09 Overboost
12-01-2014, 06:07 AM
#26
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Psi was around the same today, wot high rpm 2nd and 3rd gear.
We had something set wrong in hptuners, so the boost on my log doesnt match my actual boost gauge.
John sent me a new config, hopefully going to have another log with the propper data for him on the weekend... Still debating going wot again though... We shall see.
Either way, thank you John for taking the time to help me out, much appreciated.
We had something set wrong in hptuners, so the boost on my log doesnt match my actual boost gauge.
John sent me a new config, hopefully going to have another log with the propper data for him on the weekend... Still debating going wot again though... We shall see.
Either way, thank you John for taking the time to help me out, much appreciated.
12-01-2014, 12:11 PM
#27
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Load up the config file John gave you and go do a WOT pull from 2nd into 4th (you can stop around 5500rpm in 4th boost just keeps falling off with the KO4). Spiking to 29psi on a KO4 a few times is not going to kill your engine or your turbo. Knock will kill your engine and surge will kill your turbo
there was only KR at low rpm, thinking either do to my extremely hard engine mount (yes im cheep and made it myself
) or my trans issue.I am probably going to do a red line run with John's config. I was thinking it over last night, I would rather have the comfort of knowing im not going to blow up my engine or turbo, rather than having to stare at my boost gauge and play with the pedal to keep it off the 200kpa mark.
12-01-2014, 01:07 PM
#29
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He's only flowing around 30lbs/min max by like 6k so he's definitely running a k04. He's also only flowing 24lbs/min I believe when full boost comes in at lower rpm so there's no way he's producing a 29psi spike. Judging from the maf flow and cylinder air mass calcs, at a guess I would say maybe 24psi max. Unfortunately there was so little data to go off, plus he was only logging the mani map sensor so I obviously couldn't actually see first hand any large spikes, but it definitely didn't have the standard tell tales of one in the data that I did have. Once he runs a log with my config I'll have quite a few more answers of course.
12-01-2014, 01:41 PM
#30
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He's only flowing around 30lbs/min max by like 6k so he's definitely running a k04. He's also only flowing 24lbs/min I believe when full boost comes in at lower rpm so there's no way he's producing a 29psi spike. Judging from the maf flow and cylinder air mass calcs, at a guess I would say maybe 24psi max. Unfortunately there was so little data to go off, plus he was only logging the mani map sensor so I obviously couldn't actually see first hand any large spikes, but it definitely didn't have the standard tell tales of one in the data that I did have. Once he runs a log with my config I'll have quite a few more answers of course.
12-01-2014, 05:28 PM
#31
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He's only flowing around 30lbs/min max by like 6k so he's definitely running a k04. He's also only flowing 24lbs/min I believe when full boost comes in at lower rpm so there's no way he's producing a 29psi spike. Judging from the maf flow and cylinder air mass calcs, at a guess I would say maybe 24psi max. Unfortunately there was so little data to go off, plus he was only logging the mani map sensor so I obviously couldn't actually see first hand any large spikes, but it definitely didn't have the standard tell tales of one in the data that I did have. Once he runs a log with my config I'll have quite a few more answers of course.
12-01-2014, 07:24 PM
#32
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The pull starts in second gear, and full boost is hit around 4500rpm where the trims are averaging about -4%. As the pull progresses the trims surprisingly enough level off very close to 0. So long and short of it, there is very little maf skew really.
I'd really like to see a solid 3rd gear pull from 3k-6k to see what the whole picture is here, but he seems pretty hesitant to attempt this. I understand his trepidation to an extent, but I just need the data.
12-01-2014, 07:26 PM
#33
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12-01-2014, 11:59 PM
#34
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We had some issues with the config, not Johns fault, my buddy doesnt know why. there was no pid (no idea what a pid is, thats just what i was told) for the boost gauge so we werent getting a reading from it.
So we started a run with John's config... as soon as my a pillar guage hit the 160kpa mark my buddy, the guy with hptuners on his lap, started wtfing. I got to about 180kpa at wot and I was advised to abort.
It was not being recorded, my buddy wanted to see if infact it was making 29psi as I had thought. It was not a red line run but indeed I was making 29psi boost. 2nd gear wot 5,000ish rpm.
