06 E85 ION Redline vs 09 GMS1 Cobalt SS/TC
05-26-2010, 11:29 AM
#227
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05-26-2010, 11:43 AM
#228
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Maybe this PT would put all you girl's to shame http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0DL8...eature=related
Mike
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05-26-2010, 12:37 PM
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Double clutching really is not needed for newer cars. It was only needed for older cars. However its a matter of opinion. Some say its still needed.
Basically double clutching is this:
You press the clutch in to take it out of gear, and release the pedal with it in neutral (between gears) then you press the clutch in and put it in gear and release.
The point of it is to allow the rpm to drop to a "more suitable" level for the gears, making it easier on the trans and gears.
We don't need to because we have syncro's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_clutch
05-26-2010, 12:42 PM
#230
srsly? lol
Double clutching really is not needed for newer cars. It was only needed for older cars. However its a matter of opinion. Some say its still needed.
Basically double clutching is this:
You press the clutch in to take it out of gear, and release the pedal with it in neutral (between gears) then you press the clutch in and put it in gear and release.
The point of it is to allow the rpm to drop to a "more suitable" level for the gears, making it easier on the trans and gears.
We don't need to because we have syncro's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_clutch
Double clutching really is not needed for newer cars. It was only needed for older cars. However its a matter of opinion. Some say its still needed.
Basically double clutching is this:
You press the clutch in to take it out of gear, and release the pedal with it in neutral (between gears) then you press the clutch in and put it in gear and release.
The point of it is to allow the rpm to drop to a "more suitable" level for the gears, making it easier on the trans and gears.
We don't need to because we have syncro's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_clutch
Like, unloading the engine...the first clutch press is NOT necessary
and revving the engine to make the input shaft speed to match the engine for smooth gear engagement
05-26-2010, 12:43 PM
#231
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Good kill, he shouldn't have been so cocky. There is always someone faster! However......let's analyze this a bit.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but "285/265" seems a bit happy to me (and you're on a smaller pulley now?) for what I saw in the video, and the numbers being bandied about on this forum for LNF's are laughable. Dyno's are not for bragging rights, they are for testing and tuning.
On the first run it looks like you just took off, I don't hear any honking. The second run you honk it off and he stays with you until he goes to shift to third, it's very clear that he missed it, especially when you look at the results from the third run. The third run you pull half a car on him from 40 to about 100. It looks like he shifted a little early, the only time you pulled on him was during shifts.
There are several shoulda, woulda, coulda's here, let's not get into that.
Stage 1 LNF is a decent warranty tune but should not be considered anywhere near the same class of power as a car with an after-market tune (Horsepower Tuners/Trifecta). Stage 1 with full bolt-on's is still going to lose to a tune only car with a good tune.
The point of my ramblings is that with this video and post you've incited a lot of the animosity on this forum between LSJ and LNF owners. You barely pulled half a car on him in the third run! Stage 1 is what anyone with an after-market tuned LNF would consider slow, and it stuck right by you?? Then you pull the LSJ>LNF stunt without a note of sarcasm anywhere, and then generalizing all LNF owners into douche bags. Of course people are going to get pissed!!!
Maybe you meant to be funny and playful but you came across as a guy with a giant chip on his shoulder. Are all LNF owners cocky to LSJ owners? No. Are a lot of them? Probably. Should everyone check their ego at the door and just get along? Most definitely.
Hope to meet a few of you guys at the CED gathering and have a few beers. Just keep it civil around here!
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but "285/265" seems a bit happy to me (and you're on a smaller pulley now?) for what I saw in the video, and the numbers being bandied about on this forum for LNF's are laughable. Dyno's are not for bragging rights, they are for testing and tuning.
On the first run it looks like you just took off, I don't hear any honking. The second run you honk it off and he stays with you until he goes to shift to third, it's very clear that he missed it, especially when you look at the results from the third run. The third run you pull half a car on him from 40 to about 100. It looks like he shifted a little early, the only time you pulled on him was during shifts.
There are several shoulda, woulda, coulda's here, let's not get into that.
