Gm Stage Kit + Some Supporting Mods, Bad Idea
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From: Toronto. Canadia
Stop spreading misinformation. A limited slip diff will work whenever one tire spins.
In corners in a straight line whenever, your differential cant tell if the wheels are turned or not, its a mechanical piece not electronic, one side of the diff starts to spin more than the other it locks up so power is delivered to BOTH wheels.
What possible information do you have to support your claim?
Go to www.howstuffworks.com and read up on some basic mechanics.
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Joined: 08-28-08
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From: Sunshine State
The name of this thread is" Gm Stage Kit + Some Supporting Mods, Bad Idea". NOT "I know what LSD is and you don't". But along with the How Stuff Works link this quote from Wikipedia might help end the argument.
Benefits
"The main advantage of a limited slip differential is shown by considering the case of a standard (or "open") differential where one wheel has no contact with the ground at all. In such a case, the contacting wheel will remain stationary, and the non-contacting wheel will rotate freely—the torque transmitted will be equal at both wheels, but will not exceed the threshold of torque needed to move the vehicle, and thus the vehicle will remain stationary. In everyday use on typical roads, such a situation is very unlikely, and so a normal differential suffices. For more demanding use, such as driving in mud, off-road, or for high performance vehicles, such a state of affairs is undesirable, and the LSD can be employed to deal with it. By limiting the angular velocity difference between a pair of driven wheels, useful torque can be transmitted as long as there is some traction available on at least one of the wheels."
You have to study the example but it does describe the function of a LSD. FYI. We have in our Cobalts a TORSEN Type LSD which is all gear. One of the better types of LSD. It's the same type that was used in the early 90s in the Olds Quad 4 cars with W41 package. There were only a handful made. Most found their way into , I believe it was SCCA, road racing. It was too expensive for the masses. So we got the GOOD STUFF.
Now let's get back on topic.
Benefits
"The main advantage of a limited slip differential is shown by considering the case of a standard (or "open") differential where one wheel has no contact with the ground at all. In such a case, the contacting wheel will remain stationary, and the non-contacting wheel will rotate freely—the torque transmitted will be equal at both wheels, but will not exceed the threshold of torque needed to move the vehicle, and thus the vehicle will remain stationary. In everyday use on typical roads, such a situation is very unlikely, and so a normal differential suffices. For more demanding use, such as driving in mud, off-road, or for high performance vehicles, such a state of affairs is undesirable, and the LSD can be employed to deal with it. By limiting the angular velocity difference between a pair of driven wheels, useful torque can be transmitted as long as there is some traction available on at least one of the wheels."
You have to study the example but it does describe the function of a LSD. FYI. We have in our Cobalts a TORSEN Type LSD which is all gear. One of the better types of LSD. It's the same type that was used in the early 90s in the Olds Quad 4 cars with W41 package. There were only a handful made. Most found their way into , I believe it was SCCA, road racing. It was too expensive for the masses. So we got the GOOD STUFF.
Now let's get back on topic.
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Joined: 08-02-08
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From: Alabama
You have no idea how the hell an LSD works.
Stop spreading misinformation. A limited slip diff will work whenever one tire spins.
In corners in a straight line whenever, your differential cant tell if the wheels are turned or not, its a mechanical piece not electronic, one side of the diff starts to spin more than the other it locks up so power is delivered to BOTH wheels.
What possible information do you have to support your claim?
Go to www.howstuffworks.com and read up on some basic mechanics.
Stop spreading misinformation. A limited slip diff will work whenever one tire spins.
In corners in a straight line whenever, your differential cant tell if the wheels are turned or not, its a mechanical piece not electronic, one side of the diff starts to spin more than the other it locks up so power is delivered to BOTH wheels.
What possible information do you have to support your claim?
