Aftermarket tune using a second ECU?
06-29-2010, 06:48 PM
#1
Aftermarket tune using a second ECU?
OK so I've been told that after I get my CAI installed in the next month or so, I should really think about getting an aftermarket tune. It still makes me a little nervous, since I spent $1,500 on an extended warranty when I bought my car back in February.
I know Trifecta has the stealth tune that is supposedly undetectable, but I'm still nervous. Now I heard that another way to "ensure" warranty is to get a second ECU. Keep the original ECU as-is on the shelf for if you ever need it and do a Trifecta tune on the second one. Has anyone done this and where would I get the ECU? How much? Any other/better suggestions? For my mods so far see my sig below. Thanks!
__________________________________________________
Black 2010 SS/TC – GMS1, Hahn catted down pipe, Hahn catback exhaust | GM racing pedals | OZ Ultraleggera rims |DEPO 4th gen projectors w/ 6K HIDs; smoked LED tails | 20% tint |Pioneer z110bt head unit, Alpine PDX-5 amp, Focal speakers all around
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3835837
I know Trifecta has the stealth tune that is supposedly undetectable, but I'm still nervous. Now I heard that another way to "ensure" warranty is to get a second ECU. Keep the original ECU as-is on the shelf for if you ever need it and do a Trifecta tune on the second one. Has anyone done this and where would I get the ECU? How much? Any other/better suggestions? For my mods so far see my sig below. Thanks!
__________________________________________________
Black 2010 SS/TC – GMS1, Hahn catted down pipe, Hahn catback exhaust | GM racing pedals | OZ Ultraleggera rims |DEPO 4th gen projectors w/ 6K HIDs; smoked LED tails | 20% tint |Pioneer z110bt head unit, Alpine PDX-5 amp, Focal speakers all around
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3835837
06-29-2010, 08:05 PM
#2
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Always keep in mind that a dealer can be a ***** and void your warranty when they see things like your CAI and DP + Catback (yah, yah Magnuson Moss, its up to you to prove the part in question didn't cause the problem and good luck proving that).
If your super concerned about warranty stick with GMS1. If you want an aftermarket tune get a Trifecta tune and a dealer kit, the tune itself cannot be detected but to be extra safe you could flash back to stock if you have the dealer kit. Only point in getting a second ECM is if your going to get an HP Tuners tune and you don't plan on bying the VCM Suite which is pricey.
If your super concerned about warranty stick with GMS1. If you want an aftermarket tune get a Trifecta tune and a dealer kit, the tune itself cannot be detected but to be extra safe you could flash back to stock if you have the dealer kit. Only point in getting a second ECM is if your going to get an HP Tuners tune and you don't plan on bying the VCM Suite which is pricey.
06-30-2010, 08:36 AM
#3
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If you want to keep your warranty then go with the GMS1
If you want more power, while still being able to switch back to stock and hide it lol then I would go with Trifecta
If you want more power w/o being able to switch back then go with HPT
If you want more power, while still being able to switch back to stock and hide it lol then I would go with Trifecta
If you want more power w/o being able to switch back then go with HPT
06-30-2010, 12:48 PM
#7
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Always keep in mind that a dealer can be a ***** and void your warranty when they see things like your CAI and DP + Catback (yah, yah Magnuson Moss, its up to you to prove the part in question didn't cause the problem and good luck proving that).
If your super concerned about warranty stick with GMS1. If you want an aftermarket tune get a Trifecta tune and a dealer kit, the tune itself cannot be detected but to be extra safe you could flash back to stock if you have the dealer kit. Only point in getting a second ECM is if your going to get an HP Tuners tune and you don't plan on bying the VCM Suite which is pricey.
If your super concerned about warranty stick with GMS1. If you want an aftermarket tune get a Trifecta tune and a dealer kit, the tune itself cannot be detected but to be extra safe you could flash back to stock if you have the dealer kit. Only point in getting a second ECM is if your going to get an HP Tuners tune and you don't plan on bying the VCM Suite which is pricey.
06-30-2010, 03:31 PM
#8
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Having a second ECU is definately the best way to go. As far as the Magnuson Moss Act, it is actually the responsibility of the DEALER/MECHANIC to prove that a part caused the problem. They will try and foot the responsibility over to the consumer so they do not have to do the work, but $100 to a lawyer to craft up a nice letter explaining the magnuson moss act to the dealership usually motivates them to follow the law correctly.
06-30-2010, 05:04 PM
#10
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Yeah I also have the ecu swap . Best way to go ... Amazing these E69's aren't too expensive and a lot of them are around ..
I guess they use the same unit in the Diesel Duramax's because they require a whole lot of prceessing power like our DI system .. Our ECU's are some of the most advanced and the O/S's on them are also pretty damn insane ....
If the Duramax didn't have this ECU I doubt we would see what we have as far as tuning ....
I guess they use the same unit in the Diesel Duramax's because they require a whole lot of prceessing power like our DI system .. Our ECU's are some of the most advanced and the O/S's on them are also pretty damn insane ....
