WARNING to autocrossers!
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 05-25-05
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Posts: 1,244
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WARNING to autocrossers!
If you are autocrossing a Cobat SS S/C (don't know if others are affected), you may want to replace your steering knuckles.
I was at an autocross event today and some of the GM Tech Center employees were autocrossing some GM Corporate vehicles. There were two or three solstice's and one Cobalt SS S/C. Well, after about 6-7 runs, the Cobalt comes around a sharp left turn that immediately transitions into a right and right after the transition, the left front of the Cobalt dropped. The wheel was completely caved into the fender and had to be moved off of the course on wheel dollies. The GM employees said that they knew it would probably not last.
I know that GM is offering steering knuckles for competition use for the Cobalt, which should be much stronger than stock. I will post the GM document ASAP that describes the competition knuckle, but I have to find it.
I was at an autocross event today and some of the GM Tech Center employees were autocrossing some GM Corporate vehicles. There were two or three solstice's and one Cobalt SS S/C. Well, after about 6-7 runs, the Cobalt comes around a sharp left turn that immediately transitions into a right and right after the transition, the left front of the Cobalt dropped. The wheel was completely caved into the fender and had to be moved off of the course on wheel dollies. The GM employees said that they knew it would probably not last.
I know that GM is offering steering knuckles for competition use for the Cobalt, which should be much stronger than stock. I will post the GM document ASAP that describes the competition knuckle, but I have to find it.
Last edited by red_wing_2121; 05-06-2006 at 08:46 PM.
#2
ive heard this could be a problem, do you know if it is also an issue with the ls models? why would gm release a so called sports compact that cant take the abuse they know its gonna have to endure. well 2 1/2 years till i trade up anyway, hopefully itll make it.
#3
#4
This actually might be a blessing in disguise for autocrossers who are looking to stay in the stock classes and obtain as much negative camer as possible. It looks like the replacement knuckle will allow for as much as -2.25 degrees of negative camber. Does anyone know how much is available in the original knuckle?
At any rate, for those that are driving competitively, this is definitely something to look into not just for a performance advantage, but also for safety.
At any rate, for those that are driving competitively, this is definitely something to look into not just for a performance advantage, but also for safety.
#6
im pretty sure if you have your knuckles replaced you cant stay in the stock class. the scca doesnt care if gm suggests they be replaced, as far as theyre concerned its not a stock suspension piece and therefore not elegible for stock class. the only changes you can make is a change of shocks(when theyre released), catback, an alternate air filter element, and wheels of the same size and offset.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: 06-27-05
Location: NEW JERSEY
Posts: 592
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I noticed this info awhile back in GM Service Info. I attempted to get info from GM on price and avail., but they had no info and the #'s weren't any good at the time. This was about 1.5 months ago, though.
#8
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 05-25-05
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Posts: 1,244
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by bluebaltjim
im pretty sure if you have your knuckles replaced you cant stay in the stock class. the scca doesnt care if gm suggests they be replaced, as far as theyre concerned its not a stock suspension piece and therefore not elegible for stock class. the only changes you can make is a change of shocks(when theyre released), catback, an alternate air filter element, and wheels of the same size and offset.
You can also change the front stabilizer bar!
#9
Senior Member
besides the ability of possible larger avalible suspension changes in camber and such whats so differant about these then the stockers?
I ask this becasue i've broken my rite front whell hub...it brooke for a a un-known reason so are these made any differant?
I ask this becasue i've broken my rite front whell hub...it brooke for a a un-known reason so are these made any differant?
#10
Originally Posted by bluebaltjim
im pretty sure if you have your knuckles replaced you cant stay in the stock class. the scca doesnt care if gm suggests they be replaced, as far as theyre concerned its not a stock suspension piece and therefore not elegible for stock class. the only changes you can make is a change of shocks(when theyre released), catback, an alternate air filter element, and wheels of the same size and offset.
John Heinricy, if you're reading this, have that wording changed in the TSB to something like "heavy-duty replacement" so that it would be a legal stock class change .
#11
Senior Member
Originally Posted by NJBLUESS
I noticed this info awhile back in GM Service Info. I attempted to get info from GM on price and avail., but they had no info and the #'s weren't any good at the time. This was about 1.5 months ago, though.
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: 06-27-05
Location: NEW JERSEY
Posts: 592
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by alleycat58
Do you happen to have the part numbers?
88958711=RT knuckle
I will check into these some more to see if they exsist yet.
