New here - Dropping Some Pics of the New Cobalt SS
10-30-2007, 04:12 AM
#51
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10-30-2007, 04:12 AM
#52
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No, the stock clutch holds fine, just ask the people making close to 300whp on it. It can hold it, with a decent driver. An amatuer will cook the clutch every time.
The ECU can compensate, it can back off enough timing to drop the torque below 100 ft/lbs really quick, that will let the clutch grab, then when the clutch comes off of the bottom it dials timing back in to get torque back. That is the magic behind the "no-lift-shift". I can do it without the ECU's help, it just requires much more skill and timing, and its not as easily repeatable. This will help some people be faster with the car, but it will help a lot of stupid people break things.
The ECU can compensate, it can back off enough timing to drop the torque below 100 ft/lbs really quick, that will let the clutch grab, then when the clutch comes off of the bottom it dials timing back in to get torque back. That is the magic behind the "no-lift-shift". I can do it without the ECU's help, it just requires much more skill and timing, and its not as easily repeatable. This will help some people be faster with the car, but it will help a lot of stupid people break things.
10-30-2007, 04:14 AM
#54
My mistake. I didn't know that much about the SRT-4's internals. And my mistake again, I thought the LNF balts would have a higher chance, and a much easier time doing it than the LSJ's would. I didn't think it was just because of the turbos, but I thought it was a factor into it.
10-30-2007, 04:14 AM
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10-30-2007, 04:15 AM
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LNF will be able to get to the limit of the internals more easily, due to less parasitic loss from the source of boost. It takes power to spin the blower, like 40 HP or more at smaller pulley levels, so you lose that from the wheels but are still putting stress on the engine to produce that power. Turbos recycle waste energy from the exhaust, meaning power consumption is virtually nil, so right there, assuming all things equal, you could free up 40-50 hp at the crank on an equally modded car. I will admit you will see many LNF cars breaking the 300 mark easily, to the wheels, but much past 350 they are going to be blowing up left and right.
10-30-2007, 04:16 AM
#58
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Thanks
LNF will be able to get to the limit of the internals more easily, due to less parasitic loss from the source of boost. It takes power to spin the blower, like 40 HP or more at smaller pulley levels, so you lose that from the wheels but are still putting stress on the engine to produce that power. Turbos recycle waste energy from the exhaust, meaning power consumption is virtually nil, so right there, assuming all things equal, you could free up 40-50 hp at the crank on an equally modded car. I will admit you will see many LNF cars breaking the 300 mark easily, to the wheels, but much past 350 they are going to be blowing up left and right.
10-30-2007, 04:18 AM
#59
Thats one possibility, but I doubt it, that would cause a boost spike and cause the car to blow-off or start to slow the turbo down, losing too much boost to be efficent. Wait until someone shows HPT logs of it, you will see the IDC and spark advance pulled way back momentarily. If you've ever been next to an SRT that uses that feature (they have a cable controlled throttle so it stays open), they just pop when shifting, like a backfire, from the sharp timing drop, but there is no stop in the pull. Car just keeps on going.
10-30-2007, 04:18 AM
#60
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10-30-2007, 04:18 AM
#61
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yes, that is exactly how it works, it detects the clutch being depressed and cuts the throttle, then as the clutch is being released the ECU reapplies the throttle based on clutch position.
10-30-2007, 04:18 AM
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10-30-2007, 04:20 AM
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Thats one possibility, but I doubt it, that would cause a boost spike and cause the car to blow-off or start to slow the turbo down, losing too much boost to be efficent. Wait until someone shows HPT logs of it, you will see the IDC and spark advance pulled way back momentarily. If you've ever been next to an SRT that uses that feature (they have a cable controlled throttle so it stays open), they just pop when shifting, like a backfire, from the sharp timing drop, but there is no stop in the pull. Car just keeps on going.
10-30-2007, 04:20 AM
#67
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10-30-2007, 04:25 AM
#68
Sorry, they are sweet for the power they can make. I just don't personally like the rest of the car and I wasn't comfortable driving it at all, or i'd have one right now. I'd probably be making 400+ hp, but whatever, I try not to think about that.
