LNFwagonSS

No need to measure, I use micrometers often. I understand One hundredth of a inch isn't much. Also u don't need to defend your point to me, tell it to CED. They are the ones standing behind that info.

blueLNFftw

iTrader: (16)

Like I said, it is because they are a dealership. The warranty only covers the parts if it is installed by them and their way.

exninja

iTrader: (1)

This is where I'm not following. If you move the mating surface away from the TOB, if anything you're moving the springs towards the TOB. Pushing in on the springs moves the clutch outwards or towards the TOB. I don't see how you could shim anything.

It's totally moot. You hardly remove anything.

exninja

iTrader: (1)

The warranty part from CED is true, but I don't think they've said anything about TOB overextension. I think that's a myth perpetuated on the internets...

LNFwagonSS

I don't doubt this may be the reasoning.

Pushing in on the pressure plate springs only moves the pressure plate disc so clutch disc can rotate separately from pressure plate/flywheel. The pressure plate body has no lateral movement when installed, just the pressure plates disc. So if you machine the step then pressure plate body will mount further away from TOB which means the TOB will have to travel .010"(or whatever it is) further to disengage the clutch.
Yes the info CED provides for the LSJ clutch upgrade has a whole 2-3 pages of info about TOB over extention.

blueLNFftw

iTrader: (16)

See how when you push the clutch pedal down in the car the TOB pushed out to engage the fingers of the pressure plate? This releases the clutch disc from the flywheel.



If you remove material from the flywheel it moves the pressure plate that much further from the TOB since the TOB is bolted to the transmission and the pressure plate is bolted to the flywheel. BUT the material you remove in resurfacing that it will not make a difference in operation UNLESS the shop takes off too much material.

LNFwagonSS

Which is a variable that is uncontrollable by the manufacturer of the TOB. So their reasoning for recommending a new flywheel is 100% justified.

blueLNFftw

iTrader: (16)

Either way, the whole point is that the flywheel IS serviceable and that, when done right, is not an issue. at all.

exninja

iTrader: (1)

I guess the part that I was missing is that they would remove material from where the pressure plate mounts to the flywheel. Didn't know they did that.

Now I see the one sentence where CED mentions the cutting of the flywheel.

Mine works great. Guess I'm lucky [/s]

blueLNFftw

iTrader: (16)

I said that a while ago lol.
You remove material from both steps.

exninja

iTrader: (1)

step didn't translate till now

blueLNFftw

iTrader: (16)

Ah, okay. Im sorry.

exninja

iTrader: (1)

LNFwagonSS

I never said it wasn't. Again, I just relayied the information provided on CED website.

Still, I will ALWAYS recommend a new flywheel to someone looking to replace the clutch as you don't know if the flywheel will be serviced correctly when resurfaced. And if it ends up being resurfaced incorrectly, then you will have to tear the car apart alllll over agian. Even worse would be if you were paying to have it done, then you may have to pay to have the clutch done AGAIN.
So, I revert back to my second post in this thread. It's not worth the risk.

If you know exactly how much material needs to be removed and you are confident it will get resurfaced correctly, that's completely different but I bet 90% of the member here don't have a clue.

mrbelvedere

iTrader: (3)

the gmpp clutch is a stock lnf clutch which is a **** ton better clutch then the stock lsj unit

ECaulk

iTrader: (6)

There is a material difference in one component, its close to a stock LNF. I forget what piece is different.

LNFwagonSS

Im betting the biggest difference between the stock LSJ clutch vs upgraded LSJ is the pressure plate...wSelf adjusting(LSJ) vs standard(LSJ upgrade - exactly like the lnf). The clutch disc material between the OEM LNF and LSJ upgrade clutch appears to be nearly the same. Anybody have any specific material specs on the lnf vs LSJ upgrade clutches?

CrateEngineDepot

iTrader: (5)

Just use the LNF clutch, the LNF and GMPP upgrade both use the same pressure plate. The disc is different between the two but thats not the issue.
There is no gain in using a GMPP LSJ clutch on a LNF vehicle. Everything else is explained on the site.

Terminator2

The disc is different and it seems to hold a lot better than the stock LNF disc. Friction material must be different. Tuned a few cars close to 450wrtq with it and zero slip even in 4th.

ECaulk

iTrader: (6)

Thank you for remembering what it was

blueLNFftw

iTrader: (16)

Then why is the GMPP clutch so much firmer than the stock LNF one?

LNFwagonSS

LNF


GMPP


LSJ stock

CrateEngineDepot

iTrader: (5)

The springs are different in the LNF verses the GMPP, as for the friction material I don't see any difference but this is just from a visual inpsection.

footballplaya3k

iTrader: (1)

I felt zero difference going from the LNF to GMPP.

TurboWood

This is a fun thread....it's different...it's the same...you shouldn't resurface....it's fine if you do it right...why take the risk...why waste the money...ah, the great fun of having no data.

Even the pictures of the clutches are inconclusive (other than LSJ being clearly different). The springs on the GMPP are a different color, but of course that doesn't prove anything and the two (LNF and GMPP) disks are reversed so you can't compare the structure. The pressure plates look similar, and who knows if the different color is just due to different photographers/lighting.

CED is a great supporter of this site, but even their comments are confusing. Are we to believe that having different disks is not important? The entire aftermarket world spends a lot of money trying to convince us their disk is magical and will out perform all others. In fact it's basically the only thing that is tune-able in clutch design other than the load generated by the pressure plate. It is what will largely impact coefficient of friction given the pressure plate and flywheel are steel (ignoring exotic carbon clutches). The coefficient of friction is sort of critical....just a tiny (read: really big) bit important.

and, end rant....

Daniel