#15
perhaps it's stronger because initially it was never imagined the car would be used in this type of every day driving scenario until they decided to make this up to handle the issues people might be having with them in a non-autocross situation
Last edited by RedCavyRS99; 07-09-2006 at 12:30 PM.
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: 06-27-05
Location: NEW JERSEY
Posts: 592
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just checked, the #'s are not on file, but are avail. from source and stock is avail. (the dealer needs to call Partec for avail.) The cost, ouch, but maybe worth it for the strength. List is $335 each, cost would be around $300 each.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: 09-25-05
Location: Greensburg
Posts: 589
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by conemark
This actually might be a blessing in disguise for autocrossers who are looking to stay in the stock classes and obtain as much negative camer as possible. It looks like the replacement knuckle will allow for as much as -2.25 degrees of negative camber. Does anyone know how much is available in the original knuckle?
At any rate, for those that are driving competitively, this is definitely something to look into not just for a performance advantage, but also for safety.
At any rate, for those that are driving competitively, this is definitely something to look into not just for a performance advantage, but also for safety.
...the steering knuckles don't affect the alignment. Those are the stock alignment specs for the SS/SC...not something that is changed by steering knuckles. It says that in the bulletin if you read through it (I actually had to read it twice to get that though)...something to the effect of to inform about the availability of the knuckles and to inform those interested in the proper alignment specs for the car.
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: 09-17-05
Location: Norwich NY
Posts: 1,888
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by bluebaltjim
im pretty sure if you have your knuckles replaced you cant stay in the stock class. the scca doesnt care if gm suggests they be replaced, as far as theyre concerned its not a stock suspension piece and therefore not elegible for stock class. the only changes you can make is a change of shocks(when theyre released), catback, an alternate air filter element, and wheels of the same size and offset.
#19
Originally Posted by italstalnprd86
how would scca know if you have changed them? i mean couldnt you change them, and still say it was stock? i dont know how they inspect the car, but i wouldnt think they would go and look to see if they are stock or not, and it isnt like the new gm ones have like aftermarket knuckle written on them..... again i have never auto x'd before, so i dont know how scca would find out...???
As far as any alignment advantages, as fastSS06 pointed out, there is none to be had. I mistakenly thought the steering knuckle would have been the entire hub.
#20
Banned
Join Date: 03-14-06
Location: soon to banned as I am from MANITOBA?
Posts: 3,660
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
GMP ST racing team uses grand am knuckles and hubs up front and Grand Hubs only in the rear (not sure about the rear if it is just hubs). then they redrill the rotors to fit. this was also seen on the show tuner challenge for the time attack build.
is this the same part? is the hub strong enough for competition? GM lead me to believe the grand am hubs were better?
another thing is wheels are no longer useful but if you want a specific rim now there is far more available in the grand am bolt pattern
is this the same part? is the hub strong enough for competition? GM lead me to believe the grand am hubs were better?
another thing is wheels are no longer useful but if you want a specific rim now there is far more available in the grand am bolt pattern
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: 03-16-05
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 2,335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by conemark
At any SCCA sancitoned autocross, there is what is known as "impound", where fellow competitors can examine each other's car for conformity to the rules. If a competitor's car is found to be in violation of the rules, a protest can be filed and the results for that competitor can be disqualified. Usually these impounds do not happen at the local level, and for the most part, locally, the guys who are winning may not care if you are running a part that is "for competitive purposes", but at bigger national events, that is something that will get protested without a second though.
As far as any alignment advantages, as fastSS06 pointed out, there is none to be had. I mistakenly thought the steering knuckle would have been the entire hub.
As far as any alignment advantages, as fastSS06 pointed out, there is none to be had. I mistakenly thought the steering knuckle would have been the entire hub.
#22
Originally Posted by tiny
right, but i really doubt anybody would know the difference between a stock knuckle and the replacement
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: 02-28-06
Location: Greensburg (PA)
Posts: 950
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Put a call in to GM found out that the steering knuckles do indeed exist for the right and left front at $270.00 each..!!! It probably requires disassembly by a press and hub puller as well. Doing more research now on these.
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: 05-01-06
Location: Irwin,PA
Posts: 2,989
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Zerocool4211
Anyone hear anything else on this or have a knuckle blow out on them?
Well, I spent the whole weekend at the track auto-xing .... and no issues here. Made a 65 mile trip back home as well.
I still have thought about getting them this fall just in case....lol