zfissette

iTrader: (5)

Active intercooling. the killer chiller is the basis for my plan to do active intercooling right. Planned mods: dual pass and a phenolic spacer, insulate the intercooler with rubber adhesive insulation, remove the stock evaporator from the ac loop, run ac and intercooler lines to the trunk, a 5 gallon insulated tank with a enlarged evaporator core in it, insulate all lines, install a high-low switch with low set at 35 and high at 45. Adjust the ac cut off to disengage at 50% throttle so its not an irritant during regular driving. The things on my side, the insulated tank wont be under any pressure, unlike the engine cooling system it will never get to boiling so i dont have to worry about making the tank pressure proof, i could literally use a coleman cooler. ac lines are right off the shelf and any company that does custom work, like limos and such will be able to plumb the system without much fuss. the only real question is are there enough laminova cores in our intercooler to really chill the air. i expect the system to drop temps as much compared to the regular intercooler as an intercooler does compared to nothing.
My logic is as follows. When the engine is not in boost IAT2s are almost identical to IAT1s. the amount of heat transfered to the intercooler fluid when not under boost is fairly minimal. The ac is able to drop cabin temperatures under recirc by 30 or 40 degrees vs outside air, and thats with the entire surface of the car conducting heat into it and sun coming through the windows. i believe the cars ac system will be able to chill a 5 gallon tank with ease. when you look at the tiny chillers used to keep a five gallon bubbler cold in an office its laughable to think about our 10 horsepower ac units doing the same thing. My only fear is the laminova cores freezing, like any chiller water is going to condense on it from the air, im hoping that the volume of air will prevent any actual water from accumulating. With the ac system switching on and off as needed to keep the tank cold our mpg will suffer a little but i dont think its going to be anything more than you would get from switching to e85 and with it set to cut out under aggressive throttle it shouldnt interfere with performance. 5 gallons should be enough for 45 seconds of continuous flow before the warmed water starts to come back give our flow rate of about 1 gallon every 10 seconds give or take.
with the phenolic spacer blocking heat from the motor and the insulation on the intercooler itself preventing it from picking up engine compartment heat the entire assembly should get very cold, right above freezing and stay there. every time you lift your foot off the gas the ac would be kicking on to chill the fluid. the extra weight of the system should be balanced at least in part by not having the stock heat exchanger. Im considering having an enlarged condenser made to fill the room left by removing the h/e. if im right about how its all going to play out it will be possible to advance timing to take advantage of the colder intake charge. My goal is to do the entire project for under 1,000. anyone have any advice? Oh and for the knee jerk thats not going to work people, stfu. if your input is negative, dont waste my time.

zfissette

iTrader: (5)

the stock intercooler only contains 2 quarts of fluid, literally half a gallon so that same fuild flows through the intercooler 2 to 3 times during a single trip down the track, this system would hold 10 times that amount plus whats in the lines and intercooler itself so there is no way during a drag race or hard from a roll street race to get through the cold fluid. The plan is to have the outlet at the drivers bottom corner of the tank on the front side, then the return line entering the tank at the passengers top corner also on the front of the tank so the fluid will swirl around in the tank constantly like water running down a drain but never running out with the evaporator core set right in front of the return in the middle of the tank. the swirl should run through it several times on its way down, im even considering a round tank, if i can find a good short tank thats easy to modify.then run it down one side so as it swirls it hits it over and over all the way down.

07BoostedG5

iTrader: (12)

sub'd to read later

05Slowline

iTrader: (2)

you do realize that having a boatload of coolant is not better, right? give it up and get a single pass and be happy i've seen logs of a 2.6m62 with a single pass that had temps like my 3.0 m62 so that speaks for itself.

zfissette

iTrader: (5)

if the intercooler itself gets cold enough it may end up being worth it to insulate the blower as well, see if the system has what it takes to chill the whole assembly, maybe bolt a small radiator right to the top of the blower itself then wrap it in insulation. the idea being that if the rotors themselves are cold, it will help fight the heating of the intake charge. our motors really only add heat to the blower and intercooler is very short bursts we just need to provide them with enough cold to make it through those periods without getting hot. lose some fuel economy and gain a colder intake charge, its going to work, just a question of how much horsepower will be gained by the colder air. Fingers crossed.

zfissette

iTrader: (5)

no passive intercooling system can Ever drop intake charge temps below outside air. They literally cant take it down because the fluid they are using is at best as warm as outside air, most likely much warmer. picture a 80 degree day with the ac on, your heat exchanger is trapped between the hot condenser and the 180 degree (at least) radiator while the intercooler itself conducts heat from the motor directly into the intake charge using the intercooler like a big heat sink. Then you go into boost and the stressed blower begins to heat up since it has literally no cooling ability at all, all the heat the compressor generates is dumped into the intake charge and then the intake charge itself is heated by being compressed before it even makes it to the 100 degree fluid in the laminova cores. Between the phenolic spacer blocking heat from the motor and ac system actively cooling it this system is going to result in a intercooler thats very cold to the touch and IAT2s near 40 degrees.

zfissette

iTrader: (5)

Im probably going to mount a intercooler fluid temp gauge to the pillar and shut the system down when im just commuting, since the blower only heats the air under boost the fluid in the tank should stay about about 5 or 10 degrees over outside air and not get any hotter. its going to be neat tuning it when the system is up and running. heck even a short push onto the highway shouldnt be an issue as long as the boost is kept low, maybe even rig a switch to the blower bypass so that it stays open all the time so you can full throttle merge without it going into boost when you have the system off. it will be like driving a naturally aspirated cobalt until you decide its time to play. just make it one switch that shuts off the ac and forces open the boost bypass. call it performance mode and economy mode. Thats the right call, as long as the system cant go into boost i dont have to worry about an agressive tune causing knock when the system isnt on.

