turbo or supercharged
 

alright...i've been planning a turbo build for quite some time now...and i have most of my stuff for it..i'm just lacking the dp, piggyback ecu, bov and intercooler (i have one intercooler but i scraped the top mount in favor of a front mount that i'll have in like a week or so along with the bov) but just over the last few days i was thinking of just buying the computer and supercharger/intake manifold and installing that with of course injectors/plugs and all necessary accessories...so i need some input...if i go supercharged and do the engine rebuild like i want to do next year..then i can always go twincharged....same with the turbo...but i want something now...so what do you guys think

Car = 2007 Cobalt LS 5spd 2.2L L61

im more of a turbo fan then a supercharger just because of how it sounds and the power you get from it once it pulls.

But really, its your own car, and you do what you want to it, do what you think is better for your liking, not others.

my opinion too...i like the power and the sound of the turbo...but i don't have time right now to fabricate a downpipe or my oil lines (custom setup, all machining and fab work done by me) but i found a few wrecked ss/sc's down in SC that i can pull the blowers off of and get the same initial power from without the hassle of the turbo install....

w/e you do, dont go twincharged

I know a supercharger build is very easy to do on the 2.2. I would go with the SC.

Ill think your serious when you prove you have addiquit skills to plan a project like this successfully, for example proper turbo size, what ECM/piggy back will you use along with you tuning experience and current abilities as well as what parts you have and what parts you think you still need.

we'll go from here....

well....right now i have a TD04-13T turbo charger with custom built exhaust manifold (in my gallery), the CFM rate is max 400-416, so at 8psi (what i plan on running)..we are looking at like 199CFM which is plenty adequate to push the engine to 200-205hp (my initial target goal)...injectors would be about 32-34lb/hr (ss/sc injectors serve this purpose perfectly) the Piggyback unit i plan on using is the AEM 30-1910 F/IC because of its reputation thus far (and it's pretty simple to adjust the tables and install) now the intercooler that i'm getting is a stainless steel air to air FM Intercooler with all the charge air plumbing being basically trial and error (haven't decided how i want to run it yet but i have access to pipe bending mandrels and plenty of material)....now...my decision is whether i want to go ahead and get a dual port wastegate actuator or single port with either 7.5 pound spring or go 8...with the dual port i'm planning low boost at around 5 with high being 8-9 (not much of a difference to some but with this tiny yet powerful turbo...it will be a difference) ....and yes i have thought of not just the engine but the tranny too....so i'll have to get a clutch upgrade as well as changing the gears around to stronger gears (and before you say you can't do that, i know that you can, i can cut gears too lol after all i am a machinist by trade and a certified welder on titanium, stainless, aluminum, and incolonel) ....must i go on?

and before you can say that the manifold looks like crap...keep in mind that i haven't done the final welding on it nor have i done the final porting/machining yet....i'm waiting on that day that i can do a test fit on the cylinder head to make for damn sure that everything lines up and that i'll have space for the turbo to fit...i'm looking at maybe 10 inches of room between the cyl head and the firewall (after the thermal blanket is taken out)...and then i can get my measurement for the downpipe (3 inch downpipe with flexpipe at the end to couple to the "downpipe" that the cat is installed on...

the BOV on turbo sounds good, but its very obnoxios. id go with a supercharger..


anthonyS88 why not go twincahrged???

well, alot of the 2.0 guys that did go twin charged had a very hard time tuning and i still dont think anyone got it to tune right....and the 2.2 as far as i know doesnt have the best tuning(just piggy back) so i think you will run into lots of problems, with a supercharger or turbo alone, you can probally make more power then you would need......so i would go turbo or super.....
My vote is supercharged, i love the whine of a supercharger......

The thing is for 2.2l we dont even have tuning avalible. I know that you could just do the turbo kit from Garrett... with that kit a tuning software is included from SCT. thats the only way you can properly tune your car when you run a turbo. also do you have a auto or manual that may help some answer as well... if you dont have a manual you cant use the turbo from garrett...

it's a 07 2.2L L61 5spd...and i'll have to go piggyback for the tuning...and i don't want to buy a kit because i can put a kit together for cheaper LOL....but i'm starting to lean toward supercharging the balt....

if you already have the turbo(which is almost identical to the one I'm running) just go turbo. if your running only 8 lb`s dnt even worry about intercooling until you build the engine.

yeah i have the turbo lol....

https://www.cobaltss.net/gallery/fil...1/S6000314.jpg
https://www.cobaltss.net/gallery/fil...1/S6000301.jpg
https://www.cobaltss.net/gallery/fil...1/S6000300.jpg

still needs the final porting, welding, then resurfacing (machining) the flange faces...but it's almost done..

wow ugly......

