapest is $500 per bar.
it took me a long time to sort out spring rates for the sway bars, i had to figure out roughly what spring rates the bolt in options were, and sort out what size bars to go from there. the options for what you can do with these types of sway bars is limitless, companies will make any length bars you want, in any diameter. off the shelf stuff almost limits you to a 37.5" long bar, but you can have diameters from 0.400" all the way to 2 5/8", and available in solid or hollow. the best part about being able to go with an off the shelf bar length is the cast off race parts. there are tons of these sway bars on ebay, some of the bars costing as little as $50. arms are a little harder to find used, new they come as a splined arm blank, usually in steel, and usually they get bent to a shape that works.
i ended up going with 1-1/4" 49 spline bars, meaning the bushings are 1-1/4" and the bar is cut down in between the bushings. i went with the smallest bar they make for the rear, a 0.910" and the front is a 1.180" bar, and they both are a 0.750" drilled center. with the length of the arms im running these sway bars will end up being softer than the 968 cup bars, however my overall suspension setup is softer overall than most people run with those bars so i think itll work well. the nice thing is once they are in the car, if the bars are the wrong size they are easy to change, and fairly cheap to buy.
once im able to mock some stuff up ill need to order some heim joints for the links and another set of arms. the arms i got for $50, ill end up having to cut them down significantly, and in reality i dont even know what end of the car they will go on.
after many many hours of research and a couple weeks waiting, some of my swaybar stuff showed up today
those right there are nascar/late model hollow splined sway bars from speedway engineering, and some unknown brand of aluminum arms with steel spline inserts.
the bolt in sway bar options for the 944 are out there, but the cost of them is outrageous. porsche made a set of sway bars for the 968 cup cars, it was a 30mm hollow front bar (later updated to a solid 28.5mm bar) and a 19mm rear bar. these bars can still be bought new, but the front bar is $600, and the rear is $300. these are most peoples go to setup, but there is some other options for adjustable sway bars, although one of the options have the adjustability my setup will have, and the cheapest is $500 per bar.
it took me a long time to sort out spring rates for the sway bars, i had to figure out roughly what spring rates the bolt in options were, and sort out what size bars to go from there. the options for what you can do with these types of sway bars is limitless, companies will make any length bars you want, in any diameter. off the shelf stuff almost limits you to a 37.5" long bar, but you can have diameters from 0.400" all the way to 2 5/8", and available in solid or hollow. the best part about being able to go with an off the shelf bar length is the cast off race parts. there are tons of these sway bars on ebay, some of the bars costing as little as $50. arms are a little harder to find used, new they come as a splined arm blank, usually in steel, and usually they get bent to a shape that works.
i ended up going with 1-1/4" 49 spline bars, meaning the bushings are 1-1/4" and the bar is cut down in between the bushings. i went with the smallest bar they make for the rear, a 0.910" and the front is a 1.180" bar, and they both are a 0.750" drilled center. with the length of the arms im running these sway bars will end up being softer than the 968 cup bars, however my overall suspension setup is softer overall than most people run with those bars so i think itll work well. the nice thing is once they are in the car, if the bars are the wrong size they are easy to change, and fairly cheap to buy.
once im able to mock some stuff up ill need to order some heim joints for the links and another set of arms. the arms i got for $50, ill end up having to cut them down significantly, and in reality i dont even know what end of the car they will go on.
03-15-2018, 04:15 PM
#314
i'm a fan of the 944s. they are kinda pieces of junk but a lot of cars in that era were.
the turbo ones are cool still spendy! the NA s2 is actually pretty fast.
a guy on another site is in the middle of doing a 5.3 in one. has it running and stuff but finishing up the little things.
i love the white one black leather and the later cooler wheels
the turbo ones are cool still spendy! the NA s2 is actually pretty fast.
a guy on another site is in the middle of doing a 5.3 in one. has it running and stuff but finishing up the little things.
i love the white one black leather and the later cooler wheels
03-15-2018, 09:44 PM
#315
im on a site called 944hybrids.com, is a site dedicated to engine swaps in the 924 944 and 968, as well as the 928. most of the swaps are ls engines, some guys with old smallblocks and lt1/lt4 engines, and a few oddballs like mine. there are some guys doing insane stuff with the 928, there is one with a coyote engine, another with a toyota 1gz 5.0l v12.
the transaxle porsche models get a bad rap, porsche guys view them as "not a real porsche". the 924 was a poor mans porsche, complete with vw engine. and as we here all know, being low in a manufacturers lineup instantly means your car "is a piece of crap." really i think the quality of the car is above what a normal 80s car is above average. fit and finish is pretty decent in mine. the biggest problem with the 944 is, and always has been, is the engines are junk. they suffer from oiling problems and often spin #2 rod bearing. the timing belt has to be changed every 30k miles, and readjusted at 15k miles. they arent easy to work on, arent that reliable, and dont make very much power. where the 944 makes up for it is in the suspension and weight balance.
there are some really cool looking 944 cars out there. porsche has always had cool wheel designs, and the cup 1 and turbo twist wheels took killer on a 944. red and white are the best colors, the blue my car is hides the lines of it.
the transaxle porsche models get a bad rap, porsche guys view them as "not a real porsche". the 924 was a poor mans porsche, complete with vw engine. and as we here all know, being low in a manufacturers lineup instantly means your car "is a piece of crap." really i think the quality of the car is above what a normal 80s car is above average. fit and finish is pretty decent in mine. the biggest problem with the 944 is, and always has been, is the engines are junk. they suffer from oiling problems and often spin #2 rod bearing. the timing belt has to be changed every 30k miles, and readjusted at 15k miles. they arent easy to work on, arent that reliable, and dont make very much power. where the 944 makes up for it is in the suspension and weight balance.
there are some really cool looking 944 cars out there. porsche has always had cool wheel designs, and the cup 1 and turbo twist wheels took killer on a 944. red and white are the best colors, the blue my car is hides the lines of it.