Go to www.howstuffworks.com and read up on some basic mechanics.
when you accelerate in straight line, BOTH wheels pull exactly the same with our drivetrain with or WITHOUT a LSD, and in the straight line, its useless, you sir have no idea what a LSD does... when you spin drag racing BOTH tires spin, so the LSD does nothing basically the LSD allows one tire to play "catch up" if it breaks loose cornering
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From: Sunshine State
I know exactly how an LSD works, when cornering hard in a FWD without a LSD, the inside tire will start spinning uncontrollably, when you have a LSD, it detects the spinning and prevents it from happening
when you accelerate in straight line, BOTH wheels pull exactly the same with our drivetrain with or WITHOUT a LSD, and in the straight line, its useless, you sir have no idea what a LSD does... when you spin drag racing BOTH tires spin, so the LSD does nothing basically the LSD allows one tire to play "catch up" if it breaks loose cornering
when you accelerate in straight line, BOTH wheels pull exactly the same with our drivetrain with or WITHOUT a LSD, and in the straight line, its useless, you sir have no idea what a LSD does... when you spin drag racing BOTH tires spin, so the LSD does nothing basically the LSD allows one tire to play "catch up" if it breaks loose cornering
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From: Sunshine State
Originally Posted by 08inBama
I know exactly how an LSD works, when cornering hard in a FWD without a LSD, the inside tire will start spinning uncontrollably, when you have a LSD, it detects the spinning and prevents it from happening
when you accelerate in straight line, BOTH wheels pull exactly the same with our drivetrain with or WITHOUT a LSD, and in the straight line, its useless, you sir have no idea what a LSD does... when you spin drag racing BOTH tires spin, so the LSD does nothing basically the LSD allows one tire to play "catch up" if it breaks loose cornering
================================================== ================
Read what you just wrote. "BOTH wheels spin exactly the same" and "drag racing BOTH tires spin". You're very observant. Isn't it just a possibility that the reason these two things happen is BECAUSE there is a LSD on the car? The simple description of how a LSD works is it delivers the most power to the wheel with the most traction. Do you think you are smarter than the people that wrote the definitions of LSD for Wikipedia and "How it works" are all wrong and you're all right? I think not my friend. It's no wonder you've been fighting a losing battle all these years.
Happy trails.
I know exactly how an LSD works, when cornering hard in a FWD without a LSD, the inside tire will start spinning uncontrollably, when you have a LSD, it detects the spinning and prevents it from happening
when you accelerate in straight line, BOTH wheels pull exactly the same with our drivetrain with or WITHOUT a LSD, and in the straight line, its useless, you sir have no idea what a LSD does... when you spin drag racing BOTH tires spin, so the LSD does nothing basically the LSD allows one tire to play "catch up" if it breaks loose cornering
================================================== ================
Read what you just wrote. "BOTH wheels spin exactly the same" and "drag racing BOTH tires spin". You're very observant. Isn't it just a possibility that the reason these two things happen is BECAUSE there is a LSD on the car? The simple description of how a LSD works is it delivers the most power to the wheel with the most traction. Do you think you are smarter than the people that wrote the definitions of LSD for Wikipedia and "How it works" are all wrong and you're all right? I think not my friend. It's no wonder you've been fighting a losing battle all these years.
Happy trails.
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From: Alabama
once again, the LSD becomes active when one tire slips, its called a limited SLIP differential... it does absolutely nothing when both tires spin
once again, the Cobalts wihtout a LSD do not have a single trac drivetrain, both tires pull equally when launching the car, when spinning occurs, both tires spin equally... cornering is where the tires slip and that is where your LSD kicks in
Has anyone here ever taken a fwd car without a LSD around a curve without a LSD? now do the same in a FWD with a LSD, you will quickly learn why one is needed, and don't have to have wikipedia as your source...
and on that same note anyone ever seen a Srt-4 or Cobalt SS without a LSD launch on a drag strip? they don't pirate leg and once again, wikipedia isn't needed
that is the problem with car forums people spend more time reading, than in the real ******* world
what is sad is I have a LSD and still thinks its pointless, I really didn't care if my car had one or not, as I know I will never probably actually even use the damn thing
once again, the Cobalts wihtout a LSD do not have a single trac drivetrain, both tires pull equally when launching the car, when spinning occurs, both tires spin equally... cornering is where the tires slip and that is where your LSD kicks in
Has anyone here ever taken a fwd car without a LSD around a curve without a LSD? now do the same in a FWD with a LSD, you will quickly learn why one is needed, and don't have to have wikipedia as your source...