3bolt flange, thats not even a tri-angle....argggggg...

i dont see that clearing the water pump pipe vary well....let alone that turbo lasting/being vary useful....

none the less, the FIC is "ok" but wiring ain't no fun job, let alone the piss-poor wiring instructions from AEM (used one on a TT accord with DOD, ect...it was a bitch)

at least you have a "plan" do keep your plans flexible because if theres one thing my project taught me its that nothing works "just right" every thing needs a little modification, a push, ect...

good luck.

it will work...that flange setup is actually relatively strong and is easily comparable to any other flange style...Works for the Subarus (WRX, STI)...

i have checked and measured dozens of times and it should clear everything...the only concern i had was the final fit up and the clearance between the cyl. head and the firewall (about 10 inches, so be safe with about 9 inch total)....and ugly? like i stated before...the header isn't done yet...the final porting still needs to be done, the final welding needs to be done and the flange surfaces put on my Clausing Mill with a nice KSSM Style 45 degree face mill with SECT443 style inserts grade KC725M carbide PVC coated at a RPM of 130 and a feed of about 20ipm roughing and 5ipm for the final .002" cut...maybe slower if i want a nice gleaming finish...and it still needs ceramic coating after that...

and as far as performance...it will do just fine...if it needs a rebuild i'm pretty sure i can take it off and replace the bearings and clean the turbine fans...rebuild kit cost about 100-115 for this turbo...takes about 30 minutes to do....

rebuild for sure!!!!

she should clear the firewall with out an issue. if you run into a problem you could just put a 45 on that flange thus creating some more room. i ran into a bunch of fitment issues on my first manifold
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e1.../100_01181.jpg

and it ended up turning into this.....
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e1...k/100_0269.jpg

ugh, make sure you have every thing bolted up before you finalize your welds....and i mean everything! you'd be amazed how little stuff adds up

the 3bolt flanges are never favorites, they work alright but a more traditional tri-angle is used. 4bolt FTW

none the less she should be ok for some mild boost....when rebuilding check into the turbonetics ceramic barrings, they helped my 30r come up a bit quicker and they are tough as nails!!!

shaft play right now is about .001-.002" but that's completely normal for a turbo with a "floating" bearing in it...when oil is introduced it creates the cushion and there will be no shaft play...so i don't really need to rebuild for about another 10k on it...

why not re-build it while its out of the car now?

you'll have a guarantee of a job well done and a "fresh" center section......no sience in letting it sit there when you have the perfect chance to do this.

really doesn't need a rebuild quite yet....everything is good on it

Why did you go for the TD04, just out of curiosity? I take it you aren't going for a built/strengthened bottom end just yet? You should be able to spool the hell out of that turbo but I don't know how happy you'll be with top end on it, which is a big complaint of WRX owners with a TD04 turbo.

+1 to whoever said rebuild it now while it's out. But hey if it works it works right?

Well mine is a TD04H-9 and i hit 20+ psi by 3k rpms. Yeah that was WAY out of its efficiency.... But yeah i was spooling 8psi by 2300rpms. Its really nice low end turbo and great for DD.

well....the TD04-13T is often mistaken as the TD04-13G...the benefit for the 13T (the one i have) is that it has awesome power throughout the rpm range...spooling at around 2.5k rpm and dropping off about 5k (which redline is at about 6k-6.2 k) so buy the time i even hit that part of the rpm range, i should be already scootin' down the road and have already shifted....i usually keep my rpms up when i'm giving it hell @ around 3.5-5.5k...i have never heard of anybody actually having problems with the high end rpm (but then again around here...people love to tune those WRX {with the turbo i have} straight up to around 350hp) and for the application that i'm going to use it for this turbo is ideal...i don't want a turbo that takes forever to spool up even though the high end would be nice...but i am leaning right now towards a supercharger setup until i do the engine build...then if i get fiesty enough...then i'll go twincharged so i'll have the low end on the turbo with the high end on the supercharger....but that is many many moons off lmao...i'm still trying to track down a supercharger and intake manifold along with the heat exchanger, etc. my guy that found me a totaled ss/sc hasn't gotten back with me in a few days so i don't know if he got a call back yet from his contacts....and as far as rebuilding the turbo, i have already pulled it apart and serviced it and being a machinist and doing all the measurements and such...it doesn't require a rebuild at this point...but in about 10k it will....but before that i plan on selling/trading the car after the big builds (if i'm not too attached to the car anyway)...(i want a supra or an IS300 and put a twin turbo conversion on it)...so what better way to put positive equity on a ride...soup the effin' thing up, and get a few sponsorships to have on the record of the car...after the builds and such i estimate the worth of the car around the 25-27k mark...

so if that gives you any idea what i'm going for then good

target hp range after all builds 350-400hp street legal
initial hp range for first build is 200-205
second build 275-300

pretty much my overall investment shouldn't be more than 5000 to 7000....(hopefully but you know how the car hobby goes, it will probably end up being more than less lmfao)

:)

--Chris aka FacelessKhaos

Turbo that shit, twincharging isn't worth the money and supercharging really isn't very good...

Wasn't this poll done a few months ago....?
Either way... SC all the way...

twincharging is ment to use the instant torque of the SC for the low end and a larger turbo for the high end. Not the other way around because a roots blower is not a high end beast like a nicely sized turbo is. I would just stay turbo, and see what you can get outta the TD04. My TD04 is good for about 320hp, but thats pushing it. So thats why the procharger is coming in =P