jschru

I just got a ticket today for having a loud exhaust. after i asked the officer why he pulled me over when i wasn't doing anything illegal he was forced to come up with some bullshit excuses as to why he did including my brake lights not working (they work perfectly fine), tinted windows (my windows are legally tinted as per NJ law), and loud exhaust. If i remember correctly as long as your exhaust tone does not exceed 85dbs it is legal. the officer had no decibel meter and gave me a ticket based on his discretion. I plan on taking the ticket to court and having any information about the specs of the exhaust could be helpful in my case.

If anyone has any info about this exhaust please post or pm me. this is the only "noise" mod on my car so any info could help.

btw my hahn exhaust is for sale if anyone is interested please see my for sale thread in the classifieds.

thanks guys

mexi_loco

iTrader: (7)

don't bother posting here bro. They don't lurk here anymore. As per the officer's "b.s." excuse, unless he cites a legitimate New Jersey law stating specifically a maximum decibel level, then you can plead with the D.A. and they can work something out with you.

In Texas, the citations they write for an individual clearly state what the person is in violation of. The ordinace or section (or subsection) of the law has to be written alongside the written summary of the violation. This allows individuals due process if they choose (or cannot afford) a lawyer.

If there is no such law, you're within your right to sue the officer for harassment, although I should mention that those cases are highly frivolous and usually get thrown out.

SSSnoop

New Jersey does not have any "decibel rule" as far as I know. This is what I've pulled from one of the GM High Performance mags that was talking about SEMA's action network on exhausts and nitrous in all the various states:

New Jersey
Exhaust Systems
New Jersey Statutes Annotated 39:3-70 provides: "Every motor vehicle having a combustion motor shall at all times be equipped with a muffler in good working order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise and annoying smoke, and no person shall use a muffler cut-out, bypass or similar device upon a motor vehicle on a highway," which is pretty much the boilerplate language used in most other states we're looking at here.

New Jersey Administrative Code 13:20-32.20 describes the standards to be used at official inspection facilities. Aside from stating that improperly mounted exhaust systems and systems that pass through, or hat can send gas into, the passenger compartment (which presumably applies to those that end before the rear axle) are no good, systems where "the muffler is missing, defective, or not in proper operating condition" and those with "a muffler cut-out, muffler bypass or any similar device, or any change or modification to the exhaust system which causes excessive noise" will be refused.

In other words, we weren't able to find anything on decibel limits in New Jersey, save to say that SEMA helped strike down a measure a few years back that would have instituted a noise restriction for all aftermarket mufflers sold in the state, because it was vague and stated no actual decibel limit.

Read more: Exhaust System & Nitrous System Laws In US - GM High-Tech Performance Magazine


Essentially this is a fairly easily fought ticket, considering there is no calibrated device used, that your muffler/exhaust system is installed correctly and in proper working order (well I would hope it is! ), and unless he's asserting you're somehow violating a local noise ordinance (which would have the code written on the ticket), he really doesn't have that much to stand on. You weren't sitting around anywhere revving it up, were you? That's one way to get a good noise ordinance violation - if you were just driving by, he's pulling a fast one on you. I'm here in NJ with a 3" borla exhaust off of bbk headers on my LT1 Camaro, and dual Flowmaster 40's off of Pacesetter headers on my other Camaro, and I severely doubt a 'balt with a Hahn exhaust is louder than that!

jschru

yeah hahn is really a pain to get in touch with. i would try to just call them or email them but ive tried that in the past and it never works.

on the ticket i got i was cited for:

"39:3-70---Noisy muffler"

according to the New Jersey Statutes title 39 Motor Vehicles and Traffic Regulation

"39:3-70. Mufflers.

39:3-70. Every motor vehicle having a combustion motor shall at all times be equipped with a muffler in good working order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise and no person shall use a muffler cut-out, bypass, or similar device upon a motor vehicle on a highway."