Stage 1 LNF is a decent warranty tune but should not be considered anywhere near the same class of power as a car with an after-market tune (Horsepower Tuners/Trifecta). Stage 1 with full bolt-on's is still going to lose to a tune only car with a good tune.
The point of my ramblings is that with this video and post you've incited a lot of the animosity on this forum between LSJ and LNF owners. You barely pulled half a car on him in the third run! Stage 1 is what anyone with an after-market tuned LNF would consider slow, and it stuck right by you?? Then you pull the LSJ>LNF stunt without a note of sarcasm anywhere, and then generalizing all LNF owners into douche bags. Of course people are going to get pissed!!!
Maybe you meant to be funny and playful but you came across as a guy with a giant chip on his shoulder. Are all LNF owners cocky to LSJ owners? No. Are a lot of them? Probably. Should everyone check their ego at the door and just get along? Most definitely.
Hope to meet a few of you guys at the CED gathering and have a few beers. Just keep it civil around here!
05-26-2010, 01:14 PM
#232
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05-26-2010, 01:42 PM
#233
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When you drive a big truck, you use the clutch to start out from a stop then never use it while in motion. Saves wear on the clutch that way. Get the RPM just right and she drops into gear smooth as glass. Very easy to learn.
Mike
Mike
05-26-2010, 01:56 PM
#234
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Good kill, he shouldn't have been so cocky. There is always someone faster! However......let's analyze this a bit.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but "285/265" seems a bit happy to me (and you're on a smaller pulley now?) for what I saw in the video, and the numbers being bandied about on this forum for LNF's are laughable. Dyno's are not for bragging rights, they are for testing and tuning.
On the first run it looks like you just took off, I don't hear any honking. The second run you honk it off and he stays with you until he goes to shift to third, it's very clear that he missed it, especially when you look at the results from the third run. The third run you pull half a car on him from 40 to about 100. It looks like he shifted a little early, the only time you pulled on him was during shifts.
There are several shoulda, woulda, coulda's here, let's not get into that.
Stage 1 LNF is a decent warranty tune but should not be considered anywhere near the same class of power as a car with an after-market tune (Horsepower Tuners/Trifecta). Stage 1 with full bolt-on's is still going to lose to a tune only car with a good tune.
The point of my ramblings is that with this video and post you've incited a lot of the animosity on this forum between LSJ and LNF owners. You barely pulled half a car on him in the third run! Stage 1 is what anyone with an after-market tuned LNF would consider slow, and it stuck right by you?? Then you pull the LSJ>LNF stunt without a note of sarcasm anywhere, and then generalizing all LNF owners into douche bags. Of course people are going to get pissed!!!
Maybe you meant to be funny and playful but you came across as a guy with a giant chip on his shoulder. Are all LNF owners cocky to LSJ owners? No. Are a lot of them? Probably. Should everyone check their ego at the door and just get along? Most definitely.
Hope to meet a few of you guys at the CED gathering and have a few beers. Just keep it civil around here!
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but "285/265" seems a bit happy to me (and you're on a smaller pulley now?) for what I saw in the video, and the numbers being bandied about on this forum for LNF's are laughable. Dyno's are not for bragging rights, they are for testing and tuning.
On the first run it looks like you just took off, I don't hear any honking. The second run you honk it off and he stays with you until he goes to shift to third, it's very clear that he missed it, especially when you look at the results from the third run. The third run you pull half a car on him from 40 to about 100. It looks like he shifted a little early, the only time you pulled on him was during shifts.
There are several shoulda, woulda, coulda's here, let's not get into that.
Stage 1 LNF is a decent warranty tune but should not be considered anywhere near the same class of power as a car with an after-market tune (Horsepower Tuners/Trifecta). Stage 1 with full bolt-on's is still going to lose to a tune only car with a good tune.
