Autocross and Road Racing Road racing is not “street racing”

Want to enter my first race, question.

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jun 4, 2013 | 03:05 PM
  #26  
scottherbert's Avatar
Member
 
Joined: 08-22-08
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
Here's the suspension pieces:

XXX rear bar - Koni adjustable shocks:
Name:  XXXRight-EibachProkitSpringKoniShock.jpg
Views: 2122
Size:  89.4 KB

Name:  XXXCenterView.jpg
Views: 425
Size:  87.9 KB

The various rear bars I've used over time:
Name:  3-bars.jpg
Views: 334
Size:  116.6 KB

Front struts and rear springs -- Eiback coilover springs:
Name:  GroundControlkitEibachSprings700lbfronts-650lbrearsKonistrutcartridgesBGcamberplatesmod.jpg
Views: 353
Size:  103.5 KB
Reply
Old Jun 4, 2013 | 03:06 PM
  #27  
redcobalt07's Avatar
Senior Member
iTrader: (18)
 
Joined: 12-06-09
Posts: 5,950
Likes: 0
From: Harrisburg, PA
How the heck do those wheels fit?!
Reply
Old Jun 4, 2013 | 05:37 PM
  #28  
c130aviator's Avatar
Thread Starter
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Joined: 09-19-07
Posts: 3,811
Likes: 5
From: LR, AR
scott, do you daily drive that thing?
Reply
Old Jun 4, 2013 | 05:42 PM
  #29  
scottherbert's Avatar
Member
 
Joined: 08-22-08
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
Originally Posted by redcobalt07
How the heck do those wheels fit?!
I had custom wheel adapters made with a 25mm positive offset -- the wheels have a very large negative offset -- they clear the struts by about 1/2". I've had to pound down the ridge at the back of the fender well so they clear and there's a spot up front where they want to rub at lock -- so I used a small sledge to bump the fender well in some. With Eibach 800 lb springs up front and 550 lbs in the rear, even lowered, with about 4 degrees of negative camber, nothing rubs. I also have the rear shimmed negative to about -1.55 degrees of negative.

Camber plates:

Name:  KoniinsertGCpartsEibach7in650lbspring43.jpg
Views: 273
Size:  67.8 KB

Various springs:

Name:  Some25inIDsprings.jpg
Views: 302
Size:  100.8 KB

Custom made wheel adapter -- 5 x 110 inner, 5 x 114 outer -- both use the stock lugnuts:

Name:  Studs12mmx15stocksize.jpg
Views: 333
Size:  103.2 KB

Name:  Steellugsattachtohub.jpg
Views: 330
Size:  96.6 KB

Name:  StandardCobaltlubnuts.jpg
Views: 284
Size:  113.7 KB

Name:  Hub-centrictoWheel.jpg
Views: 352
Size:  108.7 KB

Name:  Hub-centrictoHub.jpg
Views: 273
Size:  159.9 KB

Name:  Adapter25mm-1inthhick.jpg
Views: 341
Size:  107.2 KB

Name:  Adapterhub-centrictoAMRwheel.jpg
Views: 335
Size:  86.3 KB

tire clearance:

Name:  Innermostclearance-wheeltiretostrut-aquarterinch.jpg
Views: 326
Size:  78.3 KB

Fender modifying tools and fender mods:

Name:  Lipmodtools-smallsledgehammersteelpipecappedatbothends.jpg
Views: 302
Size:  159.4 KB

Name:  Hoosierrubsinsidefrontaleftlock.jpg
Views: 394
Size:  84.4 KB

Name:  Metallipatbackinsidefrontwheelwell.jpg
Views: 263
Size:  60.2 KB

Name:  Problemeliminated-nomorerubbing.jpg
Views: 333
Size:  77.4 KB

Name:  Modtorearlip.jpg
Views: 329
Size:  81.9 KB

Results and tires:

Name:  Lookingback.jpg
Views: 279
Size:  90.1 KB

Name:  AMRTorqueThrustM18inx10inwheel.jpg
Views: 297
Size:  110.2 KB

Tires -- Left to right -- stock 18", Hoosier 285/30 x 18, Hoosier 255/35 x 18, 245 x 17s -- all work:

Name:  4Tires-LtoR-225x40x18stockwheeltire285x30x18Hoosier255x35x18Hoosier245x45x17HankookR2S.jpg
Views: 646
Size:  148.4 KB

Enought info?
Reply
Old Jun 4, 2013 | 07:21 PM
  #30  
redcobalt07's Avatar
Senior Member
iTrader: (18)
 
Joined: 12-06-09
Posts: 5,950
Likes: 0
From: Harrisburg, PA
Epic clean cars.
Reply
Old Jun 4, 2013 | 07:41 PM
  #31  
Mark Aubele's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: 03-23-10
Posts: 1,140
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Originally Posted by EXsoccer1921
idk about autocross sanctioning bodies. but drag racing you cannot use a bike or atv, etc helmet. it has to be sn approved. crashing on a bike is different than crashing in a car. a bike will not trap you inside on fire. totally different rating.
Everyone has said you need a Snell SN, which is a motorcycle helmet and OK to every dragstrip test and tune, bracket for reasonable street cars and track day I have been to. The SA rating is for automobiles, and is required for actual road racing, time trial, and hillclimb, and very well may be required under a certain Et at the dragstrip, not sure on that one.
Reply
Old Jun 4, 2013 | 08:06 PM
  #32  
Rick Bragstad's Avatar
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: 07-13-10
Posts: 545
Likes: 0
From: Corona, CA
Just another place to get racing gear. SafeRacer - Auto Racing Safety Equipment, Auto Racing Gear, Auto Racing Helmets, Auto Racing Suits - SafeRacer
The first time I tracked my car I rented a helmet, then bought one immediately after. Addicted.
Reply
Old Jun 4, 2013 | 08:09 PM
  #33  
EXsoccer1921's Avatar
Senior Member
Platinum Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Joined: 05-04-08
Posts: 36,934
Likes: 2
From: The 405
ah yeah you're correct. got my letter mixed up.
Reply
Old Jun 4, 2013 | 11:04 PM
  #34  
scottherbert's Avatar
Member
 
Joined: 08-22-08
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
Originally Posted by c130aviator
scott, do you daily drive that thing?
With Eibach Prokit springs, yes, it's been a daily driver. I use Powell front cabs, I have a front frame cross brace, added stainless steel braided brake lines, I run Hawk HP+ front pads and stock rear pads, I have a cold air, a GM stage I flash, and I have a custom bent 3" id cat back, resonator deleted, and a 14" x 3" id glasspack. It runspretty well. Almost forgot, steering rack spacers.
Reply
Old Jun 4, 2013 | 11:20 PM
  #35  
c130aviator's Avatar
Thread Starter
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Joined: 09-19-07
Posts: 3,811
Likes: 5
From: LR, AR
do you guys race with full faced helmets? Open faced helmets? What is a good link to under 200 dollar helmets?
Reply
Old Jun 4, 2013 | 11:29 PM
  #36  
Sox-Fan's Avatar
Got Brakes?
Platinum Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Joined: 12-23-09
Posts: 12,643
Likes: 7
From: Mt. Pleasant S.C.
Mine is a full face Bell. I've seen a lot of pros and cons discussions of a full face helmet with an airbag car.

Can get pretty hot for sure.

Oh, I got mine at http://www.motorcyclecloseouts.com/ If you watch there they occasionally have good deals on good Snell SN and SA helmets. You have to keep watching though.

Last edited by Sox-Fan; Jun 4, 2013 at 11:34 PM.
Reply
Old Jun 4, 2013 | 11:34 PM
  #37  
c130aviator's Avatar
Thread Starter
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Joined: 09-19-07
Posts: 3,811
Likes: 5
From: LR, AR
what do you all think of zamp or ja-2?
Reply
Old Jun 4, 2013 | 11:49 PM
  #38  
Rick Bragstad's Avatar
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: 07-13-10
Posts: 545
Likes: 0
From: Corona, CA
First, find out if you can rent a helmet for the day. If you can that's the way to go for your first track day. You'll be able to try different sizes and get a feel for what's comfortable. Ditto what Sox said about airbags. I have a full face helmet, but my friend has an open face helmet. Summertime racing in 105 degrees SUCKS! Also, balaclava. It's a head sock you wear under the helmet that soaks up sweat that you can wash after a track day.
Reply
Old Jun 4, 2013 | 11:55 PM
  #39  
c130aviator's Avatar
Thread Starter
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Joined: 09-19-07
Posts: 3,811
Likes: 5
From: LR, AR
thanks, i have a similar head sock from my time flying in Iraq/Afghanistan. They work awesome, I was seeing 140 degrees in the dead of summer and was soaked as if I was swimming in my flight suit.

