Does anyone know if the 09 SS/TC will be E85 compatible?

Thanks, Grizzly

 

No it is not nor will it ever be.

 

Why do you say that. . . .

I've been experimenting with e85. Its just like running 105 octane but FAR cheaper.


edit:

to the op. Stock no. But you can make it that way. . .

 

I wouldn't put it in an engine not designed for it. I don't want my seals and other non-compatible parts to be eaten.

 

yes... until your fuel turns into varnish.



cant just add e85 and expect it to run well for a prolonged period of time.

 

BRILLIANT!

 

I have been tuning a fair number of cars lately owned by people who want to run E85, and I have been getting excellent results. Well, I finaqlly got a change to do some back-to-back tuning on a single car with no changes to the car except the fuel and tuning. This is pretty cool.

The setup is:
-100% stock H22 (still in a honda prelude)
-Jackson Racing Supercharger (a.k.a. the "hot-air blower")
-3" exhaust, no cat
-NepTune

This was done using the Dyno Revolutions dyno located at Revolutions Tuning. The car was completely tuned for full-throttle as well as partial throttle all on the dyno, first on 91 octane and then on e85. No other changes were made to the setup, and all the tuning was done on the same day.

It should be noted that NepTune has a feature that allows the ECU to contain an entire second set of maps (in this case 4 additional maps: fuel non-vtec, fuel vtec, ignition non-vtec, ignition vtec). This second set of maps can be switched to based on a set of user-defined parameters. In this case, the owner hid a switch under the dash. So this car is 100% tuned using both fuel types, and all the owner has to do to switch between gas and E85 is to run the tank low, fill up with the desired fuel and flip the switch to the proper setting.

The first dyno sheet is the corrected hp and torque numbers.

-It gained approximately 20whp with no changes but the fuel and tuning. Check out the torque gain across the board, the entire torque curve was basically shifted up.

The second dyno sheet is the equivalent to uncorrected dynojet horsepower with the air/fuel reading.



- The engine coolant temps were on average 15 degrees cooler.
- The Exhaust gas temps were on average 200 degrees cooler.

Since H22's are known for their notoriously weak pistons, I decided to run this car richer on gasoline to add an extra buffer of safety. The equivalent gasoline air/fuel ratio is around 11.3:1. The E85 air/fuel ratio is around 8.2:1. The engine wanted approximately 4 degrees more ignition timing across the board with the alcohol. As you can see, I was able to run this car with a leaner lambda-based air/fuel ratio due to the main fact that E85 burns cooler (and it has a much higher octane rating), so it can be safely run with a relatively leaner a/f. So, even though the car is using a much richer a/f ratio, the equivalent lambda reading is lower.

Let me add this comment, based on the tune I did on the prelude in question in this thread.

When I turned the car on gasoline (same say), I mapped out the VE of the engine. When changing fuel, the "way the engine breathes" will not change, only the amount of fuel required to meet the same volume of air. What I mean by this is that it was rally easy to re-tune on alcohol: I only had to shift the fuel curve up and not rebuild it.

As mentioned earlier, I tuned this car for lambda 1.0 in cruise for both gas and e85. One school of though indicates that you can tune leaner than lambda 1.0 safely with E85 to increase gas mileage. I will experiment with this on my own car, but not someone else's until I can guarantee that it will be safe. I wil not "try something out" on a customer's car unless I can guarantee the desired result.

Having that said, when I tweaked the gasoline fuel maps to tune for E85, I added 30% to start to the entire fuel map. That change right there got the partial throttle maps in check. Because I could safely run the car at WOT at a relatively leaner lambda, I pulled 6% in high load. Then I pulled 6% again. This is what landed me in the region you see in this thread.

So, in cruising, that car wanted 30% more fuel. 1 * 1.3 / 1.06 / 1.06 = ~16%. So at high loads, it only need 15-16% more e85 than gasoline to maintain a 100% safe a/f ratio (and tune overall).

The rule that alcohol takes touble the amount of fuel only holds true for pure methanol. Ethanol takes less than methanol, and ethanol blend (such as e85) takes evenless.

Also consider that, properly tuned (i.e. fuel AND ignition advance), an engine will make more power on e85 in any and every possible condition. SO, it will take less throttle to get to the same torque output. So, when a car is converted to e85 the driver can:
1) start using less throttle to accelerate at the same rates as they did in the past
2) use the same amount of throttle as with gas, and enjoy the benefit of more power
3) somewhere between 1 and 2

So, depending on driving style combined with amount of time spent in part throttle (30% more) and full throttle (16% more), I would estimate that this car will only have somehwere in the 15% range of increased fuel consumption.



Pros:
-More power
-cooler engine
-provides a cleaning effect on your engine
-higher octane
-cheaper fuel prices

Cons:
-a negative impact on fuel economy (with varied results)

adss

 

In your OP, all I read was: "I put E85 in my tank and my engine didn't blow up..."


Seeing as you know wtf you are talking about...more power to you!

 

er... be careful with alternative fuels bro... there is such a thing as have the octane too high for an engine... if you wanna run e-85 look into what should be done for the ingine for it to be absolutely safe. your engine may not have blown up, but you dont know what kind of long term damage you could be starting

 

He would have to obviously tune for e85. That would be the biggest hurdle. You need to add more fuel when using ethanol. Westers & HP tuners have yet to completely unlock the ecm. GM only pushes Flex Fuel on trucks and larger cars so they will not be your answer either. Good Luck

 

im not sure whats involved with e-85 set ups, but i know that it burns slower...

 

lol wow and the intelligence of the cobalt continues onto the ss/tc...

 

um. no.

unless you plan to add 10-20% MORE fuel to compensate for the difference in fuel. gm didn't compensate for it.

 

Exiged, how closely do you have to watch the tune if you're going with a blend of E85 and regular gas. That's the only downside I can see is having to be prepared for different alcohol ratios. Say for instance you tune it for E85, but have to buy regular for a tank full, how simple would it be to keep everything running okay.

Forgive my ignorance, I'm new to computer-based tuning. The only tuning I've ever done is by changing carb jets and moving a distributor cap. This punching a button on the keyboard to change a tune stuff is a strange new world to me...

 

i all translates into the same theory. you twist a dizzy. you add timing. same thing with the high/low octane table in hpt.

you add fuel, or take away fuel with jets, or a screw driver. open or close air bleeds up top. same rules apply into the ecm world. just with a couple different maps.

 

I love seeing these threads. I have been running e85 in my sc for a year and a half now.

 

Let us know how your seals, gaskets, and fuel lines hold up. E85 is corrosive. That is why there is a difference between regular fuel and flex fuel vehicles. Its not just computer work. Most of the fuel system comps in an E85 vehicle are stainless steel due to the corrosive nature of E85

 

did you get the happy bump sticks in yet?

 

No I haven't and its killing me. You get yours???

 

got mine. sitting in the tubes. in a box. on my couch. in my basement.

 

Mine are in the same place actually.

 

doesnt e85 burn significantly hotter?

 

or the internal coating is different

I wouldn't use e85 long term in a vehicle not designed for it, contamination in the fuel system cause all sorts of expensive problems.

 

i think alternative fuel conversion is gonna be a big industry in a few years, if auto shops get on the ball.

 

Does anyone know why GM won't make the SS/T a Flex Fuel vehicle? They've done it to all the truck and good number of cars.

I'm imagining the prospects of a low cost and high octane fuel.

Cya, Grizzly