The point of my ramblings is that with this video and post you've incited a lot of the animosity on this forum between LSJ and LNF owners. You barely pulled half a car on him in the third run! Stage 1 is what anyone with an after-market tuned LNF would consider slow, and it stuck right by you?? Then you pull the LSJ>LNF stunt without a note of sarcasm anywhere, and then generalizing all LNF owners into douche bags. Of course people are going to get pissed!!!
Maybe you meant to be funny and playful but you came across as a guy with a giant chip on his shoulder. Are all LNF owners cocky to LSJ owners? No. Are a lot of them? Probably. Should everyone check their ego at the door and just get along? Most definitely.
Hope to meet a few of you guys at the CED gathering and have a few beers. Just keep it civil around here!
I can promise most privately tuned and bolted LNF's who can drive would be a much better match. IMO
05-26-2010, 02:02 PM
#235
You're more than likely right, but he raced a GM Stage 1 SS/TC. He never said he could beat a custom tuned/bolted LNF. Everyone needs to calm down, and stop making up different scenarios about if the SS/TC had this or that mod. All in all it was a good race, and showed that both platforms (SS/SC & SS/TC) are great performers.
05-26-2010, 03:01 PM
#236
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05-26-2010, 03:15 PM
#238
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05-26-2010, 03:17 PM
#239
He was not being cocky. He was real confident. There is a very fine line between the two and perception makes a big difference.
I did 285/265 last year on a 2.7" pulley. Here is my dyno proof from the official dyno thread on this site.
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/dyno-results-170/official-dyno-thread-194257/
ebristol 285whp, 265wtq Verified DynoJet F, H, DP, CD, E, T, DU, 80s, 2.7", M62, HE, E-85 Graph
Now I am running a 2.6" I am going back to the dyno on Friday for my new results.
The LNF numbers on this site are all over the place. Their is a very wide range of number on similar setups. Its hard to know exactly what is what.
The first run I did just take off. I thought he was giving me the "Go ahead" signal to go and he would chase me down. So I just took off.
In the second run I had pulled almost half a car on him before he missed his shift. Then he was 2 cars behind.
In the last run I started 1/2 a car behind him and finished 1/2 a car in front of him. Watch the video again and look at the reflection of my car in his car. My car start just in front of his door handle.
There are always shoulda, woulda, coulda's in rolling racing street videos. That is why people should not take them so seriously. I know there are a lot faster tuned LNFs out there. But on this day, with these two cars, the LSJ was the winner!
I don't remember calling LNF owners douche bags? If I did, I apologize because I don't feel that way. Can you find where I said that because if I called anyone a douche bag I did not mean it.
I have a chip on my shoulder. I won't lie.
I have seen a lot LSJ guys give up on their cars over the past few years. Some have traded in their cars for turbos, some have converted to turbo and some have gotten rid of their cars completely and moved on to another platform.
In the mean time, "Some" of the LNF guys have taken every opportunity to kick us while we were down.
But it is so unfair to generalize "All LNF" and "ALL LSJ" guys into one group. I have very pleased with the majority of comments in this thread. There seems to be a large group of owners from both platforms being very level headed about it.
And there are a few detractors for each side as well.
I did not setup this race with the intention of winning. I genuinely thought I was going to loose. But I wanted to see what a GMS1 SS/TC was all about. I PM'd Matt before we arrange to meet to complete our transaction to see if he wanted to do a few runs. He does not frequent the forums often, never saw my PM and never replied. When we meet in person it was his idea to do a few runs.
Maybe some people are taking this too seriously?
I'll be there. 
I am sure you will find out that I am not as bad as a guy as you think! lol
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/dyno-results-170/official-dyno-thread-194257/
ebristol 285whp, 265wtq Verified DynoJet F, H, DP, CD, E, T, DU, 80s, 2.7", M62, HE, E-85 Graph
Now I am running a 2.6" I am going back to the dyno on Friday for my new results.
The LNF numbers on this site are all over the place. Their is a very wide range of number on similar setups. Its hard to know exactly what is what.
On the first run it looks like you just took off, I don't hear any honking. The second run you honk it off and he stays with you until he goes to shift to third, it's very clear that he missed it, especially when you look at the results from the third run. The third run you pull half a car on him from 40 to about 100. It looks like he shifted a little early, the only time you pulled on him was during shifts.
