It is basally what it sounds like. A electrically assisted turbo (hybrid turbo) uses a electric motor to assist the turbo during spool up. This combination rapidly spools up the turbo and eliminates lag. Once the turbo is at normal operational speed, the electric motor is reversed, turning it into a highly efficient generator. The energy is then stored and is used during next spool up. Garrett had one called the Dynacharger, however I can not find any information on it after 1999, or if it ever reached production.
Check out these articles:

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Hybrid turbocharger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What do you all think?
Is it a new technology that needs to be developed, or is it a dead in? Why or Why not?
If it could be developed is it worth the cost, or would funds be sent in other areas? (ex: light weight technology, air sleeves, or magnetic ball bearings, etc.?)

 

that sounds like a good idea actually. sub'd for more info

 

It is basally what it sounds like. A electrically assisted turbo (hybrid turbo) uses a electric motor to assist the turbo during spool up. This combination rapidly spools up the turbo and eliminates lag. Once the turbo is at normal operational speed, the electric motor is reversed, turning it into a highly efficient generator. The energy is then stored and is used during next spool up. Garrett had one called the Dynacharger, however I can not find any information on it after 1999, or if it ever reached production.
Check out these articles:

Browser Warning

Browser Warning

Hybrid turbocharger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What do you all think?
Is it a new technology that needs to be developed, or is it a dead in? Why or Why not?
If it could be developed is it worth the cost, or would funds be sent in other areas? (ex: light weight technology, air sleeves, or magnetic ball bearings, etc.?)

 

Sounds like a pretty complex setup, might be pretty sick for a real big turbo though.

I think I've seen a video of a hybrid srt4 and it was pretty sick.

 

Awesome.

 

i wish cars came from the factory with that

 

my buddy is running hybrid turbo on his prelude maybe he could shine more light on it i get back on wensday ill get him to come to this thread

 

That would be cool if your buddy could shed some light on this. I don't understand why this is not done more often. It just makes sense. The performance of a V8 - a few hundred lbs! The only problem I can see is battery drain (however it recovers fast) and the ability of the electronics /magnets to withstand the heat of the turbo (magnets loose magnetivity at high temperatures)

 

thats old news, i heard before the new gtr came out that it would have those, dont know if it does or not

 

This technology has been around since WWII - the Germans invented this to help with there airplane engine designs but never made it into production. Seen it on the History Channel. The VW guys have worked on this before, in early 70's before the gas crunch. I personally think it will come out in the future but it will take a large auto manufacture like Toyota/ Ford or even VW to make it mainstream viable.

 

Chevrolet Cobalt T3T4 TurboCharger Turbo Kit - eBay (item 350419479222 end time Feb-01-11 12:47:29 PST)

this is probably a really bad example but it says its a hybrid one and for that price if a hybrid is good why not right haha

 

^ haha are you serious?

 

he asked about hybrid turbo and that is what that is haha i said it was bad example but he asked if they were still for sale haha

 

curiosity had caught me

 

hmm interesting

 

Yeah guys I just looked at Borg Warner's web sight. Looks like an electrically assisted turbo is a no go. We need a 42V system to make it work right. 12V is just not going to cut it. It looks like they are still trying to make it work on a 12V system, but does not look promising. By the time, they get it to work we might all be running on something other than gasoline lol.

Here is the article: Some of it is over my head
http://www.turbos.bwauto.com/tools/d...nt&r=138&d=325

 

 

I've thought about this in the past.

Lets say you wanted full spool. Well full spool for your typical turbine is about 125,000rpm.

Do you know of an electric motor that can spin that fast?

A realistic motor speed is more like 1250rpm. You could make that work if you had a 100:1 gear reduced drivetrain from the motor to the turbo prop shaft. But to do a 100:1 reduction thats a lot of gears, a lot of complexity, and a lot of added weight.

Lets say had a 12500rpm electric motor. that might work better as you'd only need a 10:1 reduction. My personal experience is that motors dont last to long when they spin at 12500rpm.

The other thing is the power required. It takes some serious power to move air at 300-600cfm (typical numbers off the top of my head for turbo/engine flow). Like you said, its only been achieved with a 42V system. Thats still probably a lot of amps. I could do the math..but...nah.

As far as the regenerative system. To me thats robbing power that could be used to to flow more air. power in=power out. use more of the power in to regenerate motor power, that leaves less power out to flow air. So by doing that you are sacrificing top end for faster bottom end spool up. Basically the same effect as having a smaller turbo except probably more faster spool up and less loss at the top end.

I'd rather have it w/o the regeneration and be designed to run off the rest of the car's electrical system, which isn't 42V i know. I'd even want the motor-to-turbine-propshaft drivetrain to be clutched so it could be disconnected altogether to eliminate most of the parasitic losses.