They do have rental helmets, I will wait to try one on as you have suggested.
Reply
Old Jun 5, 2013 | 12:10 AM
  #40  
Rick Bragstad's Avatar
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: 07-13-10
Posts: 545
Likes: 0
From: Corona, CA
Definately do some research on helmets before you buy one. And a side note, I'm a pipeline operator that ships gas, diesel, and aviation to Arizona. Just sent a batch of military aviation fuel, you might be burning what I'm sending. On the track and in the air.
Reply
Old Jun 5, 2013 | 12:15 AM
  #41  
c130aviator's Avatar
Thread Starter
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Joined: 09-19-07
Posts: 3,811
Likes: 5
From: LR, AR
That would be awesome! I am flying tomorrow actually but AR is Arkansas, AZ is Arizona. I get that a lot though.
Reply
Old Jun 5, 2013 | 06:31 AM
  #42  
Crav3's Avatar
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: 04-25-12
Posts: 1,862
Likes: 5
From: Laredo
Originally Posted by scottherbert
Here's the suspension pieces:

XXX rear bar - Koni adjustable shocks:




The various rear bars I've used over time:


Front struts and rear springs -- Eiback coilover springs:
Where did you get the eibach springs and for how much? Also how disbyou get them to stay still in the rear?
Reply
Old Jun 5, 2013 | 07:03 AM
  #43  
ECaulk's Avatar
Senior Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Joined: 07-19-10
Posts: 26,529
Likes: 841
From: Houston, Texas
This thread is great, i'm looking to get started participating in some auto x. Gotta have the money to fix broken parts saved up first though.

Scott when is the next auto-x even in colorado? I'd like to go watch and get a feel for how things happen (I would race but a few things need to be addressed on the car before I auto-x it)
Reply
Old Jun 5, 2013 | 11:31 AM
  #44  
scottherbert's Avatar
Member
 
Joined: 08-22-08
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
Originally Posted by c130aviator
do you guys race with full faced helmets? Open faced helmets? What is a good link to under 200 dollar helmets?
As was mentioned, an open face is recommended by SCCA for airbag equiped cars. Getting smacked on a full-face chin bar by an air bag is not a good way to stay heathly.
Reply
Old Jun 5, 2013 | 11:52 AM
  #45  
scottherbert's Avatar
Member
 
Joined: 08-22-08
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
Originally Posted by Crav3
Where did you get the eibach springs and for how much? Also how disbyou get them to stay still in the rear?
The front struts are stock struts I cut and installed Koni adjustable cartridges in them. I modified a set of camber plates to work on my car with Konis.

I originally bought my spring kit from Ground Control (they no longer make the Cobalt kit -- who know, a phone call might work) and they came with Eibachs. I subsequently bought a variety of Eibachs -- various weights and lengths (the Ground Control kit came with 8" rear springs and 6' x 150 lb front springs) as I experimented over time. I now have quite a few different spring weights and I run 6" or 7" rear springs rather then the original 8" rears. The way coilover springs rate is lbs/inch of compression -- Eibachs are linear not progressive springs -- so with a 450lb spring, it takes 450 lbs of load for each inch of compression -- pretty stiff.

My car is lowered to drop the CG, not for looks, and it takes much stiffer springs to keep the body off the tires under turning load (I'll drag up some photos of my local competition to give you some examples).

The springs don't come out unless you unbolt the rear shocks.

Eibachs and other brands of coilover springs can be bought at reasonable prices online.

HP isn't important -- turning and stopping are much more important. I can spin both 285 Hoosiers (hot) in 1st gear and I can light them up again in a corner in 2nd -- throttle control is more important than HP.

