Originally Posted by Speedytec
(Post 7457076)
That's the tricky one, as by scaling the MAF & VE table your ecm "sees" less airflow than there actually is! And this affects f.i. the ignition table that is based on measured airflow... There is a good write-up somewhere how to properly scale GM tunes. But then the problem arises that HPT does not give access to all LSJ tables and some of these should be altered for a proper scaled tune.
So that's why I changed my fuel regulator for a 3.0 bar Saab version and I don't have to scale anything for these Bosch injectors. And my idle and transient behaviour is pretty good with these. :thumb: For these Bosch injectors -- the OP states 60.5lb @ 43.5psi or 72lb @ 58psi. -- doesn't that require us to use 72lb IFR no matter whether we are running the stock fuel pressure system or not ? (no, it doesn't, see two posts down) Which runs us right back into the "IFR Modifier doesn't work" and scaled tune thing ? |
Correct
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am I also correct in the understanding that Speedytec is running near 43psi fuel pressure, and that's how HE'S getting away with it as he mentions ?
any thoughts on how / why so many guys with big(ger) injectors are not running scaled tunes, or are getting away with not ? EDIT: My question from two posts up is WRONG; IFR value must correspond to whatever base pressure is run went back and did a bunch of refresher reading, including how to set up a boost referenced system, which is what I have -- according to a question I asked back then, I would enter IFR values based on what my IFR would be at the base pressure my regulator is set at-- so, if my base pressure is 43.5 and I chose to run the EV14's from this thread,I would use 60.5 as my IFR across the board, which again, would negate the need for the IFR modifier or a scaled tune. If base pressure was 42, the IFR would be lower, and if the base pressure was higher, I.E. 58psi the IFR would be higher. Sound right ? |
Originally Posted by wayfarer
(Post 7459299)
am I also correct in the understanding that Speedytec is running near 43psi fuel pressure, and that's how HE'S getting away with it as he mentions ?
any thoughts on how / why so many guys with big(ger) injectors are not running scaled tunes, or are getting away with not ? EDIT: went back and did a bunch of refresher reading, including how to set up a boost referenced system, which is what I have -- according to a question I asked back then, I would enter IFR values based on what my IFR would be at the base pressure my regulator is set at-- so, if my base pressure is 43.5 and I chose to run the EV14's from this thread,I would use 60.5 as my IFR across the board, which again, would negate the need for the IFR modifier or a scaled tune. If base pressure was 42, the IFR would be lower, and if the base pressure was higher, I.E. 58psi the IFR would be higher. Sound right ? That gives me just enough fuel for my Harrop @7800rpm. (~83% IDC max, forget E85 this way) |
Originally Posted by Speedytec
(Post 7460290)
Yes, my base pressure is a Saab B207 (same rail design as LSJ/L61) 3.0 bar unit, so 43,5psi. But return system, so about 60,5 everywhere in my IFR table.
That gives me just enough fuel for my Harrop @7800rpm. (~83% IDC max, forget E85 this way) I'm on e85, but less blower than you, only revving to 7000, and my 6000 feet altitude is good for close to 25% loss ! |
When people use 80's with non scaled tunes, using the ifr vs volts table, they end up inadvertently making up for it in the maf and ve table, wether they realize it or not.
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Originally Posted by armcclure
(Post 7460460)
When people use 80's with non scaled tunes, using the ifr vs volts table, they end up inadvertently making up for it in the maf and ve table, wether they realize it or not.
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The VE on these cars is a strange animal. My car is currently on a ve only (sd) tune due to a maf backwash issue I need to fix.
I fought and fought with applying changes and smoothing the table out, it was never happy. Finally it got to te point where I said to hell with it, I'll just give it what it wants. And you know what? It worked. If you were to look at it you'd say no way. But trims are spot on (for E) and wot AFR is rock solid. Sometimes you have to stop trying to make the car take wht you THINK it wants, and just give it what it's asking for. |
Hey Speedytec --- your PM box is full!
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Whoa....looks like people are looking for some answers. I have not been on here in over 6 months...sorry.
I do have the correct data for these. And the voltage multiplier table was left in there as a leftover really. Alan is correct.....it does not work. |
I tried digging through my email for it but I can't find it anywhere. I know I have it saved on my computer somewhere because I've found it before.... Just need to dig more.
