Can we make 650 or 700 WHP LNF a possibility by spring 2010??
10-31-2009, 12:37 AM
#1
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 12-12-08
Location: NEPA & Jacksonville FL
Posts: 323
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can we make 650 or 700 WHP LNF a possibility by spring 2010??
After reading all Treads/PM's/Emails from some of the members/vendors posting their possible performance gains for future kits..
Now - since it's possible to really push the limit on this lil rocket motor, there has been alot of talk going on - that GM will "most likely keep the LNF around" for other projects (Regal/Bel Air/ Nomad SS), and use it on other platforms (Caprice SS & Impala SS)???? This is great news since it will keep the motor for us as future parts.
The idea here to is keep the LNF as the platform and built on it... But keep the LNF as a platform to make 500 - 600 or even 1500 WHP or more.. I ask this, because there has been show-n-tell recently.. If and when - Trifecta or HP tuners can really crack open or figure out "all of the codes/maps (fuel/spark/ecm/boost)" and are able to write code for it. It begs a few questions:
What parts would you change or beef up (top or botton end) to make the motor last longer??
What would it cost and take to make 500 or 600 or even a 1500 whp LNF motor?? $5k-$15k??
Now - since it's possible to really push the limit on this lil rocket motor, there has been alot of talk going on - that GM will "most likely keep the LNF around" for other projects (Regal/Bel Air/ Nomad SS), and use it on other platforms (Caprice SS & Impala SS)???? This is great news since it will keep the motor for us as future parts.
The idea here to is keep the LNF as the platform and built on it... But keep the LNF as a platform to make 500 - 600 or even 1500 WHP or more.. I ask this, because there has been show-n-tell recently.. If and when - Trifecta or HP tuners can really crack open or figure out "all of the codes/maps (fuel/spark/ecm/boost)" and are able to write code for it. It begs a few questions:
What parts would you change or beef up (top or botton end) to make the motor last longer??
What would it cost and take to make 500 or 600 or even a 1500 whp LNF motor?? $5k-$15k??
Last edited by redstarpa69; 01-19-2010 at 12:14 AM.
10-31-2009, 12:47 AM
#3
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: 12-02-07
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 8,977
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
lol traction would be lovely at 600 hp in a Cobalt. And you must have missed the memo about the high performance divison being cancelled; there ain't gonna be another Impala SS or whatever other SS's you're talking about for quite a while to come.
10-31-2009, 12:48 AM
#4
After reading all Treads/PM's/Emails from some of the memebrs/vendors posting their possible performance gains or future kits..
Now - since its possible to really push the limit on this lil rocket motor, there has been alot of talk going on - that GM will "most likely keep the LNF around" for other projects (Bel Air/ Nomad SS), and use it on other platforms (Caprice SS & Impala SS)???? This is great news since it will keep the motor for us as future parts.
The idea here to is keep the LNF as the platform and built on it and not use a Ecotech race engine. But keep the LNF as a platform to make 500 - 1500 WHP or more.. I ask this, because there has been show-n-tell recently.. If and when - Trifecta or HP tuners can really crack open or figure out "all of the codes/maps (fuel/spark/ecm/boost)" and are able to write code for it. It begs a few questions:
What parts would you change or beef up - or to make the motor last longer??
What would it cost and take to make 500 or 600 or even a 1500 whp LNF motor??
Now - since its possible to really push the limit on this lil rocket motor, there has been alot of talk going on - that GM will "most likely keep the LNF around" for other projects (Bel Air/ Nomad SS), and use it on other platforms (Caprice SS & Impala SS)???? This is great news since it will keep the motor for us as future parts.
The idea here to is keep the LNF as the platform and built on it and not use a Ecotech race engine. But keep the LNF as a platform to make 500 - 1500 WHP or more.. I ask this, because there has been show-n-tell recently.. If and when - Trifecta or HP tuners can really crack open or figure out "all of the codes/maps (fuel/spark/ecm/boost)" and are able to write code for it. It begs a few questions:
What parts would you change or beef up - or to make the motor last longer??
What would it cost and take to make 500 or 600 or even a 1500 whp LNF motor??
You will need forged pistons, other than that I heard that the stock internals are good for like 500 HP. It will cost quite a bit of money, probably a couple thousand lol
10-31-2009, 01:09 AM
#6
Member
Join Date: 07-28-06
Location: Michigan
Posts: 381
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cobra, viper, vette, **** if you want to stay with a 4 banger go SR20 S13. The thing is the car will be utterly worthless on the street from anything less then a 40 roll on slicks. The car will run on only C16 to make that number. It would take a ton of money. Built motor/trans, clutch, axles, big money fuel system, big turbo, different exhaust mani, and a ton of other stuff. My guess is atleast 7k. Chris Rock once said just because it can be done doesnt make it a good ******* idea, this thought applies here.
