Injector basics for LSJ
#102
On paper you should be able to swap injectors, and as long as your injector data is correct, you should not have to change any trims. In reality nothing is perfect and at max you should not see more than a 2-3% change in fueling if nothing else was changed but injectors.
If you are interested in the 100% correct and verified injector data for the LSJ send me a PM and I will provid it.
If you are interested in the 100% correct and verified injector data for the LSJ send me a PM and I will provid it.
#103
I cut the injector offsets in half and tried again. My stft's were much closer to 0 within 3% but when I go into PE my afr is way rich. Im commanding .91 (combined with meth for .80) and now (with out meth) getting .82. Now I have to say again that my tune was spot on before I switched injectors, I had no issues at all and Ive been running the same tune for months.
#104
Junior Member
First, thank you for this thread and info, its great info.
I'm turbo charging an LE5 and was about to get Siemens 60# injectors when I read this thread. I have no reference for LSJ injectors. Would the Bosh injectors be a good candidate to fit my head?
And why are we resorting to one dude PMing these injector specs to people one by one? That seems dumb. If someone wants to email them to me I will host them and post a link so that anyone who wants them can download them at any time ...
I'm turbo charging an LE5 and was about to get Siemens 60# injectors when I read this thread. I have no reference for LSJ injectors. Would the Bosh injectors be a good candidate to fit my head?
And why are we resorting to one dude PMing these injector specs to people one by one? That seems dumb. If someone wants to email them to me I will host them and post a link so that anyone who wants them can download them at any time ...
#106
Junior Member
But if I'm buying anyway the price difference isn't enough to me to justify any headaches.
I assume that the e67 does not have the 50% offset issue as the p12 does?
#109
Junior Member
I can see how the ECM using only half of what the user entered would lead to issues tuning. I'm wondering if that same issue exists with the e67?
#111
Junior Member
The original link to Bosh's data page in the OP's post appears to be broken. Here is the info I could find on their site right now:
http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/de/de...s_1_328809.php
http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/media...es_enpdf~2.pdf
http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/media...5993867pdf.pdf
They even have 3d models available if you're into CAD as I am.
http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/media...es/EV14zip.zip
They also have a EV-14L (long) which shouldn't require the spacers if I am correct. The EV-14 series appears to have an EV6 connector which would require a plug adapter (I believe) for the LSJ but not for the LE5.
Someone correct any of this if I am mistaken.
http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/de/de...s_1_328809.php
http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/media...es_enpdf~2.pdf
http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/media...5993867pdf.pdf
They even have 3d models available if you're into CAD as I am.
http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/media...es/EV14zip.zip
They also have a EV-14L (long) which shouldn't require the spacers if I am correct. The EV-14 series appears to have an EV6 connector which would require a plug adapter (I believe) for the LSJ but not for the LE5.
Someone correct any of this if I am mistaken.
#112
Junior Member
Also, looking at the data sheet, they don't appear to offer the size that the OP says he got. They have (rated at 3 bar):
116g/hr = 161cc/min = 15lbs/hr
150 = 208 = 20
237 = 329 = 31
387 = 538 = 51
429 = 596 = 57
503 = 699 = 67
670 = 931 = 89
116g/hr = 161cc/min = 15lbs/hr
150 = 208 = 20
237 = 329 = 31
387 = 538 = 51
429 = 596 = 57
503 = 699 = 67
670 = 931 = 89
#115
Junior Member
I ordered 5 of the 60# injectors from Injector Connection today. (1 spare.) I spoke to a guy named John who was very helpful and easy to work with. He remembered Randy (the OP of this thread) and the stuff Randy had done to get the data for the P12 but agreed that Randy seems to have disappeared off the face of the planet. He says he has tried calling him many times and never gets an answer. Randy has not been active on this site in 9 months. Coincidentally, Randy's profile claims that he operates out of Pensacola, which is about 5 miles from me, and lives in Crestview, which is less than an hour from me. If I knew that he had a shop or something I would swing by and see what's up. There are not many performance shops in Pensacola. Most pop up and are gone seemingly overnight. John also said that Randy gave Al McClure from ARM Performance the data. He gave me Al's cell number, which I called, but only got voicemail. John himself had it at one time but lost it.
Since I am running an E67 ECM I think I have it easier than you P12 guys. Within 5 minutes of purchasing John had sent me an email with the injector data in E67 format. I will post it if anyone cares for it. So I think I have what I need. I was trying to help you P12 guys out though.
The actual injectors that I bought and are listed in the OP are unique EV14's made for an OEM. That is why their part number is not listed in the Bosch EV14 literature. I believe he said that they are Audi injectors. I do not believe that the stock application uses the little tip extenders that John sent Randy and I.
Since I am running an E67 ECM I think I have it easier than you P12 guys. Within 5 minutes of purchasing John had sent me an email with the injector data in E67 format. I will post it if anyone cares for it. So I think I have what I need. I was trying to help you P12 guys out though.
The actual injectors that I bought and are listed in the OP are unique EV14's made for an OEM. That is why their part number is not listed in the Bosch EV14 literature. I believe he said that they are Audi injectors. I do not believe that the stock application uses the little tip extenders that John sent Randy and I.
Last edited by patooyee; 10-05-2015 at 08:33 PM.