In the second run I had pulled almost half a car on him before he missed his shift. Then he was 2 cars behind.
In the last run I started 1/2 a car behind him and finished 1/2 a car in front of him. Watch the video again and look at the reflection of my car in his car. My car start just in front of his door handle.
There are several shoulda, woulda, coulda's here, let's not get into that.
Stage 1 LNF is a decent warranty tune but should not be considered anywhere near the same class of power as a car with an after-market tune (Horsepower Tuners/Trifecta). Stage 1 with full bolt-on's is still going to lose to a tune only car with a good tune.
The point of my ramblings is that with this video and post you've incited a lot of the animosity on this forum between LSJ and LNF owners. You barely pulled half a car on him in the third run! Stage 1 is what anyone with an after-market tuned LNF would consider slow, and it stuck right by you?? Then you pull the LSJ>LNF stunt without a note of sarcasm anywhere, and then generalizing all LNF owners into douche bags. Of course people are going to get pissed!!!
Stage 1 LNF is a decent warranty tune but should not be considered anywhere near the same class of power as a car with an after-market tune (Horsepower Tuners/Trifecta). Stage 1 with full bolt-on's is still going to lose to a tune only car with a good tune.
The point of my ramblings is that with this video and post you've incited a lot of the animosity on this forum between LSJ and LNF owners. You barely pulled half a car on him in the third run! Stage 1 is what anyone with an after-market tuned LNF would consider slow, and it stuck right by you?? Then you pull the LSJ>LNF stunt without a note of sarcasm anywhere, and then generalizing all LNF owners into douche bags. Of course people are going to get pissed!!!
I don't remember calling LNF owners douche bags? If I did, I apologize because I don't feel that way. Can you find where I said that because if I called anyone a douche bag I did not mean it.
I have seen a lot LSJ guys give up on their cars over the past few years. Some have traded in their cars for turbos, some have converted to turbo and some have gotten rid of their cars completely and moved on to another platform.
In the mean time, "Some" of the LNF guys have taken every opportunity to kick us while we were down.
But it is so unfair to generalize "All LNF" and "ALL LSJ" guys into one group. I have very pleased with the majority of comments in this thread. There seems to be a large group of owners from both platforms being very level headed about it.
And there are a few detractors for each side as well.
I did not setup this race with the intention of winning. I genuinely thought I was going to loose. But I wanted to see what a GMS1 SS/TC was all about. I PM'd Matt before we arrange to meet to complete our transaction to see if he wanted to do a few runs. He does not frequent the forums often, never saw my PM and never replied. When we meet in person it was his idea to do a few runs.
Maybe some people are taking this too seriously?
I am sure you will find out that I am not as bad as a guy as you think! lol
05-26-2010, 03:23 PM
#240
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05-26-2010, 03:25 PM
#241
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Good kill, he shouldn't have been so cocky. There is always someone faster! However......let's analyze this a bit.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but "285/265" seems a bit happy to me (and you're on a smaller pulley now?) for what I saw in the video, and the numbers being bandied about on this forum for LNF's are laughable. Dyno's are not for bragging rights, they are for testing and tuning.
On the first run it looks like you just took off, I don't hear any honking. The second run you honk it off and he stays with you until he goes to shift to third, it's very clear that he missed it, especially when you look at the results from the third run. The third run you pull half a car on him from 40 to about 100. It looks like he shifted a little early, the only time you pulled on him was during shifts.
There are several shoulda, woulda, coulda's here, let's not get into that.
Stage 1 LNF is a decent warranty tune but should not be considered anywhere near the same class of power as a car with an after-market tune (Horsepower Tuners/Trifecta). Stage 1 with full bolt-on's is still going to lose to a tune only car with a good tune.
The point of my ramblings is that with this video and post you've incited a lot of the animosity on this forum between LSJ and LNF owners. You barely pulled half a car on him in the third run! Stage 1 is what anyone with an after-market tuned LNF would consider slow, and it stuck right by you?? Then you pull the LSJ>LNF stunt without a note of sarcasm anywhere, and then generalizing all LNF owners into douche bags. Of course people are going to get pissed!!!