Conclusion: I think the technology has potential, but its not there yet. There's no need to try to put a current electric-hybrid-turbo on your car. There are cheaper, more reliable, more efficient ways to achieve nearly the same effect. Let borg warner, Garrett, mitsubishi, ishi heavy industries, etc. spend a little more R & D money on it before you buy into it.

 

if im not mistaken ryan from zzp runs a hybrid turbo dont know if its this one were talking about.

 

jesus guys....

OP is asking about a hybrid turbo as in a turbo that is spooled by exhaust gasses AND an electric motor.

so please, STOP talking about the kind of hybrid turbos that just use a compressor wheel from a different turbo

 

If you would've taken the time to read the wiki article he linked, you would've seen that the motor used in the hybrid turbo application there tops out at 120 000 RPM and accelerates from 40 000 to 120 000 in about 0.45 seconds. And this is not a geared output speed, it's the motor shaft speed. Brushless electric motors can wind pretty fast nowadays, just the small one in my HPI R/C car does a little over 40 000 rpm. And of course, using a brushless motor requires and ESC (Electronic speed control) which modulates the amperage and voltage output to the motor. It gives out alot of amps at low voltage for take off to have maximum torque and gradually drops amperage and ramps up the voltage to give it more speed at the high end. So basically what this means is that the ESC can accept pretty much any voltage it was designed for. For example, my HPI's ESC runs on the 7.2v battery i got in it, but it accepts up to 14.4v batteries without burning or whatever. So already with just this R/C speed controler we would be able to put it and run it on a car battery and use the motor for whatever we want to do with it. Oh and that little ESC also peaks out 380A at motor startup using that 7.2v 4.2A/h battery, so yeah that's alot of aperage but that's the basis of electricity transformation. As stated before the more voltage you drop with the transformer, the more amperage you gain out of the equasion, and the more you ramp up the voltage with the transformer, the less amperage you get. And a small car battery for say, a honda civic, peaks out at around 425 amps at 12v, so if i can get 380A from a 7.2v battery that has 4.2A, then how much amperage do you think u can get out of a car battery? And the turbo on the wiki page has a custom ESC purpose built for car applications. So this not only makes the hybrid turbo plausible, but also a fact, as the concept has already been registered and a few people are already putting those on cars in europe, and the mass production is also coming in a near future. So next time, please take the time to read up a bit before saying this is impossible and stupid, especially when the link is right in your face...

 

wow, someone's in a trolling mood this morning. lol.

I read the link but honestly, I dont believe the technology is there. I dont believe everything I read online. Call me when one of these has lasted 100000 miles in real world conditions, then I might be interested.

And I still want to to be clutched.

I have nothing more to add to my opinion.

 

Well now that it's off my chest, to answer the original question of this post, I think it's the best way of charging the engine yet, but it's not perfect. The electric motor having massive acceleration, this eliminates turbo lag which makes it very responsive and won't make the car twitchy when the boost hits, since it will already have given a steady stream of boost from the low RPM range. And having a generator on the other end plugged into the exhaust that turns on and off as needed to recharge what the compressor took out to produce boost makes this setup very efficient in every way as it uses everything it can to produce power at the less cost possible for the engine, and with less loss than just and electric turbine for example. Also having the compressor and turbine switchable on and off, you eliminate the need for waste gates and blowoff valves as u can simply stop driving them to reduce resistance, and could even reverse the motor to let air out and eliminate the backpressure. But there are still a few downsides though, as a normal old school turbo has more power potential than this hybrid unit. As the hybrid unit will stop increasing boost once it reaches full speed, but the old school turbo has no real limit other than what the engine can exhaust, the size and volume of the intake system, and the fact that at a certain point, either the engine or the turbo will physically fail in some way. But if the engine and the turbo were practically indestructible, then there would be almost no end to the power you can dish out, since the turbo uses the exhaust to turn the compressor wheel to let more air in the engine. More air in the engine means more power and more exhaust, and in turn, more exhaust means more air from the compressor, and more air means more exhaust, and so forth. So if there were no waste gates to limit the exhaust going to the turbo, the boost would practically never stop until something gives. So that's why the old school turbo has and always will have more power potential than anything else as far as air charging is concerned. So for everyday daily driving, the hybrid turbo is the way to go, but as far as racing and extreme power are concerned, then the old school turbo is what you need.

 

not a big problem, seal the electronics just like the R/C boats on the market so that the elements don't get in, and have the radiator fan or another fan cool off the unit and it will last as long as the bearings will on the motor. And i'm guessing you didn't know this yet but most heavy duty industrial electric motors are brushless and have already done more mileage in their life than most cars have. So you're entitled to your opinion and i won't force you to change it, but i sure as heck will be there to say i told you so in a few years.:P lol

 

do you use those amazing interpersonal skills in real life or just on the internet?