and on that same note anyone ever seen a Srt-4 or Cobalt SS without a LSD launch on a drag strip? they don't pirate leg and once again, wikipedia isn't needed
that is the problem with car forums people spend more time reading, than in the real ******* world
what is sad is I have a LSD and still thinks its pointless, I really didn't care if my car had one or not, as I know I will never probably actually even use the damn thing
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From: Toronto. Canadia
once again, the LSD becomes active when one tire slips, its called a limited SLIP differential... it does absolutely nothing when both tires spin
once again, the Cobalts wihtout a LSD do not have a single trac drivetrain, both tires pull equally when launching the car, when spinning occurs, both tires spin equally... cornering is where the tires slip and that is where your LSD kicks in
Has anyone here ever taken a fwd car without a LSD around a curve without a LSD? now do the same in a FWD with a LSD, you will quickly learn why one is needed, and don't have to have wikipedia as your source...
and on that same note anyone ever seen a Srt-4 or Cobalt SS without a LSD launch on a drag strip? they don't pirate leg and once again, wikipedia isn't needed
that is the problem with car forums people spend more time reading, than in the real ******* world
what is sad is I have a LSD and still thinks its pointless, I really didn't care if my car had one or not, as I know I will never probably actually even use the damn thing
once again, the Cobalts wihtout a LSD do not have a single trac drivetrain, both tires pull equally when launching the car, when spinning occurs, both tires spin equally... cornering is where the tires slip and that is where your LSD kicks in
Has anyone here ever taken a fwd car without a LSD around a curve without a LSD? now do the same in a FWD with a LSD, you will quickly learn why one is needed, and don't have to have wikipedia as your source...
and on that same note anyone ever seen a Srt-4 or Cobalt SS without a LSD launch on a drag strip? they don't pirate leg and once again, wikipedia isn't needed
that is the problem with car forums people spend more time reading, than in the real ******* world
what is sad is I have a LSD and still thinks its pointless, I really didn't care if my car had one or not, as I know I will never probably actually even use the damn thing
I dont know if you are being serious or not.
I sure hope not though.
Haha, because you are so wrong.
By that logic, every single person who uses a limited slip or locking differential for drag racing has wasted their money.
Power on an open diff follows the path of least resistance. When you are cornering this path is going to be the inside tire, when you are on a drag strip it is whichever wheel starts spinning first.
If you REALLY dont believe me there is a very simple way to test this out yourself.
Go find a honda civic or a base cobalt or some other non performance FWD or RWD car and get them to do a burnout in a straight line. Note the tire marks left on the pavement. If your car has an LSD do the same in your car and look at the marks left on the pavement.
This should be all the proof you need.
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From: Sunshine State
I dont know if you are being serious or not.
I sure hope not though.
Haha, because you are so wrong.
By that logic, every single person who uses a limited slip or locking differential for drag racing has wasted their money.
Power on an open diff follows the path of least resistance. When you are cornering this path is going to be the inside tire, when you are on a drag strip it is whichever wheel starts spinning first.
If you REALLY dont believe me there is a very simple way to test this out yourself.
Go find a honda civic or a base cobalt or some other non performance FWD or RWD car and get them to do a burnout in a straight line. Note the tire marks left on the pavement. If your car has an LSD do the same in your car and look at the marks left on the pavement.
This should be all the proof you need.
I sure hope not though.
Haha, because you are so wrong.
By that logic, every single person who uses a limited slip or locking differential for drag racing has wasted their money.
Power on an open diff follows the path of least resistance. When you are cornering this path is going to be the inside tire, when you are on a drag strip it is whichever wheel starts spinning first.
If you REALLY dont believe me there is a very simple way to test this out yourself.
Go find a honda civic or a base cobalt or some other non performance FWD or RWD car and get them to do a burnout in a straight line. Note the tire marks left on the pavement. If your car has an LSD do the same in your car and look at the marks left on the pavement.
This should be all the proof you need.
Happy trails.
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Joined: 03-05-09
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From: Des Moines, IA
FWIW, this is my first direct injected car I've owned and these are just my experiences driving the car for a month now.
If the RPD is trustworthly, I see my car in the high 12's - mid 13's AFR all the time under power. I've even seen it into the upper 13's on the RPD. I'll see it pretty lean right at tip-in when the car is making 15~ psi and then go even leaner towards redline! These are AFR's that make someone who's owned non-DI turbocharged cars **** a brick. What makes it even more interesting is I'm running 88-89 octane and I've never seen any knock retard.
If I tried this on my MR2, I'd need a broom to pick up all the pieces.