If the Duramax didn't have this ECU I doubt we would see what we have as far as tuning ....
07-02-2010, 04:50 PM
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Magnuson Moss won't really help you if a dealer voids your warranty
lets do the math on this: your car is broken, dealer says tough ****
ok, now go hire you a lawyer for thousands of dollars and then wait the 1-2 years for the case to actually go to trial(while your car is still broke, or you paid to get it fixed out of pocket)... then, lets see your civil lawyer go up against GM engineers
that should be interesting, in the end you'd waste thousands of dollars and you car is still going to be broke
Magnuson Moss: looks awesome on paper, now can anyone here actually name anyone who's successfully used it? not hear say, i'm talking knowing them on a personal level... I doubt it
that act was put in place for things like air filters, oil filters, things of that nature... whereas you can use an aftermarket part and the dealer can't void your warranty for not using an AC Delco, Motorcraft part, etc... it was not put in place so you can throw 3" downpipes, charge piping, CAIs, and tunes on your car and then complain when the dealer voids your warranty
all they have to prove is that the part you put on your car caused an increase in power, which their drive train was not engineered for... once they prove the parts you put on your car changed the output, air fuel ratio, etc., no judge in the world is going to rule in your favor, sorry...
if anything, we should consider ourselves lucky when we deal with those "cool" dealerships that will let things like most bolt-ons slide, I have a dealer like that and i'm thankful... they wouldn't let a tune slide, I don't know of any dealers that would... changing the parameters of the ECM is by far the easiest way for them to tell you to take a hike when it comes to warranty work
lets do the math on this: your car is broken, dealer says tough ****
ok, now go hire you a lawyer for thousands of dollars and then wait the 1-2 years for the case to actually go to trial(while your car is still broke, or you paid to get it fixed out of pocket)... then, lets see your civil lawyer go up against GM engineers
that should be interesting, in the end you'd waste thousands of dollars and you car is still going to be broke
Magnuson Moss: looks awesome on paper, now can anyone here actually name anyone who's successfully used it? not hear say, i'm talking knowing them on a personal level... I doubt it
that act was put in place for things like air filters, oil filters, things of that nature... whereas you can use an aftermarket part and the dealer can't void your warranty for not using an AC Delco, Motorcraft part, etc... it was not put in place so you can throw 3" downpipes, charge piping, CAIs, and tunes on your car and then complain when the dealer voids your warranty
all they have to prove is that the part you put on your car caused an increase in power, which their drive train was not engineered for... once they prove the parts you put on your car changed the output, air fuel ratio, etc., no judge in the world is going to rule in your favor, sorry...
if anything, we should consider ourselves lucky when we deal with those "cool" dealerships that will let things like most bolt-ons slide, I have a dealer like that and i'm thankful... they wouldn't let a tune slide, I don't know of any dealers that would... changing the parameters of the ECM is by far the easiest way for them to tell you to take a hike when it comes to warranty work
07-03-2010, 01:35 AM
#19
Senior Member
Magnuson Moss won't really help you if a dealer voids your warranty
lets do the math on this: your car is broken, dealer says tough ****
ok, now go hire you a lawyer for thousands of dollars and then wait the 1-2 years for the case to actually go to trial(while your car is still broke, or you paid to get it fixed out of pocket)... then, lets see your civil lawyer go up against GM engineers
that should be interesting, in the end you'd waste thousands of dollars and you car is still going to be broke
Magnuson Moss: looks awesome on paper, now can anyone here actually name anyone who's successfully used it? not hear say, i'm talking knowing them on a personal level... I doubt it
that act was put in place for things like air filters, oil filters, things of that nature... whereas you can use an aftermarket part and the dealer can't void your warranty for not using an AC Delco, Motorcraft part, etc... it was not put in place so you can throw 3" downpipes, charge piping, CAIs, and tunes on your car and then complain when the dealer voids your warranty
all they have to prove is that the part you put on your car caused an increase in power, which their drive train was not engineered for... once they prove the parts you put on your car changed the output, air fuel ratio, etc., no judge in the world is going to rule in your favor, sorry...
if anything, we should consider ourselves lucky when we deal with those "cool" dealerships that will let things like most bolt-ons slide, I have a dealer like that and i'm thankful... they wouldn't let a tune slide, I don't know of any dealers that would... changing the parameters of the ECM is by far the easiest way for them to tell you to take a hike when it comes to warranty work
lets do the math on this: your car is broken, dealer says tough ****
ok, now go hire you a lawyer for thousands of dollars and then wait the 1-2 years for the case to actually go to trial(while your car is still broke, or you paid to get it fixed out of pocket)... then, lets see your civil lawyer go up against GM engineers
that should be interesting, in the end you'd waste thousands of dollars and you car is still going to be broke
Magnuson Moss: looks awesome on paper, now can anyone here actually name anyone who's successfully used it? not hear say, i'm talking knowing them on a personal level... I doubt it
that act was put in place for things like air filters, oil filters, things of that nature... whereas you can use an aftermarket part and the dealer can't void your warranty for not using an AC Delco, Motorcraft part, etc... it was not put in place so you can throw 3" downpipes, charge piping, CAIs, and tunes on your car and then complain when the dealer voids your warranty
all they have to prove is that the part you put on your car caused an increase in power, which their drive train was not engineered for... once they prove the parts you put on your car changed the output, air fuel ratio, etc., no judge in the world is going to rule in your favor, sorry...