I'm not really interested in suing the cop for harrassing me, I'm just more interested in not paying $54 for doing nothing wrong.

jschru

hahaha no i was not bouncing it off the rev limiter like a dumb ricer. i was just cruising along minding my own business when this little ***** pulls me over with 3 car backup. thank you for that clarrification i'll deffinatly take this one to court. I just really hate these small town cops with nothing better to do than harass people. clearly i'm such a menace to society with my base 4dr cobalt and catback exhaust

mexi_loco

iTrader: (7)

again, if the law does not state a specific decibel level, then he cannot cite you for a "noisy muffler". The law was obviously intended to be used for state inspection purposes only with the intention of supporting a state inspector's decision to fail a person for installing an aftermarket exhaust that is street legal, but not CARB approved.

Maven

iTrader: (1)

You guys who keep saying the cops "cant" give a ticket just because there is no decibelspecification are completely wrong. The law states the muffler must not allow excessive or unusual noise. This means your exhaust cant be different than the average car or other stock versions of your vehicle.

Your Hahn exhaust definitely qualifies as "unusual" as compared to stock vehicles. Which means youre breaking the law. So am I with my Hahn and ZZP LT. Just pay the ticket. Its not worth a day or two off fromwork or school to fight $45 when you are actually wrong. Not to mention when you fight it and lose (you will lose without a lawyer) youll be stuck with the ticket AND court costs.

As for the tint, do you have ANY tint on your front doors or windshield? If you do youre illegal, and count yourself lucky you didnt get that ticket too.

Oh, and BTW.....cops dont need a reason to pull you over in NJ. The state owns the license plate on your car. Thats all the reason they need.

mexi_loco

iTrader: (7)

I never said the cop "can't" write you a ticket. I simply said that if the law doesn't specify a specific decibel level, then the argument that it's excessively noisy is an arbitrary definition for a moving violation. In other words, it's a law that can be argued as lacking mens rea. Hence, why I stated that it's obviously a law meant to be used for state inspections and not for traffic violations. It's kind of like obscenity laws and strip clubs.

jschru

i disagree, there is no law against having an aftermarket exhaust, and unusual or excessive noise is up to the discretion of the listener. a law can not be based on something that someone can decide "well thats ok" "well that sounds weird, it must be illegal" the court of law is based solely around facts. "innocent until PROVEN guilty" It is a fact that my exhaust is different from stock. but does it make unusual or excessive noise, i don't think so, my dads vette at wot with a stock exhaust is probably just as loud as my car, 18 wheelers and motorcylces are way louder than my car. again theres no facts as to my exhaust being loud other than he said it is.

I know the tint laws in nj. I have my rear doors and back window tinted and NO tint on my front driver, passenger windows, or windshield.

In the united states an officer needs probable cause or reasonable suspicion to pull you over. while the officer did provide this information it was clear to me he made these reasons up on the spot because he really had no reason to pull me over. if you really think they can pull you over simply because the state owns the plate i highly suggest you read up on your rights. we do NOT live in a police state.

Maven

iTrader: (1)

You guys are hilarious, talking about mens rea, and that things must be based on innocent until proven guilty etc..... Theres no mens rea because these arent truly criminal type offenses, its purely actus rea.....simply the act of an unusual or non standard muffler breaks the statute. You dont need to have any criminal intent or guilty mind, making the car louder louder than usual or normal is what the statute deals with. And again, it has nothing to do with how loud OTHER vehicles are.....first of all what others do has no bearing on whether or not you are breaking the law. If your cobalt doesnt sound like what a normal rational person would classify most normal/unmodified cars as sounding then its "unusual" and an officer can issue a citation for 39:3-70 Now if you go through with fighting it (I suggest you dont) Youll need to put your stock exhaust back on for the court case....because if you actually get tested you need to be at less than 95dB when tested at 3/4 throttle 20 inches from the exhaust tip. Youll fail with the hahn, ESPECIALLY if you dont have a stock cat.

Youre correct, that TECHNICALLY speaking an officer does need "reasonable suspicion" of illegal activity to pull you over, but that is a very loose term. Any suspicion that a cop has is considered reasonable since being a reasonable person is requirement for being a cop. So any suspicion that a cop has means he can pull you over. So if he THINKS your exhaust is too loud, or that you had tint on the front windows, or thought the brake lights were out, or that there was a cover on your license plate, or a sticker on your windshield, etc, etc..... So back to like I said so glibly before....you can get pulled over for anything a cop thinks up.

