Fully Bolted E85 Tune
Fully Bolted E85 Tune
All Trifecta & HP tuners.
Are any of you guys able to tune the LNF to be able to handle Full E-85, without cutting out at higher RPM's/Speed.
I had a Trifecta E85 Tune that cuts out at about 6K or so in 4th, at about 23/24 psi.
Just wondering if anyone has solved this issue or if the HPFP just can't handle it.
Thanks.
Are any of you guys able to tune the LNF to be able to handle Full E-85, without cutting out at higher RPM's/Speed.
I had a Trifecta E85 Tune that cuts out at about 6K or so in 4th, at about 23/24 psi.
Just wondering if anyone has solved this issue or if the HPFP just can't handle it.
Thanks.
Senior Member
Joined: 02-09-09
Posts: 4,374
Likes: 5
From: Tejas
It's the cold temps. Denser air from the cold temp is causing an overtaxing of your fueling system (specifically your high pressure fuel pump).
In general, going with another tuner cannot fix this. This is a fueling limitation with E85. Vince and HPTuners both have unlocked the ability to have the injectors open sooner, to allow more fueling, but Vince has it unlocked to a larger degree currently, allowing for it to begin injecting a little bit earlier than what HPTuners will allow... meaning that if it's happening with Vince, then it would happen with others. Vince has been typically tuning E85 tunes at around 0.88 Lambda too, so although you could try going leaner, you're probably going to start losing power.
Solutions?:
-Lower the boost a bit
-Run it a bit leaner (may take a bit of a hit on power though)
-Go with an E85 + 93 octane mix
-Don't run E85 in the Winter
-Buy the ZZP cams that stroke the high pressure fuel pump, increasing the fueling capacity
In general, going with another tuner cannot fix this. This is a fueling limitation with E85. Vince and HPTuners both have unlocked the ability to have the injectors open sooner, to allow more fueling, but Vince has it unlocked to a larger degree currently, allowing for it to begin injecting a little bit earlier than what HPTuners will allow... meaning that if it's happening with Vince, then it would happen with others. Vince has been typically tuning E85 tunes at around 0.88 Lambda too, so although you could try going leaner, you're probably going to start losing power.
Solutions?:
-Lower the boost a bit
-Run it a bit leaner (may take a bit of a hit on power though)
-Go with an E85 + 93 octane mix
-Don't run E85 in the Winter
-Buy the ZZP cams that stroke the high pressure fuel pump, increasing the fueling capacity
Senior Member
Joined: 07-12-08
Posts: 605
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From: Houston, TX
You will need the cam lobe to run it reliably on 100%E85. I was able to get my own personal car to run 100% but it took a upgraded intank fuel pump "that may or may not have helped", Meth injection "i believe it is a 8gph nozzle", and limiting the boost spike to about 23psi. I ran a .89 lambda and made a few adjustments in my tune to the fuel pressure and the way PE came in. Injection timing helped but not as much as i thought it would.
Senior Member
Joined: 02-09-09
Posts: 4,374
Likes: 5
From: Tejas
Yeah, like others have stated, many have decided to go the E85 mix route. If you do the 50/50 mix of E85 and 93 octane, then they just call it E47. E85 has a high enough octane that you can advance spark timing to the point of losing power before you get to the point of knock, so you can mix it (E47) and still reap most of the benefits of E85 over "plain" 93 octane.
The main disadvantage obviously is the fact that you have to make sure to put equal amounts of E85 and 93 in your tank each time you fill up.
The main disadvantage obviously is the fact that you have to make sure to put equal amounts of E85 and 93 in your tank each time you fill up.
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Joined: 04-12-09
Posts: 4,869
Likes: 16
From: Connecticut
Yeah, like others have stated, many have decided to go the E85 mix route. If you do the 50/50 mix of E85 and 93 octane, then they just call it E47. E85 has a high enough octane that you can advance spark timing to the point of losing power before you get to the point of knock, so you can mix it (E47) and still reap most of the benefits of E85 over "plain" 93 octane.
The main disadvantage obviously is the fact that you have to make sure to put equal amounts of E85 and 93 in your tank each time you fill up.
The main disadvantage obviously is the fact that you have to make sure to put equal amounts of E85 and 93 in your tank each time you fill up.
I'm going to repost something that I posted last year about ethanol mixes and how going beyond a e50 mix is basically pointless aside from the ease of not having to mix.
