Return Fuel System
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From: N. Side Chi-Town
Thread Starter
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Joined: 07-04-06
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From: Toronto
Looks like a good response so far, the details for the kit are up in the air actually. We've got a kit designed for Rod's 1200HP car, but, this again is a fuel cell w/two pumps and custom fuel rail, etc... We'll think over the stock in tank unit design and see what we can do about the fuel pump in the tank and come up with a design in the next couple weeks with pricing.
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Joined: 06-12-06
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From: ridgecrest, ca
I think you should try to just run a line for the stock pump and have a bolt on pump fitted to the body! That way we can upgrade the pump later on without removing the fuel tank! I think it would make everything about the return system more of an option!
Also maybe with the kit add a bigger fuel line to the system! for us pushing the cars to 500s or so!
Also maybe with the kit add a bigger fuel line to the system! for us pushing the cars to 500s or so!
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From: Toronto
Well guys, here's the low-down:
Jason and I were talking about the entire system design using our tester car (Thanks again for the couple days of use player_1) and we'll again investigate more possibilities but making a bolt-on kit for an inexpensive price seems far fetched.
Here's the many issues along the road to making the kit bolt-on, and this is where we need feedback from the community as how to cut costs and realize how much "work" the end installer is capable of or wants to do. Also, if you're going to upgrade to a return system, you're probably going to want to increase the feed line diameter, doesn't make sense not to.
So let's start with the extreme, a full bolt-on kit:
This means, no drilling, no modifying (very little anyway), or cutting. Just install in the below new units and off you go.
Here's what we realize what you'll need in order to have a full bolt-on kit,
Full Bolt-On Kit
As you can see, this is expensive... Hella, expensive. But everything will work with the stock oem components, emissions and won't require modification by the end installer. So if you just sit back and throw some numbers out for the above components, we're approaching the 1500 mark! Fuel pump: $250, Custom Rail: $300, Custom Module: $300, Lines, fittings, AFPR, high flow fuel filter, things we forgot to mention or even think of: $500 ... Would people be interested in spending that much?
Custom Module Assembly Only
Another option is to make the custom module assembly, such that you can be the one to sweat the rest out, buy the components as you need and make your own fuel rail. The module assembly will have the provisions for NPT fittings and come with a new high volume, high pressure pump. Then, you take care of everything else. Where all you need to do is run whatever lines you need, figure out how to put them into the stock rail, figure out how to put the fuel filter, etc..
External Reservoir System
Another option is to make an external reservoir system, such that the end user installs a feed line into the existing plastic tank, and the external reservoir system will have all the aftermarket components for feeding and returning the fuel and leave the stock emissions, float and other tid-bits in the stock tank. This option scares me, but its an option nonetheless...
This is what we came up with... now we need opinions. Again, the first scenario, where we do all the work is ideal, but again unless there's a strong following, we can't work the price of units if only 2 or 3 are sold / year.... people have to dedicate to the project if they want something for a reasonable price where we can churn out 20 units and get a discount rate purchasing all the components from the warehouse and bring the MSRP well down under $1500 bucks.
Jason and I were talking about the entire system design using our tester car (Thanks again for the couple days of use player_1) and we'll again investigate more possibilities but making a bolt-on kit for an inexpensive price seems far fetched.
Here's the many issues along the road to making the kit bolt-on, and this is where we need feedback from the community as how to cut costs and realize how much "work" the end installer is capable of or wants to do. Also, if you're going to upgrade to a return system, you're probably going to want to increase the feed line diameter, doesn't make sense not to.
So let's start with the extreme, a full bolt-on kit:
This means, no drilling, no modifying (very little anyway), or cutting. Just install in the below new units and off you go.
Here's what we realize what you'll need in order to have a full bolt-on kit,
Full Bolt-On Kit
- Custom Fuel Pump (Hi-Flow Hi-Pressure)
- Customer Fuel Rail (More flow, customizable for off-sized injectors, NPT fittings for new stainless lines)
- Custom Module Assembly (Hanger for new Fuel Pump, Fuel Sender, Float, EVAP line, NPT Fitting for feed & return, Tank Pressure Sender and Wiring for pump)
- AFPR (Self-Explainitory)
- High Flow Fuel Filter (Billet unit)
- Around 10 Aeroequip Fittings
- Stainless Steel Lines, feed & Return (or even nylon up to a point)
As you can see, this is expensive... Hella, expensive. But everything will work with the stock oem components, emissions and won't require modification by the end installer. So if you just sit back and throw some numbers out for the above components, we're approaching the 1500 mark! Fuel pump: $250, Custom Rail: $300, Custom Module: $300, Lines, fittings, AFPR, high flow fuel filter, things we forgot to mention or even think of: $500 ... Would people be interested in spending that much?
Custom Module Assembly Only
Another option is to make the custom module assembly, such that you can be the one to sweat the rest out, buy the components as you need and make your own fuel rail. The module assembly will have the provisions for NPT fittings and come with a new high volume, high pressure pump. Then, you take care of everything else. Where all you need to do is run whatever lines you need, figure out how to put them into the stock rail, figure out how to put the fuel filter, etc..
External Reservoir System
Another option is to make an external reservoir system, such that the end user installs a feed line into the existing plastic tank, and the external reservoir system will have all the aftermarket components for feeding and returning the fuel and leave the stock emissions, float and other tid-bits in the stock tank. This option scares me, but its an option nonetheless...
This is what we came up with... now we need opinions. Again, the first scenario, where we do all the work is ideal, but again unless there's a strong following, we can't work the price of units if only 2 or 3 are sold / year.... people have to dedicate to the project if they want something for a reasonable price where we can churn out 20 units and get a discount rate purchasing all the components from the warehouse and bring the MSRP well down under $1500 bucks.
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Joined: 03-03-06
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
Eh, my opinion is thats just too much to spend on a fuel system conversion. Most of us that have done it on a car whether Cobalt or not can usually fab up something of decent quality for a third of the price, a tuning shop usually for half of that installed.
You are speaking of parts such as a 300 dollar custom module, 300 dollar custom rail and such, which would be ideal for a 600+ horsepower race car but you are targetting the system to a 300-400 MAX hp daily driver for most. What would be wrong with fabricating a kit with off the shelf GM ecotec return fuel rails and finding a pump that flows the equivalent of a walbro 255 or more that would actually fit in the stock fuel module? (there is one out there and it costs ~100$, made by Walbro used in certain OEM applications)
I think the overbuilding and subsequent high price will deter many into building a custom system for their needs, in my humble opinion.
You are speaking of parts such as a 300 dollar custom module, 300 dollar custom rail and such, which would be ideal for a 600+ horsepower race car but you are targetting the system to a 300-400 MAX hp daily driver for most. What would be wrong with fabricating a kit with off the shelf GM ecotec return fuel rails and finding a pump that flows the equivalent of a walbro 255 or more that would actually fit in the stock fuel module? (there is one out there and it costs ~100$, made by Walbro used in certain OEM applications)
I think the overbuilding and subsequent high price will deter many into building a custom system for their needs, in my humble opinion.
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Joined: 02-06-07
Posts: 432
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From: Corning, NY
I'd have to agree... for 1500 I wouldn't be interested... I'd like some piece of mind but that's just a tad steep for me. I know these things cost money but as WITT mentioned it would need to be much more cost effective for the interest to be strong with the Cobalt/Redline community.