Morning everyone,

Just wanted to share some info on Rocker/ lash adjuster provlem ibran into last night while working on the car. I noticed while looking at the cam gears that a rocker was missing from a spring. Next to it laying on its side was the rocker. I then check the lash adjuster and saw that it had snapped the ball on the top off. Together with a friend we then began checking how and when it happened. The engine has been running good and strong with no effect in power. We were stumped in wondering how the hell the lash adjuster had snapped there isnt much stressed placed on the adjuster so..........

Anyways, we inspected the others and no sighs of cranking on bith the rockers or lash adjusters. I remembered reading a thread once about somone's rocker failing and that there was a revision done to them in later LNF's. If thats the case i would like to order new ones. Below are some pictures from last night. Car is grounded for now in the shop.


Lash adjuster snapped at the top. Rocker was fine.

What i saw when i first took a glanced wondering where the rocker was at.




Any info regarding what could have caused it or if there is a revision will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

The Lashers are so small and dont look strong.

Sharing some more info: found these while doing some researching. They look like a great solution but at a price. For you big HP guys going for numbers un seen before, this is a option you guys might want to consider.
Jesel GM Ecotech Overhead Cam Followers

Jesel Lash Post Adjusters GM Ecotec-Ford Modular- Esslinger Lash Post Adjusters

 

Over revving without stronger valve springs causes it. If you install stronger valve springs, you will likely never have this issue again.

 

What is the part number on the black camshaft actuator? On all the cars I have seen the black one is on the exhaust side and either gray or yellow on the intake side. Just wondering, but as stated the "failure" is from over revving.

 

I think its just certain years. My engine has both black actuators and different part numbers.

 

if you would spend $3k on just rocker arms and lash adjusters, go for it.

 

Hmm, good to know.

 

Those are ZZP cams installed. I have the supertech valve spring kit but i didnt install with the cams because I was going to see what exactly the cams gave in flow/gains. Someone mentioning springs was not surprising. Springs will go in and ill get new lash adjusters.

Overing sounds about right, but the only time i can remember the engine reving highrr than normal is when im at the track rev- matching into a corner. My Rev limiter is set to 7k and even then i never pass 6200rpm.

You pay to play, we did a leakdown test on all cylinders and read 0% across the board. My buddy also used gis gooseneck camera and looked inside the cylinder, no damage and clean.

 

Can you please post part #'s and what year engine? Thanks

That way i can compare with part #'s found on zzp's website toborder new one's.

 

yeah i have an 08 and both of my actuators are black with different part numbers, but i thought zzp recommended new valvue springs with their cams anyway

 

Of the actuators? 09 engine. The new old ones are yellow and black, and new ones are gray and black.
12578515 is the intake
12621505 is the exhaust

 

lol $3k for those parts is not paying to play. its just retarded. sure if you have corporate backing or aren't paying out of pocket for them and can get some contingency pay after an event win i don't see why not. but $3k for parts to replace something that in stock form has already been taken to 1000 horsepower and 10k rpms, is beyond pointless.

 

Exsoccer, i cant agree with you more. Hope you didnt take it as that im going to buy those cause when i saw the price i also thought it was retarded. Im buying the revised STOCK lash adjuaters and cam followers.

 

oh okay. i just saw how your post was replying to responses for each paragraph

 

Did you notice any random misifres? Such as at idle or cruising? I'm getting paranoid seeing these threads lol!

 

The engine ran just fine, no noticable vibrations. I do understand now the reason for my App "Torque" showing me that #3 cylinder was missing firing while 1,2,4 were 0 count. From now ill just add that as a gauge and check every 3 months to be sure.

 

if a tune has alot of wot cam changes it is also advised to make cam changes to the cells directly to the left of the max load cam cells. if the cells @ wot are for example are a value f 10 @ 6250rpm 100% load and the decell cam cells next to it are value 1-3 6250-6000rpm 75-90% load then when you get out of a pull and lift the pedal the cam shifts positions so fast it smacks the rockers really hard and over time either breaks the lifter nose or cracks/ejects a rocker.

just extra info i thought id share.

 

As stated, over-revving causes it.. but I was told that overboosting also causes it if you don't over-rev it. Or, in some cases, both Cure is ZZP valve springs or do what I did and get the entire head with cams.. I think I read you already have cams in though.. kinda weird why you wouldn't put springs in since you already have it apart to put cams in :shrug: OH well.. you live and you learn :P The stock lash adjusters are fine, it's just the springs are too weak to hold things in place at high rpms with increased boost levels above stock. Over-revving it on top of that, just makes it break down that much quicker.

 

I got Supertech 78lb springs from ZZP as well but what I had plan to do is make a realworld comparison of what exactly these cams flowed in terms of air/ fuel with everything else being completely stock. I was then going to share that info with you all. With this though, I guess not lol. Springs are going as we speak.

Like to add yet another alternative that my good friend Sky888 found through one of his sponsors Bates Engineering: This is what he had to say:



I also would like to add that the LNF stock rockers are pretty weak. They are made out of stamped steel.

If you read the ECOTEC build book, building high horsepower vehicle, they recommend Bates Engineering Rockers. They are CAST iron.

You can see these BATES Engineering rockers on my photo for my build:


that photo was taken after I received them from being cryo-treated. For extra protection and here are the close-up photo of the BATES Engineering Rockers ...

 

1) agreed over rev is a huge contributor......
2) its more the dynamic flow from upgraded turbochargers pushing the valve open when it should be closing which causes valvetrain slap. but yes thats accurate enough.

the info i posted before was to help people be aware there is more to valvetrain failure than just valvesprings and retainers. you need to look into everything and find accumalative high damage situations and asses them for upgrading.

for ^ those are the best eco rockers on the market you will like them no doubt in my mind. with that neutral shaft kit looks like your going for 600 gonna be fun wherever it lands.

 

Thats Sky888's build which ge is going for 700whp. He has a compound turbo setup and has done his research in getting anything and everything reenforced for his engine.

 

Lol.. damn.. that's crazy but I guess it might work out since he's RWD like you are as well? I assume he's running a sky too... 700 whp on a fwd might just roast tires in all 5 gears lol.. I doubt the tranny would handle that from the factory :P It'll be an interesting build to say the least anyways.
How much the rockers run you $ wise?

 

Just giving everyone a heads up. Called Bates Engineering and ask about their Lash Adjuster, they are solid and $18 each. The Rockers are a cast steel and are $70 each. Pretty expensive but not as expensive as the Ridiculous price the Jessel company from Florida has, those guys are just insane. Race proven, yet they could not provide me with what application it was proven.

 

**** thats what my car does randomly, but on more the one. looks like ill be ripping into the motor. but how would i go about getting this under warrenty?

 

You're saying the "applied torque" input, in HPT, will show the misfires?

 

Lol, no when i dont have my HPT hooked up i use "Torque" a $5 Android app that connects to your car via bluetooth through a OBDII bluetooth reader to read every sensor your ECM see's.