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awright you guys --- hook a brotha up !!
i have the injectors, just need good data |
Originally Posted by wayfarer
(Post 7474834)
awright you guys --- hook a brotha up !!
i have the injectors, just need good data People need to be more specific about what they have and need if they want help... |
Originally Posted by blueLNFftw
(Post 7474849)
What data do you need?
People need to be more specific about what they have and need if they want help... offset vs volts vs vac table min pw short pulse limit short pulse adder table |
Originally Posted by wayfarer
(Post 7474858)
proper injector data.
offset vs volts vs vac table min pw short pulse limit short pulse adder table Is that specific enough ? I didn't think I needed to specify because it was all within the context of the thread |
Originally Posted by lwrs10
(Post 7475039)
For the Bosch ones?
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Did anyone ever confirm that the offset data for these injectors is correct? Also, is Fuel Injector Connection the only place to get these? I dont see them listed on their site so im guessing they're are still ony available per special request as the op suggested?
For those with experience will these injectors be good for 300-350whp on a tvs w/meth, head, and cams? Thanks in advance for any help or info guys! |
Originally Posted by RedLined
(Post 7477079)
Did anyone ever confirm that the offset data for these injectors is correct? Also, is Fuel Injector Connection the only place to get these? I dont see them listed on their site so im guessing they're are still ony available per special request as the op suggested?
For those with experience will these injectors be good for 300-350whp on a tvs w/meth, head, and cams? Thanks in advance for any help or info guys! |
I figured they should be good enough, but I read somewhere that 80s were a must for tvs. Maybe that was for E85?
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Nevermind, I should have read Speedytec's comment, "That gives me just enough fuel for my Harrop @7800rpm. (~83% IDC max, forget E85 this way)".
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Originally Posted by RedLined
(Post 7477266)
Nevermind, I should have read Speedytec's comment, "That gives me just enough fuel for my Harrop @7800rpm. (~83% IDC max, forget E85 this way)".
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I should also note, the GM S2 #42's apparently are NOT split stream injectors, they are wide fan spray patterns, I would assume GM was concerned about fuel atomization with the bigger injector and being able to properly pass emissions which resulted in the redesign. I compared the tips of the stock LSJ injectors and the S2's and the stockers used a 2 hole spray nozzle like the traditional dual jet injectors normally use, while the S2's used a 4 hole end. When I sent them out for service they noted the difference in spray pattern verifying what I had suspected with that difference.
Attachment 63489 "We appreciate the positive feedback. Your injectors display a wide (approximately 30-35 degree) cone shaped spray pattern. It is a well atomized spray that will work well in most multi-valve engines. We hope this is helpful." OSIDETIGER FICS - Fuel Injector Cleaning & Flow Testing Service - Home |
I bought these Bosch EV14 630cc injectors from Jon at FIC, just before Christmas and received data in LSX format from him.
In the last couple days I received an injector spreadsheet with various injectors, including the Bosch EV14 630cc, all in LSJ format. This spreadsheet is reported to be LWRS10's work, but I have not been able to verify this with him. I was a bit confused about the 630cc / 60.5lb number in the OP. Also, the package the injectors came in said "flow matched 630cc" ...but the spreadsheets say 72.02lb /hr @ 58psi, which does NOT come out to 60.5 lb/hr @ 43.5 psi, it comes out to 62.35 lb/hr @ 43.5 psi.... so I contacted Jon and asked him which is the correct #. He stated that 72.02 lb/hr @ 58psi and 62.35 lb/hr @ 43.5 psi is correct. I have ZZP BRFPS, so I will set my regulator to 43.5 base pressure. For the tune, I used 62.35 as my IFR (actually 62.3 in the table). I used the data from LWRS10's spreadsheet for the rest. It's not up and running yet, but I'll report here when it is. When I was on the phone with Jon before Christmas I asked him if he had a similar split stream injector in a higher flow rate, for higher HP and he said he did. |
Any particular reason for dialing back to 43.5? From what I understand those new EV14 bosch injectors prefer higher base pressures and typically run up to 115psi.
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the Fuelab regulator that came with my ZZP BRFPS was preset at 42psi, so dialing it up a little will be easy.
Also, it keeps the IFR below the 63.5 limit, so no scaling the tune is needed. Since I am a very hesitant amateur tuner, this is a big plus for me With my mods, at my altitude, I shouldn't need any more than that. |
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