"There are better FWD cars than the new SS/T."


Sorry Acey, I couldn't say it with a straight face ...

no better fast econobox it seems

ehh.. i cant believe some of u actlike ms3s are wayy better then the cobalt ss/tcs.. i raced a stock one with my ss/sc. and it was about even and im not staged.. not to mention our cars look 20x better then them.. dont get me wrong, their quick but would never choose one before an ss/tc

as far as cheap econo's, or in its class, yes.... on the market... No..

exhaust and boost controller and a ms3 can run 12's. when the cobalt does that, i'll think differently. if you were even with a ms3, it's because the guy couldn't drive, or you're just a much better driver than he was.

yes i do like my wine

ha yea i dont disagree with u. just not a big fan of the ms3s.(appearence wise)

Raw horespower and MPG figures aren't the only things that make a car "the best on the market". If that were the case, then sure, SS/TC FTMFW.

thank you! haha

wait till someone dynos the new ss/tc. The ms3 dynos 235hp to the wheels stock , so be interestig see what the new cobalt does

I already miss that now

Best front driver currently available new in the US market? Maybe. Quite even possibly, but I'd like to sample one first and compare it to the MS3. I think both will be/are extremely well rounded performance cars with slight advantages and weaknesses in comparison to each other. For a driver's car I'd also say the Mini Cooper S should also be considered. It's a little go kart on steroids but gives up some in functionality.

I think depends is the correct answer. While shopping for a new car, I compared the specs and test drove all of the competitors in the same market - Ford, Scion, Honda, etc. You cannot beat this car for bang for your buck - I do consider a few thousand dollars significant - and the SS/tc is the cheapest of ALL of them - by far (if you compare them equipped with similar options). Resale value sucks right now, but will that change with this car? No way of knowing right now. I didn't buy my car for resale value - I purchased it because they fit what I was looking for at the price I was willing to pay.

Best FWD? I don't know - I haven't owned or test driven any FWD cars in a higher class. There are a LOT of FWD cars out there ranging all the way to luxury - how do any of us know if they are better? Better by what metric? Price? Refinement? Luxury? Top speed? Handling? Sound system? Aftermarket? Resale? Options? Interior space? Number of doors? The SS is certainly not a leader in all of those..

A base 'Balt is 13-14k, but SC's or SS/T's went for 22-25k new.

I don't consider anything in the low/mid 20's "cheap". Kia's, Hyundai's, yeah (they don't even offer any REAL hi-perf models).

I think a lot of us need to take down the Lambo posters on our walls and sink back down into reality.

I agree the MS3 is a very nice car, but performance wise, the extra weight of the MS3 means it will lose in a race every single time to an SS/T.

And the new suspension system on the SS/T makes the MS3's look almost outdated.

^x2

The End

for me id say the best on the market is totally dependent on how modifiable it is.

The ss/sc kinda sucks to mod, some spend 1000s of dollars and are still in the 13s
The ms3 on the other hand has been proven to do 12s with i swear under 1000 dollars
so, if the ss/tc can do the same as the ms3 then i might consider it the "best on the market"



are you serious... 20,000 for a new "performance" car is cheap as hell. My question is what kind of new car are you looking at that is considered a performance car and is cheaper than 20,000

this thread makes it seem like i hate the new SS/TC, i love it, im just realistic and without a bias. something thats hard to find on a car forum.

i think most will agree that the 08 MS3 as far as modabliity is light years ahead of the ss/tc. and most of u wont agree but i still think that the MS3 is an all around nicer car with a better engine and nicer interior. not to mention no stupid TQ management...

the new cobalt however, has some really good things going for it. its a sexy ass car, pretty nice suspension and VERY nice brake setup.


i wouldn't call the new ss a class killer.

there both reasonable priced

although the MS3 is slightly less expensive

This site is obviously going to be bias duh. you have to go on forums with multiply car owners and ask this question. your on a cobalt forum asking if the new cobalt is the best car out there of course they are going to say yeah.

hahhahha me and chris are prancing around in the 300's with out even trying.

Honestly though the MS3 and the new turbo cobalt are the same fucking thing. IMO no one is much different than the other. I'm tired of Ms3 owners looking down on the cobalt and vice versa. Theres always pros and cons but thrust me they'll both make nice power and both break shit all the same.

Come tell my 300whp 358TQ that.

The cobalt s/c handles better then the MS3 on stock rubber and the turbo cobalt will be even better. And you guys pray GM didn't screw you over with what ever ECU is in there cause I know US MS3 guys are having one hell of a time with ours.

I actually can't wait to see some modded turbo cobalts start popping up. I love seeing cobalts doing well.

That's not what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is that I don't consider a 22k-25k car as being "cheap" (whether it be a performance car or not).

Didn't know that your car's hp and tq numbers could have conservations ... ;)

Seriously, please provide us with the link that shows us where a stock MS3 has 300whp.

LOL

I wonder if all cars with the newer ECU's are having that problem ...

I'm not sure if you're thinking something else, but they do in fact employ torque management in the lower gears and using the steering angle sensor while turning. I'm also not so sure about being "light years" ahead. They respond very well to intake/intercooler and other bolt-on's, but you still have the direct injection pump limiting overall power when you really start pushing it. I'd suspect the Cobalt and MS3 will face a lot of the same challenges when trying to really make a lot of power, but from an architecture standpoint I'd rather have the Ecotec (but that's not to put the Mazdaspeed's engine down or say it's "weak").

seems to be a continuing trend... they probably dont like it when the customers know more about the engines than they do hahaha i think some of these guys on the site could teach GM a thing or two about their own engine

One reason I say this is because I remember reading where the DashHawk performance timing device will NOT work on our 05-07 SC's (we've got the older style ECU's).

Well something you have to consider is that manufacturers need to engineer a tune that is reliable for more than 100,000 miles - so everything has to be over-designed and under-tuned to be reliable. All manufacturers do this - they know you can get much more power out of the engines with a good custom tune, but do you increase the chances that your car will not reach 100k miles with no major problems?

Even with modern manufacturing, parts variances between engines and other components need to be addressed with a tune that doesn't push the safety limits of the engine and other components, lasting well over 100,000 miles, 15+ years, getting good emissions, AND fuel economy - not an easy task.

Unless you own a hand built car, the tune always has room for improvement.