if anything, we should consider ourselves lucky when we deal with those "cool" dealerships that will let things like most bolt-ons slide, I have a dealer like that and i'm thankful... they wouldn't let a tune slide, I don't know of any dealers that would... changing the parameters of the ECM is by far the easiest way for them to tell you to take a hike when it comes to warranty work
Technically the SS/TC uses a torque based ECU. What that means is that no matter what mod you do to the car the ECU should modify the tables to adjust the torque to the programmed allowed torque. I would like to see a GM engineer argue that the ECU isn't working properly which caused your mod to damage the car then explain why the ECU failure shouldn't be covered along with the rest of the repairs. Of course, if you modify the computer you are going to screw yourself with that defense.
My old neighbor across the street from me had a Vette that the dealership refused to repair for him due to "abuse". It took him 2 years but GM had to repay him 100% for the car + they had to pay him for the two years he couldn't use the car due to the lawsuit + court costs. He ended up getting $150,000 when it was all done then he went out and bought a new Vette. He has never had a problem getting any issue fixed on the new Vette.
I am not saying that you should mod the crap out of the car or abuse it and expect GM to repair the car if YOU **** it up.
07-03-2010, 01:53 AM
#20
Senior Member
The dealer can't void your warranty, that is the entire point of the Magnuson Moss act. They must prove that a modification you did to the car caused the failure then they can refuse to cover THAT failure and that failure only.
Technically the SS/TC uses a torque based ECU. What that means is that no matter what mod you do to the car the ECU should modify the tables to adjust the torque to the programmed allowed torque. I would like to see a GM engineer argue that the ECU isn't working properly which caused your mod to damage the car then explain why the ECU failure shouldn't be covered along with the rest of the repairs. Of course, if you modify the computer you are going to screw yourself with that defense.
My old neighbor across the street from me had a Vette that the dealership refused to repair for him due to "abuse". It took him 2 years but GM had to repay him 100% for the car + they had to pay him for the two years he couldn't use the car due to the lawsuit + court costs. He ended up getting $150,000 when it was all done then he went out and bought a new Vette. He has never had a problem getting any issue fixed on the new Vette.
I am not saying that you should mod the crap out of the car or abuse it and expect GM to repair the car if YOU **** it up.
Technically the SS/TC uses a torque based ECU. What that means is that no matter what mod you do to the car the ECU should modify the tables to adjust the torque to the programmed allowed torque. I would like to see a GM engineer argue that the ECU isn't working properly which caused your mod to damage the car then explain why the ECU failure shouldn't be covered along with the rest of the repairs. Of course, if you modify the computer you are going to screw yourself with that defense.
My old neighbor across the street from me had a Vette that the dealership refused to repair for him due to "abuse". It took him 2 years but GM had to repay him 100% for the car + they had to pay him for the two years he couldn't use the car due to the lawsuit + court costs. He ended up getting $150,000 when it was all done then he went out and bought a new Vette. He has never had a problem getting any issue fixed on the new Vette.
I am not saying that you should mod the crap out of the car or abuse it and expect GM to repair the car if YOU **** it up.
07-03-2010, 02:22 AM
#21
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yeah really, people get their warranties voided every day... people with tunes have gotten theirs voided on here... people with bolt-ons have gotten theirs voided here...
and when that happens, hire you a lawyer and see where you get
and when that happens, hire you a lawyer and see where you get
07-03-2010, 09:05 AM
#22
Senior Member
Like I said, if you get a tune you can forget about your warranty covering anything. Most bolt ons shouldn't be cause for the dealership to try and void your warranty but sometimes you have to call their bluff. Since most of the people with this car are young the dealerships always try and get away with as much as they can knowing that most of the younger people are not going to fight or be albe to afford a lawyer.
07-04-2010, 03:07 AM
#23
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The Mag Moss Act was written so that you could put oil, filters, brake pads, and other consumables on your car, without having to buy them from the dealership, and still keep your warranty intact. That's all it's for. It's not for bolt-on performance parts. I hate how you guys throw that Act around like it's going to save your warranty. IT's NOT! If you're not a lawyer, then shut the **** up.
07-04-2010, 10:16 AM
#24
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could we get back to the original topic please lol. i have been thinking about doing this for awhile but i wasnt sure how well it would work. i am a diesel technician for international and our ecms store the miles and hours of the truck. i was wondering if swapping the ecm back and forth would have any obvious mileage discrepancy. thanks
