2009 LNF Missfire issue
11-17-2015, 06:51 AM
#26
Hmmmmmmmm.
This sounds vaguely similar to what I am experiencing.
Car boosts fine to around 10-11 psi, WOT pulls it misfires almost every time, if I bring the revs up gradually i can get it to 5-5.5k rpm no problems when not under heavy boost ~5psi.
I wonder if there is some sort of issue with my injector however its weird that i'm getting it mostly on 1 or 4 and the occasional random code, maybe a fuel pressure regulator?
The last thing i want to do is randomly throw parts at this car so I will have to see what some digging around brings up.
On a side note, The hose clamps at the turbo and connecting the two peices of the injen CP were not as tight as I would have liked them to be, Tightened them up and it seems to pull a bit better, still misses above 12-15psi or WOT pulls. Went to the local "performance accesories" store last night, they wanted $23 per pair of T-bolt clamps. I'll call my hydraulic hose supplier at work today and see what they carry and how much.
I appreciate everyone's help and guidance. If i could buy you all a beer I would!
This sounds vaguely similar to what I am experiencing.
Car boosts fine to around 10-11 psi, WOT pulls it misfires almost every time, if I bring the revs up gradually i can get it to 5-5.5k rpm no problems when not under heavy boost ~5psi.
I wonder if there is some sort of issue with my injector however its weird that i'm getting it mostly on 1 or 4 and the occasional random code, maybe a fuel pressure regulator?
The last thing i want to do is randomly throw parts at this car so I will have to see what some digging around brings up.
On a side note, The hose clamps at the turbo and connecting the two peices of the injen CP were not as tight as I would have liked them to be, Tightened them up and it seems to pull a bit better, still misses above 12-15psi or WOT pulls. Went to the local "performance accesories" store last night, they wanted $23 per pair of T-bolt clamps. I'll call my hydraulic hose supplier at work today and see what they carry and how much.
I appreciate everyone's help and guidance. If i could buy you all a beer I would!
11-17-2015, 07:50 AM
#27
I make my own beer. Waste of money buying beer these days. You gotta be hardcore and make it.
There's the process in pictures from beginning to end. Vanilla bean Cream Ale
I've made maybe 30 or so batches of beer. heres another that turned out pretty good. Chocolate Milk stout.
There's the process in pictures from beginning to end. Vanilla bean Cream Ale
I've made maybe 30 or so batches of beer. heres another that turned out pretty good. Chocolate Milk stout.
11-17-2015, 12:09 PM
#29
No I re-directed the thread breifly to beer.
Back on track, Will upgrade my clamps this week to T-bolt clamps. My supplier gets them for $4 each.
How tight should the one on the plastic fitting to the IC be? Obviously its not going to be as strong as the aluminum, but id imagine its reasonably strong depending.
Im leaning to a boost leak or injector issue at this point. Im not sure about a coil issue because it idles and cruises fine, just missfires hard under WOT conditions ~15psi and up. Correct me if I'm wrong but that tells me its a fueling issue as opposed to a coil issue, plugs are new, I may pull and check gap on them as I'm unsure what my mechanic gapped them to.
Back on track, Will upgrade my clamps this week to T-bolt clamps. My supplier gets them for $4 each.
How tight should the one on the plastic fitting to the IC be? Obviously its not going to be as strong as the aluminum, but id imagine its reasonably strong depending.
Im leaning to a boost leak or injector issue at this point. Im not sure about a coil issue because it idles and cruises fine, just missfires hard under WOT conditions ~15psi and up. Correct me if I'm wrong but that tells me its a fueling issue as opposed to a coil issue, plugs are new, I may pull and check gap on them as I'm unsure what my mechanic gapped them to.
11-18-2015, 06:48 AM
#30
3 cold starts in a row car has idled really rough and threw a P0014 Code for Exhaust Cam Solenoid Response Slow.
I've replaced the solenoid already, but now I'm wondering if maybe this tune is suspect and not phasing the cams correctly?
I'm debating on either seeing if GM can flash a GMS1 Tune or getting a ZZP 1.0 PCM but I dont really want to spend that kind of money on a guess.
I've replaced the solenoid already, but now I'm wondering if maybe this tune is suspect and not phasing the cams correctly?
I'm debating on either seeing if GM can flash a GMS1 Tune or getting a ZZP 1.0 PCM but I dont really want to spend that kind of money on a guess.
11-23-2015, 07:10 AM
#32
Update:
Replaced the intake clamps coming off the turbo and that connect the charge pipes with t bolt clamps this weekend, didnt have the chance to do the ones at the IC because it snowed.
Car seems to like to build boost better with the better clamps, could be all in my head.
Did several pulls at different throttle levels, loading up the engine differently etc.