At that point neither of us was confertable doing an actual red line run at wot.
we went through the tune, John can confirm these numbers he has the tune we used. The boost pressure limit was set to 300kpa, minus the 101kpa ambient = 199kpa... so from what I understand I had no pressure limit until I got to 199kpa (28.86PSI). which the turbo pushed out...
So we changed the pressure limit to 240kpa, minus the 101kpa ambient = 139kpa (20.16PSI).
John, does ^ make sense? The boost pressure gauge you put on the config didnt give a read out, so the numbers we got were from baro minus... intake manifold pressure i believe.
*edit* sorry other way around... intake manifold pressure minus baro
So we started a run with John's config... as soon as my a pillar guage hit the 160kpa mark my buddy, the guy with hptuners on his lap, started wtfing. I got to about 180kpa at wot and I was advised to abort.
It was not being recorded, my buddy wanted to see if infact it was making 29psi as I had thought. It was not a red line run but indeed I was making 29psi boost. 2nd gear wot 5,000ish rpm.
At that point neither of us was confertable doing an actual red line run at wot.
we went through the tune, John can confirm these numbers he has the tune we used. The boost pressure limit was set to 300kpa, minus the 101kpa ambient = 199kpa... so from what I understand I had no pressure limit until I got to 199kpa (28.86PSI). which the turbo pushed out...
So we changed the pressure limit to 240kpa, minus the 101kpa ambient = 139kpa (20.16PSI).
John, does ^ make sense? The boost pressure gauge you put on the config didnt give a read out, so the numbers we got were from baro minus... intake manifold pressure i believe.
*edit* sorry other way around... intake manifold pressure minus baro
Last edited by random_letters; 12-02-2014 at 12:13 AM. Reason: cant spell
12-02-2014, 01:22 AM
#35
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No. You need to let John work his magic, trust him, he's a good tuner and knows his stuff. Log it like he's asked and let him look at it. The PID didnt show up because you have to program it, he has the correct sensors loaded to record, then when you send the file to him he opens it on his hptuners with the full config including the calculated PID.
12-02-2014, 11:58 AM
#36
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No. You need to let John work his magic, trust him, he's a good tuner and knows his stuff. Log it like he's asked and let him look at it. The PID didnt show up because you have to program it, he has the correct sensors loaded to record, then when you send the file to him he opens it on his hptuners with the full config including the calculated PID.
My trans started off having a slight noise in low first and 2nd gears. Now (after the red line run) it sounds like its got straight cut gears.
Im not at all questioning John and his abilities. We messed up the red line run John wanted by not having the proper data. At that point I wasnt 100% sure I was boosting to 29psi, I thought it may be a bad reading.
Now that I know it was boosting at 29psi, I dont at all feel comfortable pushing it to red line at that pressure.
If it will help John at all, I can change the value back to 300kpa and send him a log using his config of it reaching 29 psi, but I wont hold it there or red line it at that pressure.
Someone ^ up there asked if it was holding 29psi at red line. Yes, it was holding 200kpa at red line. I dont know if its a stock turbo or not. I bought the car 3 months ago from a dealership. All I know for sure about the engine area, is that the engine has been out of the car. the main wiring harness isnt sitting where is supposed to be in a couple of places, leading me to believe that the entire harness was disconnect from the engine.
12-02-2014, 12:19 PM
#37
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I would like to. But I really dont feel comfortable running at 29psi.
My trans started off having a slight noise in low first and 2nd gears. Now (after the red line run) it sounds like its got straight cut gears.
Im not at all questioning John and his abilities. We messed up the red line run John wanted by not having the proper data. At that point I wasnt 100% sure I was boosting to 29psi, I thought it may be a bad reading.
Now that I know it was boosting at 29psi, I dont at all feel comfortable pushing it to red line at that pressure.
If it will help John at all, I can change the value back to 300kpa and send him a log using his config of it reaching 29 psi, but I wont hold it there or red line it at that pressure.
Someone ^ up there asked if it was holding 29psi at red line. Yes, it was holding 200kpa at red line. I dont know if its a stock turbo or not. I bought the car 3 months ago from a dealership. All I know for sure about the engine area, is that the engine has been out of the car. the main wiring harness isnt sitting where is supposed to be in a couple of places, leading me to believe that the entire harness was disconnect from the engine.