10-31-2009, 04:13 AM
#8
that would be amazing. but really...you're going to have to read through the build book for those builds. While the LNF varies in some very significant ways to other ecotecs, its still an ecotec, and the block strengthening/rotating assembly strengthening would still be incredibly similar, if not identical for a reliable 600hp+ build
10-31-2009, 04:29 AM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-12-08
Location: East Windsor, NJ & Scranton, PA
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I always love aiming for high hp goals, but I don't think you appreciate just how much power 600-700whp is in a car that weighs under 3000 pounds...
Even if you could get traction by putting that in a rear or awd setup, at that weight the car would be into the high 9 second range....which is totally unusable on the street.
I think 450ish whp is about as much as anybody could reasonably drive on the street with a fwd car.
Even if you could get traction by putting that in a rear or awd setup, at that weight the car would be into the high 9 second range....which is totally unusable on the street.
I think 450ish whp is about as much as anybody could reasonably drive on the street with a fwd car.
10-31-2009, 07:58 AM
#11
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: 05-10-08
Location: Kure Beach, NC
Posts: 11,788
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
civic hatches throw big turbos making like 500whp, a set of slicks, and run 10's.
a local speed shop once told me, "you can get any amount of power in a FWD to hook, but it all depends on how much money you have"
a local speed shop once told me, "you can get any amount of power in a FWD to hook, but it all depends on how much money you have"
Last edited by Gestapo007; 10-31-2009 at 07:58 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
10-31-2009, 08:17 AM
#12
New Member
Join Date: 10-16-08
Location: PA
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After reading all Treads/PM's/Emails from some of the memebrs/vendors posting their possible performance gains or future kits..
Now - since its possible to really push the limit on this lil rocket motor, there has been alot of talk going on - that GM will "most likely keep the LNF around" for other projects (Bel Air/ Nomad SS), and use it on other platforms (Caprice SS & Impala SS)???? This is great news since it will keep the motor for us as future parts.
The idea here to is keep the LNF as the platform and built on it and not use a Ecotech race engine. But keep the LNF as a platform to make 500 - 1500 WHP or more.. I ask this, because there has been show-n-tell recently.. If and when - Trifecta or HP tuners can really crack open or figure out "all of the codes/maps (fuel/spark/ecm/boost)" and are able to write code for it. It begs a few questions:
What parts would you change or beef up - or to make the motor last longer??
What would it cost and take to make 500 or 600 or even a 1500 whp LNF motor??
Now - since its possible to really push the limit on this lil rocket motor, there has been alot of talk going on - that GM will "most likely keep the LNF around" for other projects (Bel Air/ Nomad SS), and use it on other platforms (Caprice SS & Impala SS)???? This is great news since it will keep the motor for us as future parts.
The idea here to is keep the LNF as the platform and built on it and not use a Ecotech race engine. But keep the LNF as a platform to make 500 - 1500 WHP or more.. I ask this, because there has been show-n-tell recently.. If and when - Trifecta or HP tuners can really crack open or figure out "all of the codes/maps (fuel/spark/ecm/boost)" and are able to write code for it. It begs a few questions:
What parts would you change or beef up - or to make the motor last longer??
What would it cost and take to make 500 or 600 or even a 1500 whp LNF motor??
10-31-2009, 11:09 AM
#14
you can make any kind of car hook....rule of them here is fast, reliable, cheap......put 2 together and you dont get the other one. front wheel drive cars can hook up with a lot of power but its definately going to be on a slick, a really good suspension setup, and more then likely a staged boost controller so that it will not deliever max boost right off the line.
10-31-2009, 02:08 PM
#15
Senior Member
I always love aiming for high hp goals, but I don't think you appreciate just how much power 600-700whp is in a car that weighs under 3000 pounds...
Even if you could get traction by putting that in a rear or awd setup, at that weight the car would be into the high 9 second range....which is totally unusable on the street.
I think 450ish whp is about as much as anybody could reasonably drive on the street with a fwd car.
Even if you could get traction by putting that in a rear or awd setup, at that weight the car would be into the high 9 second range....which is totally unusable on the street.
I think 450ish whp is about as much as anybody could reasonably drive on the street with a fwd car.
10-31-2009, 03:14 PM
#16
Junior Member
Join Date: 09-27-08
Location: delray beach, florida
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The key thing here is going to be boost by gear its mandatory. The second thing is a 650-700whp fwd car is not undrivable because the turbo is so large to get there that your not going to get into boost in normal driving situations. Also I own a 3000 pound car with 620whp in a RWD car and I can tell you its scary as hell its not what most of you guys think its not fun it is scary. BUT a FWD car with this much HP is not unheard of at all and has been done 10,000 times. Now as far as anybody doing it within the next 6 months it may be hard we are still missing several key parts that are needed like:
1) fuel system- ZZP fuel pressure modifier probably wont be enough to get to 700whp
2)Ignition upgrades- Were having alot of misfire issues at high boost levels nowhere near 700whp
3)Tuning- ZZP had issues with the throttle closing at 500+whp boost levels
4)Internals- we still lack aftermarket rods and crankshaft, furtermore at 700whp levels we may need sleeves, crank straps, main studs and other stuff nobody makes for us
5) Fitment- I'm not 100% but I believe there may be a problem getting that big of a turbo to fit there to get 700whp you'll need something like a gt40r
6) Tranny- The tranny will need some form of aftermarket strengthening
7) Traction aids- We lack the suspension traction increasing upgrades that other high hp fwd platforms have. Besides tires, coilovers and mounts what more do we have.