When I autocross, I disconnect the front sway bar entirely by removing one connector, I'm running very stiff springs and more negative camber, and it works best -- the least tire spin the the front sticks best. At speed, at the edge, the car will oversteer slightly in a corner and will definitely oversteer under heavy braking while turning (sounds like an old turbo Porche).
Reply
Old Jun 5, 2013 | 12:11 PM
  #46  
scottherbert's Avatar
Member
 
Joined: 08-22-08
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
I've won a couple of National Tour Events, and went to the US Nationals back in 09, but I almost alway end up 2nd - 4th. The local competition in the Denver/Colorado Springs area is tough -- 4 BMWs and a VW R32 -- rear wheel drive and all wheel drive -- and they've all won the SCCA US Nationals at least once each. Here are some samples of the local competition:

Name:  BMWcompetition2.jpg
Views: 309
Size:  212.3 KB

The R32 is a National Pro-Solo champion.
Name:  VWR32competition.jpg
Views: 329
Size:  213.1 KB

Name:  BMWcompetition.jpg
Views: 303
Size:  141.5 KB

I used to run DS -- but a local guy is the 4 times national champion so I decided to switch to DSP/STX. I didn't realize how tough it is up in DSP around here.

Here's the schedule for events in the Rocky Mountain area Rocky Mountain Solo Series - Schedule. You can easily get rides with people if you want to check things out -- there are some really great cars and drivers in this area. I suspect that there are more National Champions in this are than in any other SCCA area (don't know why, but there are a lot of really competitive people). Best part, they're all easy to get along with and are uniformly willing to help, offer advice, make suggestions.

Enjoy.

Last edited by scottherbert; Jun 5, 2013 at 01:14 PM.
Reply
Old Jun 6, 2013 | 02:13 PM
  #47  
Crav3's Avatar
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: 04-25-12
Posts: 1,862
Likes: 5
From: Laredo
Originally Posted by scottherbert
The front struts are stock struts I cut and installed Koni adjustable cartridges in them. I modified a set of camber plates to work on my car with Konis.

I originally bought my spring kit from Ground Control (they no longer make the Cobalt kit -- who know, a phone call might work) and they came with Eibachs. I subsequently bought a variety of Eibachs -- various weights and lengths (the Ground Control kit came with 8" rear springs and 6' x 150 lb front springs) as I experimented over time. I now have quite a few different spring weights and I run 6" or 7" rear springs rather then the original 8" rears. The way coilover springs rate is lbs/inch of compression -- Eibachs are linear not progressive springs -- so with a 450lb spring, it takes 450 lbs of load for each inch of compression -- pretty stiff.

My car is lowered to drop the CG, not for looks, and it takes much stiffer springs to keep the body off the tires under turning load (I'll drag up some photos of my local competition to give you some examples).

The springs don't come out unless you unbolt the rear shocks.

Eibachs and other brands of coilover springs can be bought at reasonable prices online.

HP isn't important -- turning and stopping are much more important. I can spin both 285 Hoosiers (hot) in 1st gear and I can light them up again in a corner in 2nd -- throttle control is more important than HP.

When I autocross, I disconnect the front sway bar entirely by removing one connector, I'm running very stiff springs and more negative camber, and it works best -- the least tire spin the the front sticks best. At speed, at the edge, the car will oversteer slightly in a corner and will definitely oversteer under heavy braking while turning (sounds like an old turbo Porche).
Oh I see. I wanted some stiffer springs. I really want to get into the autocross but no competitions here haha. Reall looking into doing suspesion upgrades and maybe go to one when I hear of an event close to me lol
Reply
Old Jun 6, 2013 | 04:22 PM
  #48  
scottherbert's Avatar
Member
 
Joined: 08-22-08
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
If you just want to improve the suspension, but want a 'driveable' car when you're done, I'd recommend Eibach Pro-Kit springs -- sriffer and progressive but not lowering springs and not totally harsh, and I'm a fan of Koni adjustables for front and back (it's really pretty easy to do -- I have photos is you want them). I use the above when I drive on the street -- and I've autocrossed with them on multiple occasions on 'steet' type tires.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
RaginChopsuey
War Stories
16
Oct 27, 2015 01:27 PM
Jimmy Beilfuss
2.0L LNF Performance Tech
29
Oct 5, 2015 04:18 AM
maliki778
Dyno Results
4
Oct 1, 2015 07:39 PM
SSLOW06
Complete Cars
1
Oct 1, 2015 07:21 PM
Bohb
New Members Check In!!
3
Sep 27, 2015 09:11 PM




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:01 AM.