Maven

iTrader: (1)

Nope youre right, you said cannot

Maven

iTrader: (1)

Hmmm...apparently they ditched the 95dB spec in 2009 I guess because of the change in inspections.... I still stand by my opinion thats its a waste of time and most likely money to fight a $45 ticket unless you have no job or school. I cant imagine you winning the ticket. I dont know anyone who ever has.

mexi_loco

iTrader: (7)

you know, i'm really not in the mood to argue over a senseless point, especially when you feel like being so asinine about it. OP asked for opinions, and I gave mine based on basic knowledge I know. Go ahead and show everyone how you're **** smells like roses.

Maven

iTrader: (1)

not sure how I'm being asinine..... I also gave my opinion on the matter based on the way the law is written and interpreted in NJ by mist judges, and based on my own and others personal experiences with this ticket. I posted that there did in fact used to be a DB limit and an actual test procedure and that it was used for verifying the validity of the citation, which could be in fact issued without a measured reading. Also this ticket is not a moving violation, it carries no license points, or license surcharges, it doesn't report to the insurance company either. Its $45 if you pay it. Its at least a day if not 2 days off from work or school if you fight it.....if you fight it and lose you'll be paying at LEAST another $20 in court costs, plus gas, lost wages, etc. And it possible that the judge can increase the fine if you lose. I don't see how the hassle of a day or two in court is worth $45, especially since even if you win there's nothing to jeep the cop from citing you again basically out of spite. Fighting a non moving violation, especially if you happen to have got ticketed in a small town is a sure fire way to garauntee the cops continue paying attention to you.

But whatever, go fight a long standing statute and talk about legality of the statute and see how it works out for you

SSSnoop

Here's the point - the verbiage of the law states, "Every motor vehicle having a combustion motor shall at all times be equipped with a muffler in good working order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise and no person shall use a muffler cut-out, bypass, or similar device upon a motor vehicle on a highway." OP has a FUNCTIONAL muffler in constant operation which prevents excessive noise, and there are no functional deviations to his exhaust system which can cause such noise. There is absolutely no reason for OP to accept what is clearly capricious and arbitrary judgment by a law enforcement officer. OP can also do a dB read of his car, and bring it to court to prove that the officer is improperly exercising his judgment on the matter - just as I would had he pulled me over with my dual Flowmasters. He is not exceeding acceptable noise statues outside of operation of a motor vehicle; ergo, he is not "illegal" within the confines of the law. He is not operating an open exhaust, which is the reason this law exists. What if the judge tells him after he says "guilty" that he is required to remove his exhaust? Is it worth the loss of money and a good sounding exhaust system? Is it acceptable that he bend over and take it up his behind because some cop thought he could righteously screw him and get away with it? The more that performance enthusiasts accept getting screwed, the more difficult it becomes for the rest of us running truly righteous exhaust systems on our older cars!

Maven

iTrader: (1)

Hmm, well again it all goes back to the fact that the verbage of the law states unusual exhaust. Hahn exhaust is by definition unusual. Its rare and sounds different than stock. If its uncommon and not the same as stock its unusual, why is this so hard for people to understand?
There's no trial involved with a guilty plea on this ticket, so there's no way a judge can demand you remove the exhaust. If you plea guilty and pay it you never even have to see the judge or the inside of the court at all, so losing your tour xhaust isn'topossible.

SSSnoop

The fact of the law is that they cannot define the law beyond its bounds - verbiage or not. The law specifically states a functioning muffler that does not produce unusual sounds. What you're not understanding is that it doesn't say "unusual from stock for that make/model/year - they cannot define the law beyond what is written - it says what it says. Hahn exhausts sound not exceptionally different that the sport exhausts on many US-approved passenger vehicles and trucks. OP can bring in comparative exhaust notes from several stock-exhaust equipped vehicles and challenge the officer and/or judge to identify his specific non-stock exhaust from several sound clips, and demonstrate that his exhaust is neither loud or unusual - clearly demonstrating the officer was capricious, and is only trying to break his *****.

