accuracy of this meth info - Cobalt SS Network

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accuracy of this meth info

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Old 08-17-2018, 09:22 PM
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accuracy of this meth info

hey all.

so my next big mod is installing an aem meth kit and tunning accordingly. ive been reading lots on here about the different locations for the nozzle and my question is which is the best spot you guys who run meth on an lnf have had the most success with? also, i was reading this on the devilsown website and was wondering just how accurate this info is... where to locate methanol injection nozzle

any help on this subject would be greatly appreciated!
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Old 08-18-2018, 09:45 AM
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I'm sure people with turbo cobalts will know better about what works best or is easiest with this setup but for best performance/efficiency you'll want to inject after the intercooler. This will allow your intercooler to work at maximum potential and provide the most cooling of the intake charge. If you inject before the intercooler it will cool the charge going through the intercooler which will reduce the temperature differential between your intercooler and atmosphere which will reduce the amount of heat transferred from the charge to the atmostphere.

Sometimes what its ideal and what works best are different things. Like on my car with supercharger it would be most beneficial to inject after the laminova cores in the intake manifold. However there is no easy way of doing that that will also ensure even distribution to all the cylinders. So I inject before the cores. It drastically reduces the cooling potential of the cores but it does what it needs to. Not ideal but it works.

Just read through it and that devilsown information looks accurate to me. Good stuff
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Old 08-18-2018, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jdbaugh1 View Post
for best performance/efficiency you'll want to inject after the intercooler. This will allow your intercooler to work at maximum potential and provide the most cooling of the intake charge.
yeah thats exactly where i was thinking of tapping into once i read the info on the site over and over. either option 3 or 4 on there would probably be the best spot for me. now i just gotta chose between one or the other.

will tapping into the elbow coming right off my ic be a good enough spot?
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Old 08-18-2018, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by AG305 View Post
yeah thats exactly where i was thinking of tapping into once i read the info on the site over and over. either option 3 or 4 on there would probably be the best spot for me. now i just gotta chose between one or the other.

will tapping into the elbow coming right off my ic be a good enough spot?
I'd think that would be a good spot provided the elbow material is sufficient for threading into or you can somehow place a backer piece to thread into on the inside of the elbow if not. It has to be mounted well and sealed tight to handle the boost. Don't want to weaken the elbow either. Just not real familiar with the details of the system but from a macroscopic point of view that should be a good location. Hopefully others with who have installed methanol systems on their turbo Cobalts will chime in and lend some insight.
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Old 08-18-2018, 03:56 PM
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I've never had to run with it so I have no clue. If I was going to go that direction I would probably go with one of the bigger fuel pumps instead. Unless you just really want to run it.
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Old 08-25-2018, 03:39 PM
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best place is lower charge pipe closer to intercooler. it gives meth time to mix with air so all cylinders get same amount. unless u have a relocated maf, then u cant do that. then ur stuck with a throttle body spacer and u cant spray as much cause it will no mix as well and blow out ur spark. this happened to me. I will probably be going direct port meth over winter so all cylinders get equal amount. Make sure to get aem failsafe as well...so when ur meth fails in some why, it will save ur motor
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Old 08-25-2018, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by tomj77 View Post
best place is lower charge pipe closer to intercooler. it gives meth time to mix with air so all cylinders get same amount. unless u have a relocated maf, then u cant do that. then ur stuck with a throttle body spacer and u cant spray as much cause it will no mix as well and blow out ur spark. this happened to me. I will probably be going direct port meth over winter so all cylinders get equal amount. Make sure to get aem failsafe as well...so when ur meth fails in some why, it will save ur motor
i was thinking of tapping into the elbow that comes off the intercooler but then i figured the couplings would screw some stuff up maybe. so would you say right where the elbow and lower charge pipe meet is a good spot? like right after the coupling there?

how about angle of the nozzle? does it matter?
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Old 08-25-2018, 04:18 PM
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If I remember I was told to install it 6-8 inches from the tb but i need to look again to make sure
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Old 10-15-2018, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Snail_SS View Post
If I remember I was told to install it 6-8 inches from the tb but i need to look again to make sure
that sounds about right at least by where im thinking of tapping (lowest part of the lower charge pipe right before the coupler that connects to the intercooler).

how should i install the nozzle and does it matter? spraying into the pipe downwards, upwards or from the side?
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Old 11-15-2018, 12:44 AM
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ok so in the instructions of the AEM v2 meth kit it says a few very important things that will definitely be an issue with where i want to inject and where i want to mount the tank. the instructions clearly state:

"the tank must be mounted such that it is below the injection point. failure to do so may lead to fluid leaking into the intake tract due to gravity or siphoning, which may result in engine damage"

and then also:

"the nozzle must be mounted such that it is above the tank. failure to do so may lead to fluid leaking into the intake tract due to gravity or siphoning, which may result in engine damage"

since i plan to inject at the lowest part of the lower charge pipe where on earth can i mount the tank at then? i wanted to mount the tank and pump in the trunk but that is obviously alot higher than where im planning on installing the nozzle.

