http://www.intense-racing.com/Mercha...tegory_Code=IF

seems the 3800 guys are havin good luck with this mod. so i was wondering if there was a possibility of this coming down the pike for us

my concerns would be size/space limitations....is it even possible to fit that large of a blower under the hood, i know some aftermarket supercharger manufacturers have had to supply new hoods with there kits ( corvette http://www.magnacharger.com/sc-c5corvette.htm , 350Z http://www.stillen.com/product_detai...?sku=407352IC3 ) if a new hood is needed would the cost of the kit be to expensive for the consumer to be worth spending the money in r+d to make it

secondly if it is possible would there be room in the adapter between the oem intercooler and the m90 blower to install an additional intercooler to be used with the oem intercooler setup.


it seems like a interesting concept and ive seen it thrown around here and there but i wanted to dedicate a topic that had the pros/cons/cost all rolled into one. would be nice to run at 12psi and flow the same cfm as a m62 at 19psi

 

I can neither confirm nor deny that anything resembling this is being undertaken.


err...umm...hmm....

 

um... that supercharger is way too big for our motors.... A) the size is too large and B) Its too much power. There is a similar Supercharger to that INTENSE one called a whipple. IT hurts things. you need to be highly modded to handle it and have a built tranny. And comming from having a Prix les than a week ago..... INTENSE + Grand Prixs = bad. I havent heard any bad about their Cobalt mods, but their Grand Prix mods all suck, From their LSD (one wheel burnout tool) to their PCM.

 

Its not to big, do some research, you just need to fab up a template, run a bigger s/c pulley for some low boost, you could use half the boost as the m62, and get great numbers.

 

This is not correct. Roots blowers only move air. The air compresses within the manifold. 12psi from an M90 would be the same as 12 psi from an M62. The M90 wouldn't have to spin the M90 as fast as the M62 to produce that though.

Regardless of which model, Eatons tend to loose thier efficiency beyond 18 psi. With the M90 spinning slower than the M62 at those pressures, there will be a greater chance of the boost leaking back past the blower. The M90 also consumes more energy to spin than the M62.

Just some food for thought.

 

...thats a waste of 2,000+ dollars for that small of a gain

 

I say wait for the whipple, its smaller, more efficient, and can make a **** LOAD of boost!!!

 

how much power can our transmissions handle in these cars.... lol

 

Gm states "maximum engine torque: 200 ft/lbs" w/ LSD

http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en...35%20(MU3).pdf

 

Doesn't that just refer to the torque rating of the engine it's attached to? (1 line above)
The actual power rating of the tranny is 258 lb-ft, right? (1 line below)

 

I'm not sure if it meant that the max input was 200 and the max output to the axles was 258 or if it was listing what the engine was rated at. It's not too clear.

 

So that means A LOT of us are going to blow our tranny's aaaaaahhh A while ago then huh?

INTENSE S4 w/2.5, CAI, QTP Electric Cutout ......haven't dino'd yet but I'm sure I'm over that limit!!

 

Don't worry about it, Fast06SS runs 12s and puts down like 280 whp and hasn't had any tranny issues other than blown axles but thats not the tranny itself. Plus on the redline forums theres alot of guys with 280+ whp and no blown trannys (that I've heard of)

 

T E A S E !!!

 

Either way you look at it. Doing a blower swap isn't going to be very cost effective. It's going to cost a ton of money and the gains are only going to be marginal on a stock engine.

 

i can tell you the gains are anything but marginal lol

 

This community is filled with more naysayers then any other I've ever incountered. If it was up to some of you nobody would ever try anything.

 

I am already running 18 PSI and a couple people are running a bit more than that with the 2.5" pulley. How much more boost to you expect to be able to run on a stock motor without blowing it up?

I guess my point is, I don't see the point in adding more boost to a motor that may not be able to handle it. If your going to build a motor for more boost then it will be worth it to upgrade the blower so you can run 20+ psi.

 

It's also filled with a bunch of people who assume that bigger is always better!

 

I agree, if you wanted a car that will make 350whp, why did you buy a 4-banger? if you wanted a car that can keep up with a bigger car that does make 350whp but still gets 20-25mpg, then buy the cobalt... thats what i did. I got this car cuz its fun as hell making 200whp... i have the $1500 torque monster camaro when i want to make 300whp. Why do you think so many ricer honda's have met their doom, 250hp wet shots of nitrous, Garrett T-66 turbos on stock motors...