If I go right to WOT it will misfire and give me that popcorny sound and not build up boost.
If i roll onto the throttle it will build up 17-19lbs of boost no problem right to redline, maybe a couple of slight misfires but not enough to throw a code or a pending code. Waiting to get access to a better code reader to read freeze frame data from the ECU to verify the misfires.
If i roll on the the throttle slow enough to only build 5psi of boost right to redline, it runs fine as well.
When i build boost up to 17psi or higher the gauge seems to be jumpy. What does the boost gauge use as reference for its signal? Map sensors?
That being said, it idles funny about 50% of the time, it was calling a P0014 Code when it idled funny before, after I replaced those clamps it seems to be calling a P0106 Code instead, along with various combinations of P0300, P0301, P0303, P0304 (Never a P0302).
TL;DR,
Misfires at Idle sometimes, always when you go straight to WOT.
P0014
P0106
P030(0,1,3,4)
It also calls a P013A or P013E every so often but that is due to my long o2 defouler on my cat less downpipe.
The more I drive this and get a feel for how the car reacts to different scenarios, the more I am wondering one of 3 things, Cam phasers, Map sensor or tuning. Whats weird to me is the idling problem stayed the same, but the code seems to have changed with the better clamps from a camshaft code to a map sensor.
Replaced the intake clamps coming off the turbo and that connect the charge pipes with t bolt clamps this weekend, didnt have the chance to do the ones at the IC because it snowed.
Car seems to like to build boost better with the better clamps, could be all in my head.
Did several pulls at different throttle levels, loading up the engine differently etc.
If I go right to WOT it will misfire and give me that popcorny sound and not build up boost.
If i roll onto the throttle it will build up 17-19lbs of boost no problem right to redline, maybe a couple of slight misfires but not enough to throw a code or a pending code. Waiting to get access to a better code reader to read freeze frame data from the ECU to verify the misfires.
If i roll on the the throttle slow enough to only build 5psi of boost right to redline, it runs fine as well.
When i build boost up to 17psi or higher the gauge seems to be jumpy. What does the boost gauge use as reference for its signal? Map sensors?
That being said, it idles funny about 50% of the time, it was calling a P0014 Code when it idled funny before, after I replaced those clamps it seems to be calling a P0106 Code instead, along with various combinations of P0300, P0301, P0303, P0304 (Never a P0302).
TL;DR,
Misfires at Idle sometimes, always when you go straight to WOT.
P0014
P0106
P030(0,1,3,4)
It also calls a P013A or P013E every so often but that is due to my long o2 defouler on my cat less downpipe.
The more I drive this and get a feel for how the car reacts to different scenarios, the more I am wondering one of 3 things, Cam phasers, Map sensor or tuning. Whats weird to me is the idling problem stayed the same, but the code seems to have changed with the better clamps from a camshaft code to a map sensor.
11-23-2015, 09:01 AM
#33
according to other posts and reputable members, P0106 is either a dirty MAP or failed MAP, which tends to be the one on the intake manifold.
Try using electrical cleaner and cleaning it, then replace it if needed. That would likely clear up other issues.
Try using electrical cleaner and cleaning it, then replace it if needed. That would likely clear up other issues.
11-24-2015, 06:41 AM
#34
I was thinking that or bad wiring to the 3bar sensors. I will take the sensor out and clean it all up tonight and see if that clears anything up. If it doesnt I will re-wire the MAP sensors and go from there. They are done with the heat shrunk butt connectors but I'd be more comfortable with them soldered and heat shrunk.
11-24-2015, 09:52 PM
#35
Beat on the car a bit on the drive home tonight. Car missed hard. When ingot home - fuel in the oil.
I'm gonna baby it tomorrow and change the oil when I'm home from work. I'm beginning to question the motor all together. Still haven't had the to deal with the map sensors that's also tomorrow's job.
So new update - misfire caused by either running way to rich or lack of ignition. Fuel is clearly blowing by the rings on the compression stroke.
Bad map sensor could defiantly cause it to run rich.
Bad tune could also cause it to run rich
Bad injector I'd think it would cause issues at all levels of throttle.
Lack of ignition I'm not sure. Coil didn't make any difference so unless it's ecu ignition timing?
I'd rather not throw random parts at this. I guess I really need to check ltft and stft on a good scan tool before I can go much further.
I'm gonna baby it tomorrow and change the oil when I'm home from work. I'm beginning to question the motor all together. Still haven't had the to deal with the map sensors that's also tomorrow's job.
So new update - misfire caused by either running way to rich or lack of ignition. Fuel is clearly blowing by the rings on the compression stroke.
Bad map sensor could defiantly cause it to run rich.
Bad tune could also cause it to run rich
Bad injector I'd think it would cause issues at all levels of throttle.
