SCd 2.4L Dyno Results
Joined: 12-30-07
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From: NEPA
You guys act like I brought the argument to the thread lol 100%meth is the first person that brought the argument to the table with some half assed representation that actually indicated what I first posted about, the power for the OP's car is a bit lower then what I would have expected for a car with bigger displacement and seemingly comparable mods. He even expressly indicated that the LSJ dyno he posted was running 24* of timing on a 7gph nozzle and the OP's car was only running 11* of timing on a 12gph nozzle. By his logic of how methanol works the 2.4 the OP has should be running higher if not comparable timing, at the very least 16* -19*. Even twooz posted that at a higher psi on a relatively "unfinished" tune he was able to run more timing. And you guys are calling me the *******?
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From: modesto
1) Yes, methanol is known to have 116 octane; water on the other hand has an infinite octane.
Octane is nothing more than the fuel's ability to resist detonation.
2) Water boiling boint = 212 Degrees F.; Look at the thermal temperature charts of a roots supercharger. The m62 sees temperatures in excess of 212 Degrees F. This still does not negate the fact, that even in it's gaseous state, it's ability to absorb heat is second to none
3) Methanol boiling point: 148.5 Degrees F.; Perfect, before it even enters the cylinders the liquid methanol is converted into a vapor. The problem is, it has less than half the energy of gasoline and requires more than double the the amount to produce X energy. (6.4:1 Stoich) It also does not hold a candle to water in latent heat evaporation; water has more than double the heat absorption.
Fluids - Latent Heat of Evaporation
4) You're argument for water raising static compression to the point of no return is complete and utter bupkis. When you introduce h2o into the cylinders, h2o undergoes a few things. For one the atomized spray of fluid is in a gaseous state; the next is it undergoes electrolysis by encountering two key factors: PRESSURE AND ELECTRICITY
The water is split into hydrogen and oxygen; without this essential step, pure water injection would not be possible and I would of never been able to run 19-25gph of 50/50 water methanol via 220 psi pump.
5) Requiring more power to spin a atomized fluid which quickly turns to gas, again... bupkis
It's been proven time and time again, that methanol increases the adiabatic efficiency of the supercharger and overall lowers iats, and increases hp.
6) First of all, when you flow something... you use water to flow test it.
Second, the fluid is sprayed in at 200+ PSI via nozzle designed to atomize the fluid. By the time it even enters the manifold, the methanol and water is well spread and atomized (NOT LARGE DROPLETS)
Octane is nothing more than the fuel's ability to resist detonation.
2) Water boiling boint = 212 Degrees F.; Look at the thermal temperature charts of a roots supercharger. The m62 sees temperatures in excess of 212 Degrees F. This still does not negate the fact, that even in it's gaseous state, it's ability to absorb heat is second to none
3) Methanol boiling point: 148.5 Degrees F.; Perfect, before it even enters the cylinders the liquid methanol is converted into a vapor. The problem is, it has less than half the energy of gasoline and requires more than double the the amount to produce X energy. (6.4:1 Stoich) It also does not hold a candle to water in latent heat evaporation; water has more than double the heat absorption.
Fluids - Latent Heat of Evaporation
4) You're argument for water raising static compression to the point of no return is complete and utter bupkis. When you introduce h2o into the cylinders, h2o undergoes a few things. For one the atomized spray of fluid is in a gaseous state; the next is it undergoes electrolysis by encountering two key factors: PRESSURE AND ELECTRICITY
The water is split into hydrogen and oxygen; without this essential step, pure water injection would not be possible and I would of never been able to run 19-25gph of 50/50 water methanol via 220 psi pump.
5) Requiring more power to spin a atomized fluid which quickly turns to gas, again... bupkis
It's been proven time and time again, that methanol increases the adiabatic efficiency of the supercharger and overall lowers iats, and increases hp.
6) First of all, when you flow something... you use water to flow test it.
Second, the fluid is sprayed in at 200+ PSI via nozzle designed to atomize the fluid. By the time it even enters the manifold, the methanol and water is well spread and atomized (NOT LARGE DROPLETS)
You guys act like I brought the argument to the thread lol 100%meth is the first person that brought the argument to the table with some half assed representation that actually indicated what I first posted about, the power for the OP's car is a bit lower then what I would have expected for a car with bigger displacement and seemingly comparable mods. He even expressly indicated that the LSJ dyno he posted was running 24* of timing on a 7gph nozzle and the OP's car was only running 11* of timing on a 12gph nozzle. By his logic of how methanol works the 2.4 the OP has should be running higher if not comparable timing, at the very least 16* -19*. Even twooz posted that at a higher psi on a relatively "unfinished" tune he was able to run more timing. And you guys are calling me the *******?
The car needs more meth. Period.
I suppose that's decent for 91 octane, whats your elevation? How much boost does the 2.8 pulley make? Have you tried dynoing without the meth? Last supercharged car I had with 50/50 boost juice was drowning with a 6gph nozzle, wound up making more power without the meth on 93 octane. You could probably pick up 10 ponies or so doing the LNF exhaust cam like I just did, theres two still for sale that I know of, one from robk and one from mongo. It's .406 lift vs .395 and changes the LSA from 130 to 127.5, should help vent the exhaust side a bit better compared to the stock LE5 exhaust cam which is pretty small.
robk
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From: Antelope Valley, CA
Just an update, I'm now on AIS's new style meth pump and it made a significant change. I'm now running 20* advance at 6k rpm. I'm sure there's more timing to be had as well, but this is a happy power level for me. Dyno day in the future so we will see what it does now and maybe add a few more degrees and see if it likes it.
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