It might be a little more helpful to actually post some info for folks to see.
Click on the graph below. It is interesting to note that the blending response of RON and MON as a function of ethanol content is highly nonlinear. There is a substantial octane improvement between RG and E10, and between E10 and E50. However, between E50 and E85 there is very little difference in either RON or MON. So basically the perfomance gains from an E50 blend to an E85 blend is very very minimal and almost not worth the headache for fueling concerns. I highlighted the compared octane numbers in gray in the graph. Notice the R+M/2 rating. E50 is only .2 octane lower than E85.... hmmmm
Keep in mind with this graph that RG=regular gas 87 octane no ethanol, HO=91 high octane no ethnnol, E10=90% 91 octane/10% ethanol blend, E50=50% 91 octane/50% ethanol mix, E85=15% 91 octane/85% ethanol blend.
Also for those that may or may not know, RON stands for Research Octane Number (widely used in Europe, octane ratings tend to be high because the tests simulate fuel performance under low severity engine operation), MON stands for Motor Octane Number (rarely used outside of a chem lab, and octane ratings tend to be much lower than RON because the tests simulate a more severe operation that might be incurred at high speed or high load), and finally R+M/2 which of course is literally RON+MON/2 which is used in the US and Canada as a standard for rating octane in a fuel.
Click on the graph below. It is interesting to note that the blending response of RON and MON as a function of ethanol content is highly nonlinear. There is a substantial octane improvement between RG and E10, and between E10 and E50. However, between E50 and E85 there is very little difference in either RON or MON. So basically the perfomance gains from an E50 blend to an E85 blend is very very minimal and almost not worth the headache for fueling concerns. I highlighted the compared octane numbers in gray in the graph. Notice the R+M/2 rating. E50 is only .2 octane lower than E85.... hmmmm
Keep in mind with this graph that RG=regular gas 87 octane no ethanol, HO=91 high octane no ethnnol, E10=90% 91 octane/10% ethanol blend, E50=50% 91 octane/50% ethanol mix, E85=15% 91 octane/85% ethanol blend.
Also for those that may or may not know, RON stands for Research Octane Number (widely used in Europe, octane ratings tend to be high because the tests simulate fuel performance under low severity engine operation), MON stands for Motor Octane Number (rarely used outside of a chem lab, and octane ratings tend to be much lower than RON because the tests simulate a more severe operation that might be incurred at high speed or high load), and finally R+M/2 which of course is literally RON+MON/2 which is used in the US and Canada as a standard for rating octane in a fuel.
Stick with the E47 blend unless you want to upgrade the cam or add a 5th injector. The HPFP won't keep up above ~65% E depending on how hard you hit in the midrange. I refuse to limit torque to run full E85, seems pointless to me to back off a tune for the convenience.
It isn't that hard to put in 5 gals of 93 with 5 gals of E85 when you get down to 1/4 tank.
It isn't that hard to put in 5 gals of 93 with 5 gals of E85 when you get down to 1/4 tank.
wow I just found an E85 station right next to my work... Seriously considering E85 (E45 blend). Anyone wanna tune me for E85? lol. I think Im going to get a gas container and hold the stuff, put the E85 tune on my spare PCM with Hptuners
im one of the lucky ones i guess ...i run full 100% e85 with no problems whatsoever...cold mornings ill get a misfire code but it goes away when it warms up 
i get around 24/gallon which is pretty decent too
i get around 24/gallon which is pretty decent too
What are you basing your mpg off of? If you're using the DIC read out, your fuel mileage is wrong. If you did the math by filling it up and then driving it to empty then that would be accurate and not too shabby.
i did the trip meter....16 gallons got me 356.3 miles( went till gas light came on) and thats 22 mpg....probably coulda gone another what 5-10 miles if i wanted to go to complete empty but i wasnt gonna try that
Wow, not much higher than I am. I see you are Trifecta tuned. That may be why you're doing well with it. I think Vince likes to keep things safe and conservative. (Not to sound like a jerk, just saying...)
Nice work man.
Nice work man.
Senior Member
Joined: 05-30-11
Posts: 544
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From: Cheyenne, WY
Eh... I'm confused... do you have a bigger gas tank than me? Because when mine is dead empty (gas light on, then driven 40 miles still, and it almost died on the way to the gas station) I only got 12.5 gallons in it. Pretty sure my car has a 12.9 gallon tank or something like that.
