Turbo Tech Racing LNF Intake Manifold!!
11-02-2012, 01:14 PM
#277
Former Vendor
Matt,
Test in post #1 was done a week prior to the creation of this thread. He tested a few concepts back 6 months ago for us, this was the best design, so we refined it and put it through the ropes for 6 months. No idea which order he dynod them.
Just have to ask, when is the last time ZZP preformed the same above requested (and some other previous requests in this thread) process for your product(s)? (videos, usb charts, data logs, etc.)
Furthermore your test have always been 1st hand/ZZP test. Have you ever had any products independtly tested (3rd party)? Our test is a 3rd party test. Richard has nothing to gain by this.
I can see a USB for the dyno runs, which I think he did last time (not sure). I highly doubt Richard will hand it over to you. Just becuase you are "ZZP" does not mean you can push your weight around, you are no different than any other company. Pwerks, Powell, etc all make great products too.
These are all things we can sure do, but what makes ZZP any different that they dont do this (or publish this), but asks other company(s) to?
Being the number of units we have already sold to date, it will not be long before one ends up on a customers car, and you are able to see first hand.
Matt you just need to sit back, wait and what Richard provides, is what he provides. If you dont like it, trust it, or whatever it is, sorry... We will never make everyone happy. Again I am sure you will have your first hand chance soon enough, as we know many of our other manifolds on LSJ conversion kits have made it through ZZP. If you dont want to "spread the word" on our product yet, becuase you are not sure, then don't... You will have your chance when it comes.
Test in post #1 was done a week prior to the creation of this thread. He tested a few concepts back 6 months ago for us, this was the best design, so we refined it and put it through the ropes for 6 months. No idea which order he dynod them.
Just have to ask, when is the last time ZZP preformed the same above requested (and some other previous requests in this thread) process for your product(s)? (videos, usb charts, data logs, etc.)
Furthermore your test have always been 1st hand/ZZP test. Have you ever had any products independtly tested (3rd party)? Our test is a 3rd party test. Richard has nothing to gain by this.
I can see a USB for the dyno runs, which I think he did last time (not sure). I highly doubt Richard will hand it over to you. Just becuase you are "ZZP" does not mean you can push your weight around, you are no different than any other company. Pwerks, Powell, etc all make great products too.
These are all things we can sure do, but what makes ZZP any different that they dont do this (or publish this), but asks other company(s) to?
Being the number of units we have already sold to date, it will not be long before one ends up on a customers car, and you are able to see first hand.
Matt you just need to sit back, wait and what Richard provides, is what he provides. If you dont like it, trust it, or whatever it is, sorry... We will never make everyone happy. Again I am sure you will have your first hand chance soon enough, as we know many of our other manifolds on LSJ conversion kits have made it through ZZP. If you dont want to "spread the word" on our product yet, becuase you are not sure, then don't... You will have your chance when it comes.
I understand that you are not performing the dyno test, but it is by no means "3rd party." People like to defned their purchase and the products that they are involved in just the same as companies like to defned the parts that they build. There is no difference there.
The reason I don't trust the testing is because we already discovered a significant flaw in the data collection process the first time around.
I'm not trying to push any weight around. I am simply stating that I would like to see the data in order to determine if we should use these on our customers' cars. We don't install any other parts on their cars that we have not dyno tested adequately, so these will not be any different. If the data that I am looking for is provided, then I will consider it as good as performing our own dyno test. It will save everyone the trouble and we can then make an educated decision. If we are told no, then I will have to wonder what part of the test needs to be hidden. Maybe that is not justified, but you can't blame me for wondering why certain parts of the dyno test need to be kept from the public.
11-02-2012, 01:23 PM
#278
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i can't trust those numbers. you want zero doubt proof? do it the exact same day.
aside from this, it's a graph showing something is different. clearly things are not matching up.
it's like dynoing a car in the summer, vs the winter. if you know anything about a dyno ad how weather affects it, you will see what im getting at.
so, do yourself a favor. stock manifold vs the box. same car, same day, same weather conditions.
aside from this, it's a graph showing something is different. clearly things are not matching up.
it's like dynoing a car in the summer, vs the winter. if you know anything about a dyno ad how weather affects it, you will see what im getting at.
so, do yourself a favor. stock manifold vs the box. same car, same day, same weather conditions.