how did you guys that are running meth set your stuff up?
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Old 11-15-2018, 09:31 AM
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My DevilsOwn has a check valve with 16psi cracking pressure so anywhere I mount the tank in the car there won't be enough pressure difference to allow fluid to flow through the check valve as long as it is working correctly and not leaking. I would think the primary danger from an elevated tank would be when your car isn't running and your check valve is leaking/malfunctioning it could empty the entire tank into where ever your nozzle is plumbed which could cause you to hydro-lock when you go to start up the engine. How much higher is your tank than the nozzle? Do you know the cracking pressure of your check valve? Is your nozzle mounted in a location with engine vacuum (I'm not familiar with turbo cobalt intake routing). If you aren't mounting the nozzle in a location with engine vacuum the height of your tank shouldn't cause even close to enough pressure difference to crack your check valve. If this is the case you may be able to implement some sort of manual on/off valve close to the tank that you can shut off when parking the car to prevent risk of your tank draining into the intake if your check valve leaks.
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Old 11-15-2018, 11:41 AM
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If your kit didn't include a check valve, this will allow you to put the tank where ever you want as well as the nozzle.

https://www.snowperformance.net/High...sno-8cv-qc.htm

Before that they used to recommend this.

https://www.snowperformance.net/High...-40060-brd.htm
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Old 11-15-2018, 12:11 PM
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direct port is your best bet imo and is pretty simple to do on an lnf
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Old 11-15-2018, 12:59 PM
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I read somewhere direct port isn't recommended for engines under 400HP. Just sayin...
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Old 11-15-2018, 02:12 PM
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yeah and i read somewhere that meth isn't fuel. Internet is full of crazy lies.
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Old 11-15-2018, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by armcclure View Post
yeah and i read somewhere that meth isn't fuel. Internet is full of crazy lies.

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Old 11-15-2018, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by armcclure View Post
Internet is full of crazy lies.
Where that usually comes from are those that can't read or comprehend, therefore they just call it a lie and make crap up.
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Old 11-15-2018, 02:26 PM
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this is all great info thanks guys. i believe the nozzle from the aem kit is a check valve on its own but im definitely not against adding another one somewhere along the line as cheap insurance.

ok so i shouldnt have a problem mounting the tank in the trunk and my nozzle on the lower charge pipe. does this location look good then? im about ready to get this project started.

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Old 11-15-2018, 02:56 PM
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Yes, if that's where it exits the intercooler.
It would help to insulate that pipe then but most don't go to that much effort.
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Old 11-15-2018, 03:27 PM
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yep thats right at the exit. is there any benefit to the insulation? i mean im gonna have the pipe off for drilling and tapping so it wouldnt be much of a hassle. plus its the lower pipe so nobody is gonna see the ugliness lol
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Old 11-15-2018, 03:42 PM
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If your going to have the pipe off, why not put the nozzle closer to the throttle body.
Most recommend within 6" of the throttle body.
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Old 11-15-2018, 03:58 PM
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This isn't rocket science so lets see if it makes sense.

Spraying at the intercooler exit:
If the pipe from the intercooler to the TB is at ambient temp on the outside, it will not absorb any further heat. (Heat transfers from hot to cold until both are equal) The cooler that pipe becomes below ambient, the faster heat will transfer to it. If you get the air inside the pipe cooler than ambient with water vapor you would want to wrap it to keep it from absorbing any further heat.

Spraying just before the Throttle Body:
The air inside that exit pipe under boost is still hotter than ambient (but cooler than when it went in) and heat will actually continue to transfer out to the ambient air.
It is best to let that pipe continue to be a heat exchanger and spray closer to the TB.

Spraying just after the Throttle Body:
Since water changes to a vapor quicker at pressures below ambient, the spray will vaporize faster during part throttle when injection just begins, helping to eliminate puddling of water or vapor changing back to liquid. The turbulence behind the throttle plate is also greater than in front of it at part throttle. If you have seen the end of the nozzle as the pump shuts off, it is not an immediate shut down rather a spray that ends in a dribble. Being under vacuum will help that evaporate.

I went with injecting right behind the throttle body: High turbulence, Large area, Lower pressure. Just be aware, you must use either a shut off solenoid or check valve there.


Last edited by HGT; 11-15-2018 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 11-15-2018, 04:18 PM
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that makes sense yeah. some say to inject as close to the intercooler as possible to give time for atomizaton but then ive also been told that 6-8 inches from the tb is the reccommended location.

i just want my setup to be as perfect as can be so i can reap the full benefits of the meth. measure twice drill once yknow? wouldnt want to have to remove the nozzle and place it elsewhere on the pipe because it isnt working as best as possible the first time.
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Old 11-15-2018, 04:45 PM
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Most locations are recommended in instructions to keep it easy and easy to get to later to clean the nozzle.
Rarely if at all have I seen people weld 1/8" NPT bungs or drill and tap a supercharger as I have done.
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Old 11-15-2018, 05:08 PM
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It would pain me to drill into my TVS neck. Btw do you actually use that Tmap? or whatever that sensor is right there on your supercharger with your ECM?
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