05Slowline

iTrader: (2)

not being a dick or anything so don't take it like that, but picture a 2.6 pulley m62 with iat2's of like 130 on a 80 or 90 degree day without some elaborate scheme. single pass.
all of this for a fwd supercharged car that on an m62 is gonna make at most a hair over 300 being pushed to the max doesn't make sense imo, that's why i swapped lol, but if you wanna do it more power to ya i just wouldn't have high hopes.
also might as well take the ac out it ain't worth a damn unless you're stock .

05Slowline

iTrader: (2)

crusing temp has nothing to do with intercooling really modding the intercooler is more about when you're making boost and how long it takes to recover...everyones crusing will be about the same 10-15 above ambient after the system has heated up.

zfissette

iTrader: (5)

thats exactly what im changing, this car wont be 10-15 degrees above, it will be 40 below ambient on an 80 degree day, for anyone who finds that hard to believe us a infrared thermometer and watch the temperature of the intercooler right below the blower while someone is reving the motor, the after blower but before laminova core temps reach 130-140 degrees easily, the laminovas drop it 40 or 50 degrees with 90 degree fluid, imagine what they will do with 40 degree fluid. if my intake charge is colder, ill be able to advance timing to make more power without e85 or meth, just good old fashioned 93 and plenty of it thanks to 80lb injectors. with 5 gallons it not going to be possible to heat the system up in a single run down the track its going to get cold and stay cold, there wont be any "recovery times".

utsadude

Have you ever thought of writing a book? Because ever post you make is a ******* novel.

But there is no paragraph structure so never mind.

Oh, my bad. You said no negativity. Which is ******* retarded for a thread about something that has never been done before. Outside opinion from people that know what they're doing is key for going where no one has gone before.

05Slowline

iTrader: (2)

haha gl in for the im buying an evo

mrbelvedere

iTrader: (3)

good idea but the killer chiller will not get your intercooler fluid that cool if you want to see a decent drop put a flow through tank and add ice to it

zfissette

iTrader: (5)

the killer chiller is where the idea came from, problem is its a half way measure. this will need to go all the way in order to really be effective. and yes, im not a fan of paragraph construction as an idea. the point is to express information. the laminova core intercooler drops the air intake charge down to whatever temp the fluid inside the cores is at, im going to see how low that holds true to. as for the no negativity comment? im going to do this and its going to result in a chilling effect. im looking for constructive input on how to make it work better or links to sites selling parts for the project, not for trolls to be dicks. stfu ty.
the flow through tank with ice is exactly the effect im going for, but i want it to be zero interaction, start car, drive, thats it. the ice tank would need to be drained and filled with ice over and over. im thinking, start car, watch temps come down, engage boost when temps clear lower threshold. shouldnt take more than a few minutes to get it cold if im driving it gently.

09sscalicobalt

iTrader: (1)

haha damn your run on sentences are worse than mine lol holy **** bro

zfissette

iTrader: (5)

i know. ill try and dial it in a bit. im just fired up about the project. ill sketch up the chiller tank design and post it up when i get the time, its getting late here.

07BoostedG5

iTrader: (12)

after reading, hes got it^

Single pass and a griffin is the answer.

zfissette

iTrader: (5)

single pass and a griffin is the answer to this point. i want better, and im going to get it. going to use tig welded aluminum and have the tank custom made, contacted a company that does ac retro fits today and they said it would be a piece of cake to plumb up as long as i didnt mind flexible hose. going to run the tubing inside the cab on top of the exhaust tunnel.

joshcsepegi

i have been looking into this also. their are 12v fridge compressor's. their made for fridges in boats and rv's if you get a 2 gallon pass through tank and put the cold plate in it you could have 30 degree coolant all the time.

zfissette

iTrader: (5)

the bonneville cobalt that set the blown 4 cylinder speed record used a ice chest pass through tank, its obvious that ice cold intercooler fluid is part of the big power equation, be neat to see if it all comes together. im going to do it in two stages, got all the basic stage 3 upgrades coming now, then im going to put a 5 gallon tank in the trunk and run it in series after the stg 3 intercooler. this should put the total amount of intercooler fluid over 6 gallons, then ill see if constant fluid temps in the intercooler equal constant iat2s. if so, it will be time to chill the tank.

Omnigear

iTrader: (4)

so how colder are you plannin on gettin from ambient?

Powell Race Parts

iTrader: (3)

the bonneville cobalt weighed 5000 lbs. they didnt care about weight they actually want it for LSR runs to reduce wheel spin on skinny LSR Tires. I tested an ice bath on the road race Cobalts, 150 lbs of ice lasted 5 minutes and added weight that offset the performance return from the charge air cooling.
When you are finished, you will have to make the determination from your testing, and see if the added weight, expense, and complexity works for you. good luck with your project.

CleanCut

im not gonna lie, this seems mighty complicated.. a schematic would be nice to have a visual to all the madness in the original post

zfissette

iTrader: (5)

ive simplified it considerably as far as the design goes. a box about the size of a sub woofer box in the trunk (im even going to disguise it that way) that has internal trays forcing the warm water to enter at the top and run the course down the inside of the box from one end to the other back and forth. stage one will just be 5 gallons of fluid. im going to install the 3 gauge a pillar and add iat2 gauge and intercooler fluid temp gauge. then ill record the results. i suspect the higher fluid volume will fight iat2 temp rise effectively. then the stage 2 will be the active cooling for the tank. powells project used 150 pounds of ice, ill be using an aluminum box with an aluminum evaporator core and the lines while removing both the stock intercooler and the stg3. the weight gain should be far less than 150 pounds. the additional fluid will weight about 50 pounds, fairly easy to recover with a fiberglass hood or some interior reduction.