Sometimes the argument isn't about money - its about what's right. The more enthusiasts who roll over, show their bellies and **** themselves, the quicker states enforce legislation that limits the auto hobby. The more often poorly written legislation is challenged successfully, the better - since this means PROPER laws get coded in, and less kids get pulled over for what is nothing more than a little different - and very acceptable - exhaust note.

Micro

For what it is worth, I agree with everything Maven has said in this post. I have been pulled over multiple times for police officers claiming that I had a modified exhaust (even when my car was bone stock). I tried to fight the ticket when my car was bone stock and the judge still didn't want to believe me over the officer. Plus, I had a signed inspection letter from the dealership that the judge refused to accept as evidence, because it didn't say "under penalty of perjury, I hearby swear that...". I ended up winning this ticket in court because I was pulled over in a residential area with 6 foot high fences all along the street which would not allow the sound energy to dissipate (making the car appear louder than it really was).

I then got another ticket after my car had a modified exhaust and the officer claimed the same thing as when my car was stock. In other words, the judge will not believe your word over the police officer's unless you have multiple sources of evidence to discredit the officer's statement. I lost the second court case, and I choose to never go to court for an exhaust ticket again. If I get a ticket, I consider it as paying a "tax" for having an awesome sounding (and performing) car for the rest of the year.

SSSnoop

There's a big difference here - you are posting from Washington state, right? WA has an add-in to its exhaust/appearance law.... "No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor vehicle in a manner which will amplify or increase the noise emitted by the engine of such vehicle above that emitted by the muffler originally installed on the vehicle, and it shall be unlawful for any person to operate a motor vehicle not equipped as required by this subsection, or which has been amplified as prohibited by this subsection. A court may dismiss an infraction notice for a violation of this subsection if there is reasonable grounds to believe that the vehicle was not operated in violation of this subsection." This gives them grounds to pull you over and cite your exhaust due to a reasonable suspicion of an illegal exhaust - and this is why this particular verbiage is not in many other state's auto sound laws - because its that onerous. NJ does not have that "amplify/increase" clause, and as such you have a valid complaint if you have a reasonably decent sounding exhaust and you get pulled over.

Each state really has some specifics that make fighting this ticket easier/harder, depending on the details put in the writing of those laws.

Micro

[QUOTE=SSSnoop;6350868]There's a big difference here - you are posting from Washington state, right? WA has an add-in to its exhaust/appearance law.... "No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor vehicle in a manner which will amplify or increase the noise emitted by the engine of such vehicle above that emitted by the muffler originally installed on the vehicle, and it shall be unlawful for any person to operate a motor vehicle not equipped as required by this subsection, or which has been amplified as prohibited by this subsection. A court may dismiss an infraction notice for a violation of this subsection if there is reasonable grounds to believe that the vehicle was not operated in violation of this subsection." This gives them grounds to pull you over and cite your exhaust due to a reasonable suspicion of an illegal exhaust - and this is why this particular verbiage is not in many other state's auto sound laws - because its that onerous. NJ does not have that "amplify/increase" clause, and as such you have a valid complaint if you have a reasonably decent sounding exhaust and you get pulled over.

Each state really has some specifics that make fighting this ticket easier/harder, depending on the details put in the writing of those laws.[/QUOTE

I agree. However, fighting the word of a police officer in court (regardless of the state's law) is very difficult.

SSSnoop

[QUOTE=Micro;6351688]
Totally - that is why in states like NJ, you bring sufficient evidence to demonstrate that your car is within expected norms. Battling word versus word, you'll lose. However, bring some exhaust sound tracks and borrow a dB meter to show sound level at set distance, and you will be bringing the data, while officer Bob Brady only brings his word and tone-deaf ear. Judges will rule in your favor if you bring the due diligence and not the anger!

Micro

[QUOTE=SSSnoop;6353108]That makes sense to me.

Blacksspat

hey do u still have the Hahn exhaust?

bmartz1991

iTrader: (35)

Thread is over 1 1/2 years old.

MURDERD

True that, It's bullshit what they pull you over and ticket you for these days.