My trans started off having a slight noise in low first and 2nd gears. Now (after the red line run) it sounds like its got straight cut gears.
Im not at all questioning John and his abilities. We messed up the red line run John wanted by not having the proper data. At that point I wasnt 100% sure I was boosting to 29psi, I thought it may be a bad reading.
Now that I know it was boosting at 29psi, I dont at all feel comfortable pushing it to red line at that pressure.
If it will help John at all, I can change the value back to 300kpa and send him a log using his config of it reaching 29 psi, but I wont hold it there or red line it at that pressure.
Someone ^ up there asked if it was holding 29psi at red line. Yes, it was holding 200kpa at red line. I dont know if its a stock turbo or not. I bought the car 3 months ago from a dealership. All I know for sure about the engine area, is that the engine has been out of the car. the main wiring harness isnt sitting where is supposed to be in a couple of places, leading me to believe that the entire harness was disconnect from the engine.
Let me put it to you this way. The most aggressive tunes I do stock turbo will boost 28psi midrange and even at 100% wg duty cycle and everything cranked up the boost will fall to 22psi (152 kpa) by 6300 or so. the Flow at close to sea level is around 36lbs/min max with around 33-34lbs/min at 3500 RPMs and full boost.
12-02-2014, 12:19 PM
#38
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You're killing me here man.
No chance in hell that thing is holding 29psi to redline unless it's an aftermarket turbo, which it's not.
You're really overthinking this. Just make me the bloody log! lol
You mentioned you guys were right there with hpt doing runs. I just don't understand why you didn't just simply hit play?? Issues would have long been resolved already. Load the config, hit play, record the log, email to me. Done and done.
Also, you seem to be getting a tad too hung up on "running at redline". If you don't want to run that high up in the rpm range, that's fine. The more crucial data here is from 3,000-4,500 rpm really. That's where you're massive torque/boost spikes will occur.
As far as what's in the file as far as commanded pressure. I don't have it in front of me at the moment, but nowhere do I once remember seeing 300kpa. I do remember seeing it gradually working up to somewhere in the 285 range, but that was over 5,500rpm. Some folks do that in attempt to push the turbo harder up top to magically create more boost, which it just physically won't and can't do. There is much more involved than just playing with numbers in the DAL's table btw, so stop messing with any tables at this point. Regardless, JUST RUN ME A LOG! lol.. Simply at least give me a couple 3rd gear 3000-4500rpm runs at the very least. Stop with the 2nd gear nonsense.. ;P
No chance in hell that thing is holding 29psi to redline unless it's an aftermarket turbo, which it's not.
You're really overthinking this. Just make me the bloody log! lol
You mentioned you guys were right there with hpt doing runs. I just don't understand why you didn't just simply hit play?? Issues would have long been resolved already. Load the config, hit play, record the log, email to me. Done and done.
Also, you seem to be getting a tad too hung up on "running at redline". If you don't want to run that high up in the rpm range, that's fine. The more crucial data here is from 3,000-4,500 rpm really. That's where you're massive torque/boost spikes will occur.
As far as what's in the file as far as commanded pressure. I don't have it in front of me at the moment, but nowhere do I once remember seeing 300kpa. I do remember seeing it gradually working up to somewhere in the 285 range, but that was over 5,500rpm. Some folks do that in attempt to push the turbo harder up top to magically create more boost, which it just physically won't and can't do. There is much more involved than just playing with numbers in the DAL's table btw, so stop messing with any tables at this point. Regardless, JUST RUN ME A LOG! lol.. Simply at least give me a couple 3rd gear 3000-4500rpm runs at the very least. Stop with the 2nd gear nonsense.. ;P
12-02-2014, 12:22 PM
#39
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The KO4 will not hold 29psi to redline, it just doesnt have enough, the gauge might be saying it does but its not. Also given the amount of airflow you have there is no way its 29psi on a KO4. Take a pic of your turbo after taking the intake off, hold a sharpie or a bic pen next to the inlet for a size comparison (or a ruler if you have one that will fit back there).