Lack of ignition I'm not sure. Coil didn't make any difference so unless it's ecu ignition timing?
I'd rather not throw random parts at this. I guess I really need to check ltft and stft on a good scan tool before I can go much further.
11-25-2015, 07:06 AM
#37
Threw a P0014 code again yesterday along with a P0101 Code this morning for the first time. No P0106 in the last day and a bit.
Im still strongly leaning towards some sort of air/intake/intercooler/etc issue. Im not sure though i feel like I'm chasing my tail with this. I regret buying an LNF, i should have stuck with another N/A cobalt. I simply dont know enough about them, if i can get this running right i think i'm going to sell it at a loss and buy something different.
To sumarize my Codes again,
P0014
P0106
P0101
P013A/E
P0300
P0301
P0303
P0304
Ive still yet to see a cyl 2 misfire which is weird.
Replaced cam position sensor, both o2 sensors, spark plugs
Problem summary
Misfires HARD under quick snaps to WOT, occasionally a slight mis at high boost.
Fuel in Oil after excessive misfires (i was really beating on it last night trying to get a code to throw).
Idles rough occasionally on cold starts,
Drives around out of boost near perfect.
Fuel economy is actually really good, AVG 9.2l/100k combined hwy and city, aprox 500 to a tank depending on how I drive it.
Replaced upper CP clamps off the turbo and coupling the two injen pieces together with tbolt clamps, havent done the ones at the IC yet. Seemed to help for a couple days, will double check things tonight,
Code changed from P0014 to P0106 for a couple days after replacing clamps, back to P0014 after a couple days. Threw a P0101 code this morning after babying the car to work.
My thought process
I cant see it being an injector issue, 3 cylinders with major misfires, thats too coincidental for 3 injectors to fail.
I suppose the engine could be toast, but again, when it decides to run right it pulls hard and runs nice, sadly that very rarely happens.
I suppose it could be a boost leak still, I haven't upgraded 2 of the 6 clamps or the couplers on my Injen piping, nor have i taken the first look at the cold/lower side piping, Its also possible that the clamps I upgraded are still leaking or have developed a leak, as It ran significantly better after I put them on, but only for a couple days, after beating on it hard to see if it was still throwing codes, it went back to the way it was before, It could also be a coincidence.
At the end of the day, I need this car to get me to work and back for the next month, after that I'm back in school and can spend more time on it or simply tear the whole thing down if thats what needs to be done.
11-25-2015, 07:27 AM
#38
have you replaced the spark plugs? stick to OEM ACDelcos. also, have you taken care of the 3bar MAP sensors? I believe you said they were crimped correct? are they a tight connection? If the engine moves underload, could be possible its breaking its connections.
My path forward would be to get the car back to factory tune settings and work from there to rule out the tune causing it to run rich. if its still running rich at that point, a boost leak or vac leak of some kind, the MAP sensors not seated fully, or since they are spliced, possibly disconnecting
fuel getting in the oil seems like a damaged piston ring to me.
My path forward would be to get the car back to factory tune settings and work from there to rule out the tune causing it to run rich. if its still running rich at that point, a boost leak or vac leak of some kind, the MAP sensors not seated fully, or since they are spliced, possibly disconnecting
fuel getting in the oil seems like a damaged piston ring to me.
11-26-2015, 06:53 AM
#39
have you replaced the spark plugs? stick to OEM ACDelcos. also, have you taken care of the 3bar MAP sensors? I believe you said they were crimped correct? are they a tight connection? If the engine moves underload, could be possible its breaking its connections.
My path forward would be to get the car back to factory tune settings and work from there to rule out the tune causing it to run rich. if its still running rich at that point, a boost leak or vac leak of some kind, the MAP sensors not seated fully, or since they are spliced, possibly disconnecting
fuel getting in the oil seems like a damaged piston ring to me.
My path forward would be to get the car back to factory tune settings and work from there to rule out the tune causing it to run rich. if its still running rich at that point, a boost leak or vac leak of some kind, the MAP sensors not seated fully, or since they are spliced, possibly disconnecting
fuel getting in the oil seems like a damaged piston ring to me.
I took a look at my new tbolt clamps. They all backed off as well. Why do all my charge pipe clamps back off like this? im hoping this explains the rich condition.
As far as piston rings, I think you may be right, I smell a slight oil smell while driving so it is possible that the car burns oil, whether that is a new thing caused by the misfire or if I just never noticed it before im unsure.
P0101 went away after tightening those clamps, the only code I have pulled so far is that P0014 Code again, im strongly leaning towards that cam phaser at this point, i might pull the motor over the winter and rebuild the whole thing, im not sure yet,
Other than just throwing a new cam phaser on there, what sort of diagnostics can I do to verify that Is the problem?