Last edited by ItalianJoe1; 10-30-2007 at 04:25 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
10-30-2007, 04:27 AM
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If you are worried about the clutch, don't shift the car too fast, just wait for the revs to drop before re-engaging the clutch. I've seen you say this over and over, i'm not sure what you are getting at. The clutch will hold up fine at stock and slightly modded levels, which is all its designed to do. My car has been holding up to nearly 300 whp for 45K miles, and if I continue to drive it correctly I can make it last for longer, I'm sure. If you are really worried about it, get an Exedy and call it a day.
Sorry, they are sweet for the power they can make, I just don't personally like the rest of the car and I wasn't comfortable driving it at all, or i'd have one right now, and I'd probably be making 400+ hp, but whatever, I try not to think about that.
Sorry, they are sweet for the power they can make, I just don't personally like the rest of the car and I wasn't comfortable driving it at all, or i'd have one right now, and I'd probably be making 400+ hp, but whatever, I try not to think about that.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=JZPEU6ebqEg
10-30-2007, 04:30 AM
#70
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If you are worried about the clutch, don't shift the car too fast, just wait for the revs to drop before re-engaging the clutch. I've seen you say this over and over, i'm not sure what you are getting at. The clutch will hold up fine at stock and slightly modded levels, which is all its designed to do. My car has been holding up to nearly 300 whp for 45K miles, and if I continue to drive it correctly I can make it last for longer, I'm sure. If you are really worried about it, get an Exedy and call it a day.
Sorry, they are sweet for the power they can make, I just don't personally like the rest of the car and I wasn't comfortable driving it at all, or i'd have one right now, and I'd probably be making 400+ hp, but whatever, I try not to think about that.
Sorry, they are sweet for the power they can make, I just don't personally like the rest of the car and I wasn't comfortable driving it at all, or i'd have one right now, and I'd probably be making 400+ hp, but whatever, I try not to think about that.
10-30-2007, 04:35 AM
#71
no one really answered my question so i kept asking,what im trying to get at is the if the power is not completly cut and some throttle is still held while shifting will this not create excessive wear on the clutch if somone were to do this everday while driving their car? If you are saying this is the same as you powershifting while you race thats fine but, thats when you race. This car is being advertized as a no lift shifting car so people will be using that feature to its fullest, Im not worried about this, but id just like it further explained so i can expand knowledge of something that is new to me. If you dont like my questions just dont answer, like i mentioned before im not challenging anyones knowledge, just asking questions to help myself learn. is that not what this site is for?
It is a feature designed to improve track performance, so it won't come into play with anything less than full-throttle shifting. If you are trying to get fast, full throttle shifts during your everyday driving, then you are going to wear the whole car out faster, regardless of what electrical nannys GM provides you.
10-30-2007, 04:41 AM
#72
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ya the dude in the video clear states that when ur foot is planned or WOT that's when u can use the no lift shift,its not a think u can use when ur using 25% or ur throttle.u gotta use 100%
10-30-2007, 04:43 AM
#73
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Ok, I'm just making sure I understand what you are looking for so I can help answer your questions.
It is a feature designed to improve track performance, so it won't come into play with anything less than full-throttle shifting. If you are trying to get fast, full throttle shifts during your everyday driving, then you are going to wear the whole car out faster, regardless of what electrical nannys GM provides you.
It is a feature designed to improve track performance, so it won't come into play with anything less than full-throttle shifting. If you are trying to get fast, full throttle shifts during your everyday driving, then you are going to wear the whole car out faster, regardless of what electrical nannys GM provides you.
10-30-2007, 04:47 AM
#74
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Ok, then GM will explain to every customer that the no lift shifting is for track use only? If not then people, ecspecially younger kids who hear about the "crazy new technology" (note sarcasm) will be burning out their clutches left and right. This clutch without proper driving already does not last as long as many other "performance" oriented vehicles on the market. Im not bashing the clutch becuase this one can be mastered, but if GM is going to advertize this new feature will it also warn those who arent experienced with it? Im not saying this will happen to say me or you but many new drivers will be enticed by the new feature and will use it regularly. I have a feeling this fetaure will be similar to the axles on this car, and GM will recognize the problem but will blame it on the driver using the car for performance purposes. Just my 2 cents