 

Well, I think many people are interested in the whipple charger because, you can run eaton w/2.5 pulley boost with like a 3.5 pulley, which also means you have less parasitic drag because you don't need to spin the blower up to such high speeds, and the intake charge tempature is way lower with a whipple than with an eaton. I think the whipple is just a far better blower, and if/when you build the motor up, the supercharger is already capable of 35 psi

 

Can I install a bigger supercharger for more HP?



Not really. The size of your supercharger isn’t what’s holding you back. For those that just asked the question, we’re done. If you want to know why, read on…



The roots blower found on our cars is very good at moving air, but not very good at producing pressure. In fact the higher the pressure, the less efficient your supercharger becomes. In turbo or centrifugal power adders, the unit can actually become more efficient with boost, but more on that later…

As the pressure differential from the blower inlet to the blower outlet increases, more air begins to seep around the rotors causing a loss in efficiency. At some point, it actually costs you more power to produce the boost than the HP you gain by the increase in airflow to the engine. For the older Eaton blowers, this point wasn’t much over 10psi. Once Eaton added the Teflon on the rotors around 1995, the efficiency of the blower increased and the maximum usable boost pressure also increased. In 2004 some of the blowers were redone with a new epoxy rotor coating and tighter lobe to case tolerances. This further increased efficiency and became know as the “Gen 5” blower. This version of the blower is found in the M62 on the 2.0 liter Ecotec. Gains with this latest M62 can be had with boost pressures up to around 17 pounds. Since the M62 is capable of producing over 17 pounds with a small pulley, there isn’t much reason to switch to an M90 blower because the increased boost isn’t going to make more HP.


Are their any gains to be made with a larger blower?



Yes. The larger M90 blower can produce the same boost level and airflow as the M62 while spinning slower. The slower spinning lobes create less heat, which means more efficiency. At the same boost level the M90 should make around 5% more power from that increased efficiency. Whether a 5% gain in HP is worth the upgrade cost, is up to you. We don’t feel it is because of the other alternatives.



What about running two blowers?



If both blowers were attached to the same intake plenum, then you could expect the same type of situation as described above. Two blowers would simply behave like a larger blower and give gains as such. High boost levels would hurt both blowers in the same way that hurts one. There is an alternative that no one has tried yet and that is to feed one blowers outlet to the inlet of the other blower. This would result in possible gains well over 30psi. This would also solve the belt slip issue and give you the opportunity to dual intercool. Of course you’d have to be crazy to go through all the work involved with custom plumbing and mounting but it would be a pretty cool project...



So what about a twin screw blower?



Whipple and Kenne Bell blowers use intermeshing ‘screws’ in a male/female pattern to move air. This design, unlike a roots blower, compresses the air inside of the blower. The design produces a steady flow of air, rather than ‘pulses’ of air created by an Eaton blower. This lends itself to more efficient operation, especially at the higher boost levels. However, this style of supercharger is not without its down sides. At low boost levels (1-6 psi) the charger doesn’t work quite as well as the roots blower. While under normal driving conditions the twin screw blowers rob slightly more HP than the Eaton blowers. The tolerances of the twin screw are much tighter and more critical. This makes the blower itself heat soak quicker. It also means a much higher failure rate than the nearly indestructible Eaton blowers. The twin screw does offer some HP gains over the Eaton blowers at the same boost levels but the real magic happens when you want to run boost levels at 15psi or higher. Unfortunately this means belt slippage issues. Most users will find that they have to run wider belts and/or custom tensioners. Depending on boost levels, a twin screw can make 5-20% more HP on Ecotech than an M62.





So what do you do for big power?


In short, run a turbo. Turbo have virtually no limit on boost level or HP level. Running off of the exhaust they don’t have any belt slip issues. Not that a turbo doesn’t have any downsides, it’s just that this article was written to answer the larger blower questionJ

 

That's good stuff ^^^

 

I concur... now lets see if someone DualCharges their SS... ive seen a Mini Cooper S with a beefed SC AND a Garrett T3/4 turbo that makes 400+whp... lol

 

Twincharging has already need done on a Redline and an SS. "Twincharged" on the redline forums did his and Keith Losier has twin charged his Cobalt (Show Car). Keith has the Hahn Racecraft kit on his.