03-16-2018, 12:51 AM
#317
the 996 was their first water cooled boxer engine, and it had a tone of issues. from porous blocks, to breaking rod bolts, wearing out the cast in cylinder liners prematurely or just cracking them, and an oiling system that was completely inadequate for the type of car its in. on top of it the oil change intervals were listed at 15,000 miles.
03-16-2018, 07:13 PM
#318
its back home finally. its been almost a year since ive driven it, went for a bit of a drive and i remember why i loved the thing so much. the suspension changes i made were well worth it, and although i havent gotten an alignment yet, but its amazing how much more planted the car is. the car used to go into a corner nice, and then would unsettle as the old rubber bushings deflected, im happy to say thats all gone now. im happy with the size torsion bars i went with, the car feels neutral with no hint of oversteer. im looking forward to getting the sway bar setup built as the car does still have a fair amount of body roll.
power is insane in a car this light. yea, its got turbo lag, but man when it spools does it ever pull. its a little weird cause im trying to get used to the steeper final drive ratio in this transmission. i went from 3.89 down to 3.38, not the idea ratio for a strung out 4 cylinder, but the 3.89 ratio is known for being weaker, so i chose power holding. the good thing is first gear is actually usable, rolling into the throttle and it doesnt hardly spin the tires, and just a little squirmy after shifting into 2nd gear, just hooks and charges.
i do have a list of things i gotta tackle though. i started the day off with a stuck open thermostat, couldnt get the car past 140*f. after driving in some traffic it finally got to 180, but it kept dropping from there. the never ending brake saga continues, i figured they would take a while to get some bite again, but after a pile of heavy braking they suck as bad as ever, and i dont get any smell. i adjusted the bias way to the front and it really doesnt add any front braking power.at minimum im gonna pull the front calipers apart, i might have a sticking piston, but with the problems ive had im thinking its wisest to just ditch them and go with something else.
03-20-2018, 01:06 AM
#323
would get real annoying having to pack the parachute after every corner.
ive done a bunch more reading, found some info from someone else using ebc redstuff pads in a manual brake car and said they were terrible. what it seemed to get down to is the redstuff pads need a fair amount of pressure to work decent, something thats not an issue in a typical boosted system, and they tend to be aimed at performance sedans, but not for track use. ive sent an email to Carbotech, they will make any brake pad you want in any compound they have. a few of the 944 guys with this same brake setup have used them with good results. they are kind of expensive, but i past that i dont know what else to try. ive got the best setup for master cylinders, all the math works out on master cylinder and caliper bore sizes, and the exact setup works on other cars, the only difference is i cant find anyone else who has used this setup with ebc redstuff pads. the only other thing went with aftermarket calipers like a wilwood, and i just dont have the budget for that right now.
ive done a bunch more reading, found some info from someone else using ebc redstuff pads in a manual brake car and said they were terrible. what it seemed to get down to is the redstuff pads need a fair amount of pressure to work decent, something thats not an issue in a typical boosted system, and they tend to be aimed at performance sedans, but not for track use. ive sent an email to Carbotech, they will make any brake pad you want in any compound they have. a few of the 944 guys with this same brake setup have used them with good results. they are kind of expensive, but i past that i dont know what else to try. ive got the best setup for master cylinders, all the math works out on master cylinder and caliper bore sizes, and the exact setup works on other cars, the only difference is i cant find anyone else who has used this setup with ebc redstuff pads. the only other thing went with aftermarket calipers like a wilwood, and i just dont have the budget for that right now.
03-21-2018, 07:58 PM
#324
talked to the guy at carbotech today. for what im doing with the car he recommended a set of their xp8 pads. it is a pad for track use, but he said they dont need heat to work and are fine on the street. reviews i read seem to say the same thing. i was looking at their autocross compound, but they figured even taking it easy on a track day i could overheat them. im hoping these do the trick, they are bloody expensive.
i did get the thermostat checked off my list yesterday. didnt see anything wrong with the old one, im gonna guess after i drove the car home it unstuck and closed again.
i did get the thermostat checked off my list yesterday. didnt see anything wrong with the old one, im gonna guess after i drove the car home it unstuck and closed again.
03-23-2018, 02:44 PM
#325
Senior Member
the transaxle porsche models get a bad rap, porsche guys view them as "not a real porsche". the 924 was a poor mans porsche, complete with vw engine. and as we here all know, being low in a manufacturers lineup instantly means your car "is a piece of crap." really i think the quality of the car is above what a normal 80s car is above average. fit and finish is pretty decent in mine. the biggest problem with the 944 is, and always has been, is the engines are junk. they suffer from oiling problems and often spin #2 rod bearing. the timing belt has to be changed every 30k miles, and readjusted at 15k miles. they arent easy to work on, arent that reliable, and dont make very much power. where the 944 makes up for it is in the suspension and weight balance.
I've always wanted a 944 Turbo S Silver Rose. I really want cloth interiors with pizazz to come back into style. 1988 Porsche 944 Turbo S Silver Rose | German Cars For Sale Blog
the 996 was their first water cooled boxer engine, and it had a tone of issues. from porous blocks, to breaking rod bolts, wearing out the cast in cylinder liners prematurely or just cracking them, and an oiling system that was completely inadequate for the type of car its in. on top of it the oil change intervals were listed at 15,000 miles.