Thats some of the things that will need to be worked out to get there. Even if the parts come out to overcome these problems you will need at least 10 grand on the total engine,tranny,suspension,tire package to get to that level. Hopefully some of the great vendors we have can solve these issues.
1) fuel system- ZZP fuel pressure modifier probably wont be enough to get to 700whp
2)Ignition upgrades- Were having alot of misfire issues at high boost levels nowhere near 700whp
3)Tuning- ZZP had issues with the throttle closing at 500+whp boost levels
4)Internals- we still lack aftermarket rods and crankshaft, furtermore at 700whp levels we may need sleeves, crank straps, main studs and other stuff nobody makes for us
5) Fitment- I'm not 100% but I believe there may be a problem getting that big of a turbo to fit there to get 700whp you'll need something like a gt40r
6) Tranny- The tranny will need some form of aftermarket strengthening
7) Traction aids- We lack the suspension traction increasing upgrades that other high hp fwd platforms have. Besides tires, coilovers and mounts what more do we have.
Thats some of the things that will need to be worked out to get there. Even if the parts come out to overcome these problems you will need at least 10 grand on the total engine,tranny,suspension,tire package to get to that level. Hopefully some of the great vendors we have can solve these issues.
10-31-2009, 04:00 PM
#17
^ most of those issues have been resolved with the other race ecotecs..
the only issues you noted that is LNF specific are the first 4, though #2 is irrelevant because you an just swap to w/e ignition the drag cobalts use, and #3 is irrelevant because you'd probably be at a standalone at that point. (do they make DI compatible stand alones?)
also, for #4, it MAY be a non-issue. Would LSJ rods work? Obviously the crank side is the same, but is the piston side of the rod the same? The surface of the piston is dramatically different, but if the dimensions of the underside are good, then we have a suitable rod right there
the only issues you noted that is LNF specific are the first 4, though #2 is irrelevant because you an just swap to w/e ignition the drag cobalts use, and #3 is irrelevant because you'd probably be at a standalone at that point. (do they make DI compatible stand alones?)
also, for #4, it MAY be a non-issue. Would LSJ rods work? Obviously the crank side is the same, but is the piston side of the rod the same? The surface of the piston is dramatically different, but if the dimensions of the underside are good, then we have a suitable rod right there
10-31-2009, 04:15 PM
#19
Junior Member
Join Date: 09-27-08
Location: delray beach, florida
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
^ most of those issues have been resolved with the other race ecotecs..
the only issues you noted that is LNF specific are the first 4, though #2 is irrelevant because you an just swap to w/e ignition the drag cobalts use, and #3 is irrelevant because you'd probably be at a standalone at that point. (do they make DI compatible stand alones?)
also, for #4, it MAY be a non-issue. Would LSJ rods work? Obviously the crank side is the same, but is the piston side of the rod the same? The surface of the piston is dramatically different, but if the dimensions of the underside are good, then we have a suitable rod right there
the only issues you noted that is LNF specific are the first 4, though #2 is irrelevant because you an just swap to w/e ignition the drag cobalts use, and #3 is irrelevant because you'd probably be at a standalone at that point. (do they make DI compatible stand alones?)
also, for #4, it MAY be a non-issue. Would LSJ rods work? Obviously the crank side is the same, but is the piston side of the rod the same? The surface of the piston is dramatically different, but if the dimensions of the underside are good, then we have a suitable rod right there
Most of those problems aren't to huge I think the big ones are going to be #1 and #3
400hp is just about useless in a fwd.... 6 or 7 you would need slicks that stick out a foot past your fender
11-01-2009, 02:48 PM
#23
The only thing with #3 is that if we get the stock ECU fully unlocked its should be more than capable of handling the job lookk at the LS motor cars there are guys running deep into the 8s with the stock ecu and hpt. I don't know any standalones that work with DI hopefully they do.
Most of those problems aren't to huge I think the big ones are going to be #1 and #3
Most of those problems aren't to huge I think the big ones are going to be #1 and #3
I dont think anyone will really know until the ECM is fully unlocked
11-01-2009, 02:55 PM
#24
Junior Member
Join Date: 09-27-08
Location: delray beach, florida
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
see, I dont know about that. Its different on an LS motor because they have 2x the injectors and 3x the displacement already, and their ECMs are set up for that. They can run 60lb injectors and make 700whp. We cant really do that. we would need a LOT more boost to make the power of a boosted V8, and IDK what the stock ECM's limits are on how high of a MAF reading it will take before going into limp mode, or how high of a pressure it can see, or how high of an aftermarket MAP sensor can be installed, etc.
I dont think anyone will really know until the ECM is fully unlocked
I dont think anyone will really know until the ECM is fully unlocked