The advantages DI bring to the table are numerous, and I think most previous experience must be thrown out the window. I'm trying to rethink how I view 4 cylinder performance tuning now, and frankly I like this.
Besides the DI, I'm sure these cars also have a better cylinder head than previous SS's which always helps.
If the RPD is trustworthly, I see my car in the high 12's - mid 13's AFR all the time under power. I've even seen it into the upper 13's on the RPD. I'll see it pretty lean right at tip-in when the car is making 15~ psi and then go even leaner towards redline! These are AFR's that make someone who's owned non-DI turbocharged cars **** a brick. What makes it even more interesting is I'm running 88-89 octane and I've never seen any knock retard.
If I tried this on my MR2, I'd need a broom to pick up all the pieces.
The advantages DI bring to the table are numerous, and I think most previous experience must be thrown out the window. I'm trying to rethink how I view 4 cylinder performance tuning now, and frankly I like this.
Besides the DI, I'm sure these cars also have a better cylinder head than previous SS's which always helps.
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From: Alabama
you guys do realize the fastest LNF stock here is Slowstang, who does not have a LSD, right?
just going to throw that out there, LSD doesn't do **** drag racing, never will
the reason people get LSDs drag racing is their open differential does NOT lock under acceleration, so they pirate leg off the start, most newer cars(FWD) don't do this, which I have already mentioned, and guess what, our cars don't do that, with or without a LSD.. if you have any power whatsoever and RWD, you have to have one, as your rear end fishtails a little on the launch, causing uneven traction issues
and we've already beaten this dead horse here:
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/show...&highlight=LSD
read through that and as pointed out, as long as there is equal traction(aka drag racing), a LSD isn't going to do **** on these cars
LSD + fishtailing backend + RWD + drag racing=needed
LSD + FWD + drag racing=not needed
just going to throw that out there, LSD doesn't do **** drag racing, never will
the reason people get LSDs drag racing is their open differential does NOT lock under acceleration, so they pirate leg off the start, most newer cars(FWD) don't do this, which I have already mentioned, and guess what, our cars don't do that, with or without a LSD.. if you have any power whatsoever and RWD, you have to have one, as your rear end fishtails a little on the launch, causing uneven traction issues
and we've already beaten this dead horse here:
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/show...&highlight=LSD
read through that and as pointed out, as long as there is equal traction(aka drag racing), a LSD isn't going to do **** on these cars
LSD + fishtailing backend + RWD + drag racing=needed
LSD + FWD + drag racing=not needed
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From: "Central", PA
It's been my experience that anything worth having fixed under warranty won't break until the warranty is up. And anything that will break while the car is under warranty that is worth having fixed isn't covered anyway.
So, let me save you mind-numbing decision-making..........
just mod the damn thing.
And if your warranty is really that much more important to you than going faster.......
you shouldn't be modding in the first place, no matter how simple the mod, because inevitabley something will go wrong with the install.
I can't tell you how many CEL lights I've thrown, I've been rich, lean, I've had exhaust leaks and vacuum leaks, a slipping clutch, and no traction. It's a vicious cycle. You'll need to mod so that you can mod. More power means better traction is needed, better clutch, etc. You get the idea.
Simply, you're either in it all the way or just stay out of it. This is why the best option is to NOT mod your daily driver. Get a project and be done with it. Once the balt is paid off that's what I'm doing.
/end thread.
So, let me save you mind-numbing decision-making..........
just mod the damn thing.
And if your warranty is really that much more important to you than going faster.......
you shouldn't be modding in the first place, no matter how simple the mod, because inevitabley something will go wrong with the install.
I can't tell you how many CEL lights I've thrown, I've been rich, lean, I've had exhaust leaks and vacuum leaks, a slipping clutch, and no traction. It's a vicious cycle. You'll need to mod so that you can mod. More power means better traction is needed, better clutch, etc. You get the idea.
Simply, you're either in it all the way or just stay out of it. This is why the best option is to NOT mod your daily driver. Get a project and be done with it. Once the balt is paid off that's what I'm doing.
/end thread.
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Joined: 03-26-08
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From: Somewhere, MI
Open diffs always apply the same amount of torque to each wheel, but that doesn't mean they both spin at the same speed. There is always a difference in potential friction maximum between 2 sides of a car due to weight and engine rotation direction. When one tire slips because it has less traction, it will have the same torque on it. Same torque, less force opposing the torque = higher angular acceleration = one can spin while the other doesn't.