11-02-2012, 02:36 PM
#281
i can't trust those numbers. you want zero doubt proof? do it the exact same day.
aside from this, it's a graph showing something is different. clearly things are not matching up.
it's like dynoing a car in the summer, vs the winter. if you know anything about a dyno ad how weather affects it, you will see what im getting at.
so, do yourself a favor. stock manifold vs the box. same car, same day, same weather conditions.
aside from this, it's a graph showing something is different. clearly things are not matching up.
it's like dynoing a car in the summer, vs the winter. if you know anything about a dyno ad how weather affects it, you will see what im getting at.
so, do yourself a favor. stock manifold vs the box. same car, same day, same weather conditions.
Matt - Again take what you see/get, and if you dont like it, sorry. We are not forcing you to sell it or even recommend it. You act like if ZZP doesnt recommend it no one will buy it.
I guess that is why we sold a hand full already.
11-02-2012, 03:27 PM
#282
Former Vendor
I didn't say anything like that, but we all know that no matter good business is, it can always be better. Plus my main concern was my own customers. If the information is not going to be there, and we can not dyno test one, then I guess we decline and we will look elsewhere. Sorry for the inconvenience.
11-02-2012, 03:33 PM
#283
I didn't say anything like that, but we all know that no matter good business is, it can always be better. Plus my main concern was my own customers. If the information is not going to be there, and we can not dyno test one, then I guess we decline and we will look elsewhere. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Focus on your customers, on products you sell; and we will focus on our customers and the products we sell. We are not asking for your help.
11-03-2012, 01:11 PM
#286
I wonder what "On topic" means?
I am not sure about the engineering that went into this part, there are no qualifications shown in this thread, and I am not an engineer .
That said, I am not sure that "equal length" runners means a great deal in forced induction motors; certainly ***** @ CTI who drag races some formidable machinery says forced induction motors dont, care, and Kurt Urban who built last years top two LSX 1000 hp drag race winners uses Truck manifolds on the exhaust side turned around and a very simple plenum to force all that juice into the motor. But then I dont know why the stock manifold is not equal length if its that important, the stock LNF is a pretty darn powerful car.
I am not sure how the "tuner" supports how this manifold addresses the issue of "running lean in cylinders 1 & 4) in a direct injection turbo motor.
I surely dont understand why flawed dyno sheets were provided, but then Richard, who seems an honest guy, is going back to re dyno the car. That said, road wheel dynos are notoriously variable as there is no consistent ambient environment in the cell, so at the end of the day, folks will buy this manifold or not.
As for ZZP, they build and dyno and drag race more LNF engines than anyone here, so their input would be interesting. I guess Aaron made it clear he doesnt care for their input.
I dont get along well with Aaron at TTR, given his track record, but folks here speak highly of his customer service.
So as far as this manifold is concerned, it will be interesting to see Richard's report of the dyno results today.
So I am sub'd for the results.
I am not sure about the engineering that went into this part, there are no qualifications shown in this thread, and I am not an engineer .
That said, I am not sure that "equal length" runners means a great deal in forced induction motors; certainly ***** @ CTI who drag races some formidable machinery says forced induction motors dont, care, and Kurt Urban who built last years top two LSX 1000 hp drag race winners uses Truck manifolds on the exhaust side turned around and a very simple plenum to force all that juice into the motor. But then I dont know why the stock manifold is not equal length if its that important, the stock LNF is a pretty darn powerful car.
I am not sure how the "tuner" supports how this manifold addresses the issue of "running lean in cylinders 1 & 4) in a direct injection turbo motor.
I surely dont understand why flawed dyno sheets were provided, but then Richard, who seems an honest guy, is going back to re dyno the car. That said, road wheel dynos are notoriously variable as there is no consistent ambient environment in the cell, so at the end of the day, folks will buy this manifold or not.
As for ZZP, they build and dyno and drag race more LNF engines than anyone here, so their input would be interesting. I guess Aaron made it clear he doesnt care for their input.
I dont get along well with Aaron at TTR, given his track record, but folks here speak highly of his customer service.
So as far as this manifold is concerned, it will be interesting to see Richard's report of the dyno results today.
So I am sub'd for the results.
11-03-2012, 01:19 PM
#287
On topic means that you keep the convos dealing with this thread and this manifold. Or manifold info in general. Basically if i see rude comments, fight picking, or a farm animal...bombs will be dropped.