As far as the piston rings go, I'll do a compression test as soon as I can.
For now I'm babying the car, It was running beautifully last weekend after I installed the tbolt clamps, But they eventually turned into another boost leak, so i'll just stay out of boost until I figure out how to fix that issue.
11-26-2015, 11:31 AM
#41
I didn't overtighten them originaly, I may have the second time around I'll have to check. If I did I'll have to order some better ones.
11-27-2015, 06:44 AM
#42
Took the charge piping apart again, no damage to the piping, clamps were just loose. Im going to try and doube up on the nuts to see if that makes a difference. No codes on the way to work this morning, did a couple of small pulls - no misfires, did a big pull and it missed. I'll have to dig more into why this weekend.
On a totally unrelated note, anyone want to buy a 09 SS/TC? Cheap!
On a totally unrelated note, anyone want to buy a 09 SS/TC? Cheap!
11-27-2015, 08:38 AM
#43
Well maybe that's the reason why you got it cheap......
Always hate to buy performance cars used cause you never know how hard they were ran before you got them. My old z28 burned oil too even though it was low mileage. Thankfully my SS's only other owner was a woman who though it was just "pretty".
Always hate to buy performance cars used cause you never know how hard they were ran before you got them. My old z28 burned oil too even though it was low mileage. Thankfully my SS's only other owner was a woman who though it was just "pretty".
11-28-2015, 11:28 AM
#44
Well maybe that's the reason why you got it cheap......
Always hate to buy performance cars used cause you never know how hard they were ran before you got them. My old z28 burned oil too even though it was low mileage. Thankfully my SS's only other owner was a woman who though it was just "pretty".
Always hate to buy performance cars used cause you never know how hard they were ran before you got them. My old z28 burned oil too even though it was low mileage. Thankfully my SS's only other owner was a woman who though it was just "pretty".
11-30-2015, 06:24 PM
#45
Well, I think im pretty much looking at an engine rebuild, so i think im gonna cut my losses and sell the car cheap. I dont have the time or the money being a student to rebuild an engine, I was hoping for something a bit easier to fix than this, but the problems disguised themselves pretty well.
Still dont even know what the problem is, but im 99% sure the rings are gone. Fuel in my oil again, Im not changing it this time, it hasnt even been a week, i'll just let her blow.
I appreciate everyone trying to help, I really do.
Still dont even know what the problem is, but im 99% sure the rings are gone. Fuel in my oil again, Im not changing it this time, it hasnt even been a week, i'll just let her blow.
I appreciate everyone trying to help, I really do.
Sounded pretty suspect with fuel in the oil in the first place. These cars are great when they come from good owners lol.
12-03-2015, 07:13 PM
#48
155-129-154-159
Not terrible, not great either.
Im thinking Im going to hit up a couple dealers and see what the deal is with a GMS1 reflash, depending on cost i may just get a ZZP canned tune which will probably work better with the K&N. Now I can sleep better knowing Im not out 2k plus for a used LHU.
Does anyone have a pinout for the ECU so I can verify the wiring for the ignition coils and the map sensors?
Ive also been throing the P0106 code more often, I wonder if the sensor itself is bad, might change those out but id like to rule out wiring and tune first.
Not terrible, not great either.
Im thinking Im going to hit up a couple dealers and see what the deal is with a GMS1 reflash, depending on cost i may just get a ZZP canned tune which will probably work better with the K&N. Now I can sleep better knowing Im not out 2k plus for a used LHU.
Does anyone have a pinout for the ECU so I can verify the wiring for the ignition coils and the map sensors?
Ive also been throing the P0106 code more often, I wonder if the sensor itself is bad, might change those out but id like to rule out wiring and tune first.
12-03-2015, 08:09 PM
#49
155-129-154-159
Not terrible, not great either.
Im thinking Im going to hit up a couple dealers and see what the deal is with a GMS1 reflash, depending on cost i may just get a ZZP canned tune which will probably work better with the K&N. Now I can sleep better knowing Im not out 2k plus for a used LHU.
Does anyone have a pinout for the ECU so I can verify the wiring for the ignition coils and the map sensors?
Ive also been throing the P0106 code more often, I wonder if the sensor itself is bad, might change those out but id like to rule out wiring and tune first.
Not terrible, not great either.
Im thinking Im going to hit up a couple dealers and see what the deal is with a GMS1 reflash, depending on cost i may just get a ZZP canned tune which will probably work better with the K&N. Now I can sleep better knowing Im not out 2k plus for a used LHU.
Does anyone have a pinout for the ECU so I can verify the wiring for the ignition coils and the map sensors?
Ive also been throing the P0106 code more often, I wonder if the sensor itself is bad, might change those out but id like to rule out wiring and tune first.