12-02-2014, 12:27 PM
#40
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ok, that i feel alot more comfortable doing.
12-02-2014, 12:29 PM
#41
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You're killing me here man.
No chance in hell that thing is holding 29psi to redline unless it's an aftermarket turbo, which it's not.
You're really overthinking this. Just make me the bloody log! lol
You mentioned you guys were right there with hpt doing runs. I just don't understand why you didn't just simply hit play?? Issues would have long been resolved already. Load the config, hit play, record the log, email to me. Done and done.
Also, you seem to be getting a tad too hung up on "running at redline". If you don't want to run that high up in the rpm range, that's fine. The more crucial data here is from 3,000-4,500 rpm really. That's where you're massive torque/boost spikes will occur.
As far as what's in the file as far as commanded pressure. I don't have it in front of me at the moment, but nowhere do I once remember seeing 300kpa. I do remember seeing it gradually working up to somewhere in the 285 range, but that was over 5,500rpm. Some folks do that in attempt to push the turbo harder up top to magically create more boost, which it just physically won't and can't do. There is much more involved than just playing with numbers in the DAL's table btw, so stop messing with any tables at this point. Regardless, JUST RUN ME A LOG! lol.. Simply at least give me a couple 3rd gear 3000-4500rpm runs at the very least. Stop with the 2nd gear nonsense.. ;P
No chance in hell that thing is holding 29psi to redline unless it's an aftermarket turbo, which it's not.
You're really overthinking this. Just make me the bloody log! lol
You mentioned you guys were right there with hpt doing runs. I just don't understand why you didn't just simply hit play?? Issues would have long been resolved already. Load the config, hit play, record the log, email to me. Done and done.
Also, you seem to be getting a tad too hung up on "running at redline". If you don't want to run that high up in the rpm range, that's fine. The more crucial data here is from 3,000-4,500 rpm really. That's where you're massive torque/boost spikes will occur.
As far as what's in the file as far as commanded pressure. I don't have it in front of me at the moment, but nowhere do I once remember seeing 300kpa. I do remember seeing it gradually working up to somewhere in the 285 range, but that was over 5,500rpm. Some folks do that in attempt to push the turbo harder up top to magically create more boost, which it just physically won't and can't do. There is much more involved than just playing with numbers in the DAL's table btw, so stop messing with any tables at this point. Regardless, JUST RUN ME A LOG! lol.. Simply at least give me a couple 3rd gear 3000-4500rpm runs at the very least. Stop with the 2nd gear nonsense.. ;P
12-02-2014, 12:29 PM
#42
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The KO4 will not hold 29psi to redline, it just doesnt have enough, the gauge might be saying it does but its not. Also given the amount of airflow you have there is no way its 29psi on a KO4. Take a pic of your turbo after taking the intake off, hold a sharpie or a bic pen next to the inlet for a size comparison (or a ruler if you have one that will fit back there).
12-02-2014, 12:34 PM
#43
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12-02-2014, 12:38 PM
#44
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Even if you put 300 in those cells in the DAL and max the MALT it still does not like to go over that hard coded temp airload max limit of 255 anyway.
12-02-2014, 12:42 PM
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https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi...AD305F87%21151
thats the tune... well... the tune file is the tune... not the cr2 image...
thats the tune... well... the tune file is the tune... not the cr2 image...
12-02-2014, 12:43 PM
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12-02-2014, 12:49 PM
#48
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WG table is 100% stock for a GMS1. I have no problem with helping him, I just need the damn log with some real data in it. I'm just still not convinced in the least that he's seeing 29psi. In the initial log he sent me there was a brief spike, and then to boost settled into 20psi relatively quickly. There are a couple tables commanding some stuff that I'm not too crazy about, but everything isn't really working all too well together in the calibration to really even make it do what's commanded.
12-02-2014, 12:56 PM
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WG table is 100% stock for a GMS1. I have no problem with helping him, I just need the damn log with some real data in it. I'm just still not convinced in the least that he's seeing 29psi. In the initial log he sent me there was a brief spike, and then to boost settled into 20psi relatively quickly. There are a couple tables commanding some stuff that I'm not too crazy about, but everything isn't really working all too well together in the calibration to really even make it do what's commanded.
do you want 1 run or a few?