Its called a peg leg burn out and cars w/ open diffs do them all the time.
ORRRRRRR get the GM stage kit, retain warranty, and continue on your merry way with a few more horses free.
Last edited by krispy; Mar 24, 2009 at 04:13 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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From: Sunshine State
Maybe he'll learn by example. As you'll see in my sig I have built a rather unusual car. A 350hp+ LS1 powered Fiero. When I finished building it I, of course, was anxious to try it out. First time I let the clutch out I damn near burned ONE tire off the wheel. I quickly realized I needed a LSD if I wanted to put that power to the ground. Enter Bud at GR8GRIP in Tuscon, AZ. He built me a LSD which I installed. New problem. I broke TWO axles. Both times on the same side. The custom axles from The Drive Shaft Shop cost me an arm but I haven't broken any more axles and there's TWO black lines out behind me now. The stock axles were made to go behing 165 hp. The new ones behind 900+ hp. So believe what you want. You're wrong.
Happy trails.
Happy trails.
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From: Toronto. Canadia
man you really need to figure out how to concede a point.
go ask ralliartist, if his LSD is useful or any other guys who actually have some real drag experience in their front wheel drive cars.
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From: Sunshine State
Happy trails.
I just haven't got any more time for this idiot.
Good night.
Last edited by buellfooll; Mar 24, 2009 at 11:28 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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From: East Windsor, NJ & Scranton, PA
I get the sense he is not going to give up on this one.
I would also like to add that not only is LSD considered crucial for any sort of track racing, the world of drag racing for AWD, RWD and FWD cars has been utilizing it since before almost any member on this site has been born. Any serious drag or road racer (or anybody who understands automotive physics) will agree that the LSD is an invaluble tool for achieving the most performance.
Even hard core drag racers may put a spool (My Mustang has one) in their car which is done to basically amplify the effect of an LSD to the max by making the diff a solid piece.
If you never push your car any harder then basic driving, then it wouldnt matter. If you ever want to push your car harder then basic driving though, you are going to be happy you have one.
I would also like to add that not only is LSD considered crucial for any sort of track racing, the world of drag racing for AWD, RWD and FWD cars has been utilizing it since before almost any member on this site has been born. Any serious drag or road racer (or anybody who understands automotive physics) will agree that the LSD is an invaluble tool for achieving the most performance.
Even hard core drag racers may put a spool (My Mustang has one) in their car which is done to basically amplify the effect of an LSD to the max by making the diff a solid piece.
Originally Posted by 08inBama
what is sad is I have a LSD and still thinks its pointless, I really didn't care if my car had one or not, as I know I will never probably actually even use the damn thing
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From: Shelton, Wa
On A/F ratios... While stoich is technically 14.7:1, max power is considerably richer than that. Somewhere in the area of 12.5-13:1.
As for a torsen-type LSD. There's no "detecting" of wheel slippage at all involved... The gears involved are worm-cut gears. They're designed to be highly efficient at allowing one wheel to turn slower than diff speed and severely inefficient at allowing either wheel to turn faster than diff speed. Summary: inside wheel in a turn slowing down=no problem. Wheel losing traction by whatever means=gears difficult to turn=diff "lockup"=both wheels turning at or about diff speed.
As for a torsen-type LSD. There's no "detecting" of wheel slippage at all involved... The gears involved are worm-cut gears. They're designed to be highly efficient at allowing one wheel to turn slower than diff speed and severely inefficient at allowing either wheel to turn faster than diff speed. Summary: inside wheel in a turn slowing down=no problem. Wheel losing traction by whatever means=gears difficult to turn=diff "lockup"=both wheels turning at or about diff speed.
Last edited by TLWiltman; Mar 25, 2009 at 02:17 AM. Reason: poor spelling. Fuck I'm tired!
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From: Victoria Canada
1.)ok, i know the gm tune comes with an intake tube, not the typical intake we all think of, i knew that.
2.) the balt ss/tc runs rich stock? what? have you ever taken a whiff of the exhaust AFTER it has warmed up, not cold, because just about every car runs rich cold, that exhaust smells more like donuts than gas!! i start my bslt ss/tc in a very small enclosed garage and i can't smell a whiff of uncombusted gas! you sure about it runninbg rich stock? i had an sti that ran pig rich from my tuner and the whole garage would reak like gas after 2 minutes!! and just because it can read higher boost better, does that mean that the stock turbo and motor can take more boost from further mods?