Maybe you meant to be funny and playful but you came across as a guy with a giant chip on his shoulder. Are all LNF owners cocky to LSJ owners? No. Are a lot of them? Probably. Should everyone check their ego at the door and just get along? Most definitely.
Hope to meet a few of you guys at the CED gathering and have a few beers. Just keep it civil around here!
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but "285/265" seems a bit happy to me (and you're on a smaller pulley now?) for what I saw in the video, and the numbers being bandied about on this forum for LNF's are laughable. Dyno's are not for bragging rights, they are for testing and tuning.
On the first run it looks like you just took off, I don't hear any honking. The second run you honk it off and he stays with you until he goes to shift to third, it's very clear that he missed it, especially when you look at the results from the third run. The third run you pull half a car on him from 40 to about 100. It looks like he shifted a little early, the only time you pulled on him was during shifts.
There are several shoulda, woulda, coulda's here, let's not get into that.
Stage 1 LNF is a decent warranty tune but should not be considered anywhere near the same class of power as a car with an after-market tune (Horsepower Tuners/Trifecta). Stage 1 with full bolt-on's is still going to lose to a tune only car with a good tune.
The point of my ramblings is that with this video and post you've incited a lot of the animosity on this forum between LSJ and LNF owners. You barely pulled half a car on him in the third run! Stage 1 is what anyone with an after-market tuned LNF would consider slow, and it stuck right by you?? Then you pull the LSJ>LNF stunt without a note of sarcasm anywhere, and then generalizing all LNF owners into douche bags. Of course people are going to get pissed!!!
Maybe you meant to be funny and playful but you came across as a guy with a giant chip on his shoulder. Are all LNF owners cocky to LSJ owners? No. Are a lot of them? Probably. Should everyone check their ego at the door and just get along? Most definitely.
Hope to meet a few of you guys at the CED gathering and have a few beers. Just keep it civil around here!
Trash talk is all out of fun
I will also be at CED, and we will be having a Jungle Juice party lol
05-26-2010, 11:44 PM
#242
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don't know if anyone has said this already because I don't feel like reading so many pages, but!!
A cars powerband is from peak TQ to peak HP so those saying the lnf has a shitty powerband are utterly retarded! If the LSJ peak TQ is around 4-4.5k and the LNF is at 2k and peak HP is around 5.5-6k... hmm let me see, I think the LNF has a better powerband.
People really need to know what they are talking about!
A cars powerband is from peak TQ to peak HP so those saying the lnf has a shitty powerband are utterly retarded! If the LSJ peak TQ is around 4-4.5k and the LNF is at 2k and peak HP is around 5.5-6k... hmm let me see, I think the LNF has a better powerband.
People really need to know what they are talking about!
05-27-2010, 01:53 PM
#243
don't know if anyone has said this already because I don't feel like reading so many pages, but!!
A cars powerband is from peak TQ to peak HP so those saying the lnf has a shitty powerband are utterly retarded! If the LSJ peak TQ is around 4-4.5k and the LNF is at 2k and peak HP is around 5.5-6k... hmm let me see, I think the LNF has a better powerband.
People really need to know what they are talking about!
A cars powerband is from peak TQ to peak HP so those saying the lnf has a shitty powerband are utterly retarded! If the LSJ peak TQ is around 4-4.5k and the LNF is at 2k and peak HP is around 5.5-6k... hmm let me see, I think the LNF has a better powerband.
People really need to know what they are talking about!
In all honesty, I would drive either car with either motor...with either power adder.
05-27-2010, 03:21 PM
#244
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I did 285/265 last year on a 2.7" pulley. Here is my dyno proof from the official dyno thread on this site.
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/showthread.php?t=194257
ebristol 285whp, 265wtq Verified DynoJet F, H, DP, CD, E, T, DU, 80s, 2.7", M62, HE, E-85 Graph
Now I am running a 2.6" I am going back to the dyno on Friday for my new results.