#120
First, thank you for this thread and info, its great info.
I'm turbo charging an LE5 and was about to get Siemens 60# injectors when I read this thread. I have no reference for LSJ injectors. Would the Bosh injectors be a good candidate to fit my head?
And why are we resorting to one dude PMing these injector specs to people one by one? That seems dumb. If someone wants to email them to me I will host them and post a link so that anyone who wants them can download them at any time ...
I'm turbo charging an LE5 and was about to get Siemens 60# injectors when I read this thread. I have no reference for LSJ injectors. Would the Bosh injectors be a good candidate to fit my head?
And why are we resorting to one dude PMing these injector specs to people one by one? That seems dumb. If someone wants to email them to me I will host them and post a link so that anyone who wants them can download them at any time ...
If anyone can get clean data on these I would really appreciate it. If I still had my secondary vehicle I would send mine off to get tested so I would have the proper data and share it. If anyone has these injectors lying around I would chip in to pay for the testing.
#121
Junior Member
The injector data supplied by the op is garbage anyway. He's modified it from the original and as far as I can tell it might not be for theses injectors but based of similar Bosch ones. Also fuel injector connection will not supply any data on these regardless of how many times you contact them, which is bs if you ask me. They don't even know the proper flow rate for these injectors. When I got them they had a sticker with 650cc written on them which is wrong.
If anyone can get clean data on these I would really appreciate it. If I still had my secondary vehicle I would send mine off to get tested so I would have the proper data and share it. If anyone has these injectors lying around I would chip in to pay for the testing.
If anyone can get clean data on these I would really appreciate it. If I still had my secondary vehicle I would send mine off to get tested so I would have the proper data and share it. If anyone has these injectors lying around I would chip in to pay for the testing.
http://www.patooyee.com/squirt/FIC65...V14LSXHPT.xlsx
Do you have reason to believe that this data is incorrect?
Edit: It's been a while since I read this thread. Can this data not be translated to the P12?
Last edited by patooyee; 01-05-2016 at 01:16 PM.
#124
Nobody agrees on anything really. Theres tons out there on the hptuners forum that is totally wrong, using the map vs volts table to try and scale past the 60lb/hr limit, but ARM proved it to be impossible. Next injectors i get are going to be injector dynamics when i can afford them.
#125
The data I got is from the OP and it also included data on various injectors that is nearly identical to that released by Greg Banish. The only differences were that the values for injectors with IFR higher than the 63.5 limit had their offset values halved. As the op believes our pcms only use half the values.
The data you received from FIC has only the adders and minimum pulse width tables in common with the OP's. The offsets are slightly different but I have no reason to believe it is accurate unless some one is using it properly and without issues. (By properly I mean on a tune where the bad data isn't being made up for in the MAF or VE)
I believe that FIC is using the info they have for their Bosch 650cc injectors instead of actually flow testing these injectors. Which would explain why all the data I've seen for them is labeled 650CC and has a flow rate of 72.02 lb/hr @58psi instead of the 69 lb/hr @ 58 psi of a 627CC injector.
Ill try the data you posted on a new tune for my car in various ways and post my findings here in a few days. Ive done extensive testing on multiple ways of running these injectors with the OP's data and haven't found a consistent and reliable method to use the data without skewing my MAF. The car will run whats commanded while in pe, but under low load and at idle the performance is sub par (at least compared to the stage kit injectors they replaced) and the adjustments I have had to make to my maf to get them to work, just so I can drive the car reliably, is ridiculous.
You will have to do some interpolating, but yes it can.
I'm sorry, I thought I had updated this thread. I bought the injectors from Injector Connection, they were a pleasure to deal with and sent me the data right away. Here it is:
http://www.patooyee.com/squirt/FIC65...V14LSXHPT.xlsx
Do you have reason to believe that this data is incorrect?
http://www.patooyee.com/squirt/FIC65...V14LSXHPT.xlsx
Do you have reason to believe that this data is incorrect?
First, I did not receive offset data for an LSJ with these injectors. I started with the Bosch spec sheet for these and went from there. If you buy these injectors, guess who made the offset tables that will be emailed to you from FIC? Me. I made them with hundreds of hours of trial and error, for free.
The data you received from FIC has only the adders and minimum pulse width tables in common with the OP's. The offsets are slightly different but I have no reason to believe it is accurate unless some one is using it properly and without issues. (By properly I mean on a tune where the bad data isn't being made up for in the MAF or VE)
I believe that FIC is using the info they have for their Bosch 650cc injectors instead of actually flow testing these injectors. Which would explain why all the data I've seen for them is labeled 650CC and has a flow rate of 72.02 lb/hr @58psi instead of the 69 lb/hr @ 58 psi of a 627CC injector.
Ill try the data you posted on a new tune for my car in various ways and post my findings here in a few days. Ive done extensive testing on multiple ways of running these injectors with the OP's data and haven't found a consistent and reliable method to use the data without skewing my MAF. The car will run whats commanded while in pe, but under low load and at idle the performance is sub par (at least compared to the stage kit injectors they replaced) and the adjustments I have had to make to my maf to get them to work, just so I can drive the car reliably, is ridiculous.
You will have to do some interpolating, but yes it can.