3.)ok, the gm tune allows the ecu to learn a bit better, and maybe just a/f ratios? what about about the other stuff it will have to learn? and YOU STILL ARE TAKING A CHANCE WITH THE ECU RELEARNING ON IT OWN, you can't deny that.
4.) again, how wide is that buffer zone, we would need objective parameters, talk to any tuner about that., its important
5.) and everyone knows darn welll that a dealer can make any connection to other failed systems due to a mod, forget about that magnusson act that everyone quotes, you will have to take that to court and you will lose. these engineers are very smart and know the crap we do to our cars
so now people will just say, ok, if u get the gm tune and do more mods after that, well just go to a custom dyno tuner and get it re-tuned if u want to be %100 safe, well there goes ur investment in the gm tune, changed by dyno tuner and lost forever!! or just get the gm tune and mod after that and DON'T GO TO A DYNO TUNER TO RE-TUNE, drive around for awhile not knowing whats going on and hoping and wondering if your ecu is keeping up and learning and keep hoping and driving, then one day, you start knocking and hesitating like crazy on the top end, your boost creeping/spiking, running very lean , heat soaking.
ok, go in your garage, jack the car up with your custom garage lift, take everyhting off, put stock stuff back on, 14 hours later go to chevy and pray they don't know what's up!!?? so that's the choices?
2.) the balt ss/tc runs rich stock? what? have you ever taken a whiff of the exhaust AFTER it has warmed up, not cold, because just about every car runs rich cold, that exhaust smells more like donuts than gas!! i start my bslt ss/tc in a very small enclosed garage and i can't smell a whiff of uncombusted gas! you sure about it runninbg rich stock? i had an sti that ran pig rich from my tuner and the whole garage would reak like gas after 2 minutes!! and just because it can read higher boost better, does that mean that the stock turbo and motor can take more boost from further mods?
3.)ok, the gm tune allows the ecu to learn a bit better, and maybe just a/f ratios? what about about the other stuff it will have to learn? and YOU STILL ARE TAKING A CHANCE WITH THE ECU RELEARNING ON IT OWN, you can't deny that.
4.) again, how wide is that buffer zone, we would need objective parameters, talk to any tuner about that., its important
5.) and everyone knows darn welll that a dealer can make any connection to other failed systems due to a mod, forget about that magnusson act that everyone quotes, you will have to take that to court and you will lose. these engineers are very smart and know the crap we do to our cars
so now people will just say, ok, if u get the gm tune and do more mods after that, well just go to a custom dyno tuner and get it re-tuned if u want to be %100 safe, well there goes ur investment in the gm tune, changed by dyno tuner and lost forever!! or just get the gm tune and mod after that and DON'T GO TO A DYNO TUNER TO RE-TUNE, drive around for awhile not knowing whats going on and hoping and wondering if your ecu is keeping up and learning and keep hoping and driving, then one day, you start knocking and hesitating like crazy on the top end, your boost creeping/spiking, running very lean , heat soaking.
ok, go in your garage, jack the car up with your custom garage lift, take everyhting off, put stock stuff back on, 14 hours later go to chevy and pray they don't know what's up!!?? so that's the choices?
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Joined: 02-24-09
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From: Shelton, Wa
EDIT: The soot is unburned hydrocarbon. While HC emissions (amount of unburned fuel) IS fairly low, The HC particles are able to coagulate due to lower combustion temps. These larger particulates then travel down the exhaust tract as soot. Soot is inherent in any direct injected engine (Includes diesels).
Last edited by TLWiltman; Mar 25, 2009 at 06:19 AM. Reason: After some research:
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From: Tejas
The soot is unburned hydrocarbon. While HC emissions (amount of unburned fuel) IS fairly low, The HC particles are able to coagulate due to lower combustion temps. These larger particulates then travel down the exhaust tract as soot. Soot is inherent in any direct injected engine (Includes diesels).
Good info.
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Joined: 12-31-08
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From: Burlington,New Jersey
im thinking of getting the stage kit and going with the dejon intake...that shouldn't cause andy issues should it? i know its probably in this thread somewhere but i dont feel like reading right now