In the last run I started 1/2 a car behind him and finished 1/2 a car in front of him. Watch the video again and look at the reflection of my car in his car. My car start just in front of his door handle.
There are always shoulda, woulda, coulda's in rolling racing street videos. That is why people should not take them so seriously. I know there are a lot faster tuned LNFs out there. But on this day, with these two cars, the LSJ was the winner!
I don't remember calling LNF owners douche bags? If I did, I apologize because I don't feel that way. Can you find where I said that because if I called anyone a douche bag I did not mean it.
I have a chip on my shoulder. I won't lie.
I'll be there.
I am sure you will find out that I am not as bad as a guy as you think! lol
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/showthread.php?t=194257
ebristol 285whp, 265wtq Verified DynoJet F, H, DP, CD, E, T, DU, 80s, 2.7", M62, HE, E-85 Graph
Now I am running a 2.6" I am going back to the dyno on Friday for my new results.
In the last run I started 1/2 a car behind him and finished 1/2 a car in front of him. Watch the video again and look at the reflection of my car in his car. My car start just in front of his door handle.
There are always shoulda, woulda, coulda's in rolling racing street videos. That is why people should not take them so seriously. I know there are a lot faster tuned LNFs out there. But on this day, with these two cars, the LSJ was the winner!
I don't remember calling LNF owners douche bags? If I did, I apologize because I don't feel that way. Can you find where I said that because if I called anyone a douche bag I did not mean it.
I have a chip on my shoulder. I won't lie.
I'll be there.
I am sure you will find out that I am not as bad as a guy as you think! lol
On the third run, ok, you started a little behind him. Again, nice kill!
You didn't type out douche bags but "You got to love LNF owners" could be construed as more than gentle ribbing.
Can't wait to meet some level headed people that are passionate about this platform regardless of aspiration choice. I DO NOT think you're a bad guy, just saw how people could take exception to what you had typed.
05-27-2010, 04:01 PM
#245
I wasn't doubting you had a print out of the dyno, I'm saying that every dyno is different. My tune only dyno was 267 and was putting a few bus lengths on Stage 1 cars from 40-110 pulls. I'm not trying to say anything bad about your car, just that dyno numbers aren't the end all be all that some others around here seem to think they are.
On the third run, ok, you started a little behind him. Again, nice kill!
You didn't type out douche bags but "You got to love LNF owners" could be construed as more than gentle ribbing.
Can't wait to meet some level headed people that are passionate about this platform regardless of aspiration choice. I DO NOT think you're a bad guy, just saw how people could take exception to what you had typed.
On the third run, ok, you started a little behind him. Again, nice kill!
You didn't type out douche bags but "You got to love LNF owners" could be construed as more than gentle ribbing.
Can't wait to meet some level headed people that are passionate about this platform regardless of aspiration choice. I DO NOT think you're a bad guy, just saw how people could take exception to what you had typed.
I poke and a prod but it is all in fun.
05-27-2010, 04:40 PM
#246
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There are some real CLASSIC posts in this thread. LMFAO
And there are plenty of STOCK BLOWER LSJ's that can put a beat down on the custom tuned STOCK TURBO LNF's.
And there are plenty of STOCK BLOWER LSJ's that can put a beat down on the custom tuned STOCK TURBO LNF's.
05-27-2010, 11:16 PM
#248
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The thermal and volumetric efficiency of a turbo far surpasses the efficiency of a supercharger, it's fact.
Some ppl are just butt hurt, i'm sorry that $3k invested into a LSJ can barely beat a LNF with a $300-$500 tune. I wonder what has the better HP to $ ratio...
Some ppl are just butt hurt, i'm sorry that $3k invested into a LSJ can barely beat a LNF with a $300-$500 tune. I wonder what has the better HP to $ ratio...
05-27-2010, 11:27 PM
#249
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People are starting to fry their turdos with some frequence. It'll get worse. In the end, you will pay more if you a fry turbo.