There is no reason this thread shouldn't be packed full of knowledge and new found results. This is what the automotive world is about. Trying new ideas. Learning from those ideas and how to make things better. Sharing knowledge. Not whether you hate another vendor and picking fights.
I personally think this is very exciting. Something new for our cars!
There is no reason this thread shouldn't be packed full of knowledge and new found results. This is what the automotive world is about. Trying new ideas. Learning from those ideas and how to make things better. Sharing knowledge. Not whether you hate another vendor and picking fights.
I personally think this is very exciting. Something new for our cars!
11-03-2012, 02:09 PM
#292
On topic means that you keep the convos dealing with this thread and this manifold. Or manifold info in general. Basically if i see rude comments, fight picking, or a farm animal...bombs will be dropped.
There is no reason this thread shouldn't be packed full of knowledge and new found results. This is what the automotive world is about. Trying new ideas. Learning from those ideas and how to make things better. Sharing knowledge. Not whether you hate another vendor and picking fights.
I personally think this is very exciting. Something new for our cars!
There is no reason this thread shouldn't be packed full of knowledge and new found results. This is what the automotive world is about. Trying new ideas. Learning from those ideas and how to make things better. Sharing knowledge. Not whether you hate another vendor and picking fights.
I personally think this is very exciting. Something new for our cars!
11-03-2012, 05:00 PM
#295
TTR Powered
Thread Starter
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Alright, here is the awaited Dyno Results From Track Masters Today.
Note, This car has a 4.05 Trans which where the RPMs at say 60MPH is around 3k or so. Outside Temps Were low too mid 70s. And again, Only 93octane pump gas was used. NO METH, E85, ETC
Here is the "Stock Manifold Vs TTR Manifold" At 20psi 3rd gear pull
Here is the "Stock Manifold Vs TTR Manifold" At 25psi 3rd gear pull
Here is the "Stock Manifold Vs TTR Manifold" At 27psi 3rd gear pull
Now Here Is a 4th Gear 27psi pull of "Stock Manifold Vs TTR manifold" I Requested for this pull. to see PEAK Hp.
^All this was done at Track Masters, Inc in Huntsville AL this morning.
All the Dyno costs came out of my pocket and no ones elses. only gain i have out of this, Is to see the Results.. Nothing more.
IMO,
If you plan to agrue with this NEW Data, or Continue to Agrue with each other about this Manifold. Then Please do NOT Post in MY REVIEW THREAD!
No Need For NON SENCE.
If you don't Trust This Data.. Then Don't Buy The Product.. Nuff Said..
Note, This car has a 4.05 Trans which where the RPMs at say 60MPH is around 3k or so. Outside Temps Were low too mid 70s. And again, Only 93octane pump gas was used. NO METH, E85, ETC
Here is the "Stock Manifold Vs TTR Manifold" At 20psi 3rd gear pull
Here is the "Stock Manifold Vs TTR Manifold" At 25psi 3rd gear pull
Here is the "Stock Manifold Vs TTR Manifold" At 27psi 3rd gear pull
Now Here Is a 4th Gear 27psi pull of "Stock Manifold Vs TTR manifold" I Requested for this pull. to see PEAK Hp.
^All this was done at Track Masters, Inc in Huntsville AL this morning.
All the Dyno costs came out of my pocket and no ones elses. only gain i have out of this, Is to see the Results.. Nothing more.
IMO,
If you plan to agrue with this NEW Data, or Continue to Agrue with each other about this Manifold. Then Please do NOT Post in MY REVIEW THREAD!
No Need For NON SENCE.
If you don't Trust This Data.. Then Don't Buy The Product.. Nuff Said..
35psi on pump gas? no lol. This BNR2871 can hold 31-32psi with higher octane. but not on 93 octane.
11-03-2012, 05:22 PM
#299
not bad but now it looks like it's only a 10 whp / trq difference in peak numbers and until you hit higher boost you lose power and a good amount of it at certain points..
I think all ZZP was trying to do is help you guys out.. but if you dont want peoples help.. then so be it
I think all ZZP was trying to do is help you guys out.. but if you dont want peoples help.. then so be it
11-03-2012, 05:31 PM
#300
Gains from 3500 up look like a steady solid 15-20 hp and torque. Not sure who races below the 3000 rpm mark... Anything above 3000 rpm makes additional power. plus the 4th gear pull shows no bottom end loss. Thanks Richard for taking time to do this test for the forum.