You don't read very well do you. I said GM TESTS OIL not GM MAKES OIL, you may notice there is a difference.

There are engineering test standards for a reason, you can't have everyone running around, doing different tests under different conditions, and come away knowing how to compare design aspect A vs. design aspect B. You obviously don't have the slightest grasp on what real engineering and testing actually is.

Hints:
1. If you want to compare things you test them under the SAME CONDITIONS to have a direct comparison. This is what needs to be done w/ oils to determine what is actual better. You can't test one @ 200C and the other at 50C and say "well the one at 50C worked so much better, this 200C one sucks".

2. Once you have gone through these standard tests and have picked an oil/component, then you do the other battery of tests, including real world tests, to confirm that your selection was the correct one. You don't just jump out to real world uncontrolled & incomplete testing, thats not engineering, thats guess and check.

But thats pretty much changing it JUST to change it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

Thats what you think...

 

"But this is important, Honey, There's someone WRONG on the Internet!"

 

Damn I'm a glutton for punishment. Grimsta at G20.net:


First up is Royal Purple:

Royal Purple is a "boutique" oil in that it's a Group IV & Group V blend of PAO and ester base stocks. Their consumer line of motor oil is API certified to SL specifications, with the exception of the 20W-50 which is a SJ spec...their XPR racing line is not API/ILSAC certified. In addition, the 5W-20, 5W-30, and 10W-30 are rated API energy conserving. I do not recommend you use the XPR line in a street car...it lacks many of the additives you want in a daily driven machine. In this case, "racing" is not better

Royal Purple oils are more slanted toward the hi-performance/racing crowd in general and as a result, the additive pack contains less detergents and anti-oxidants than what you will see in German Castrol or Redline. Unless you do oil analysis, a 5000 mile change interval will keep the oil from degrading to the point where it's not doing it's job....IMO, a 8000 mile OCI would be safe for this oil if city driving is what you primarily do. The filter will need to be changed at the 4000 mile point for an 8K OCI.

Royal Purple's color comes from dye used in the formulation; German Castrol was green a couple of years ago (elves?) for the same reason. All oils (including syn oils) are refined clear...dye is added for marketing. Moly comes in two forms (maybe more)...inorganic MoS2 which must be in a carrier (suspension) to flow and an organic type which is soluble in oil. Royal Purple uses the organic moly as a friction modifier and actually contains less organic moly than Redline does. This type of moly will not clog up your filter.

I would like to point out something you will see on oil data sheets that's fairly common concerning viscosity:

Royal Purple 5W-30
40 deg C - 65.3 centistrokes
100 deg C - 11.0 centistrokes

Royal Purple 10W-30
40 deg C - 70.3 centistrokes
100 deg C - 10.7 centistrokes

The 5W oil is a bit thinner than the 10W at cold temps as expected, but the 5W is actually thicker than the 10W at operating temp. This is due to the friction modifiers used in the oil and illustrates another point: Oil never thickens up when hot, it always thins to the SAE viscosity spec shown in the 2nd number on the API stamp.

Auto and manual transmission oils live a much easier life than motor oil...they do not have to deal with combustion by-products. As a result, most will perform very well. Royal Purple's manual transmission oil is excellent...most syn oils of this type are. Redline is another excellent choice.

Auto tranny oil is actually hydraulic oil. The #1 killer is heat....all of them (DEXRON III spec) will perform well if you have a good cooler. Adding a transmission filter pre-cooler is also a very good idea, as is a temp gauge. Royal Purple, Redline, Castrol, and Valvoline are excellent choices.

Royal Purple 80W-90 and Redline 75W-90 LSD oils work very well in a LSD that's in good shape. Keep in mind, both contain the friction modifiers necessary for the LSD...Redline 75W-90 NS does not have the modifiers. However, if the LSD has a lot of wear, either of these syn LSD oils may cause excessive slip. In this case, the Ford 75W-90 may be a better choice...you will also need the Ford friction modifier.
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Next up is Castrol SynTec European Formula 0W-30 (aka German Castrol, it must say made in Germany on the back):

It’s API Service Category SL, SJ. It exceeds ACEA A3 requirements and meets ILSAC GF-3/GF-2 emission system capability requirements. This oil far exceeds API Service Category SF, SG requirements.

Here's the data sheet

This data sheet is provides minimum info…I’ll add a few pertinent figures:
40 deg C viscosity (from analysis): 72.9 cSt
Velocity Index (from analysis): 166
Pour Point (from Material Safety Sheet): -40 deg F
Flash Point (from Material Safety Sheet): 437 deg F
A basic volatility test revealed: a 9% loss at 4 hours and 17.5% loss at 8 hours at ~340 deg F.

Here’s an oil analysis from another user on a virgin oil sample (in PPM):

Iron..................3
Silicon...............4
Sodium............14
Potassium……....12
Moly................<5
Phosphorus…...903
Zinc.............1157
Calcium.........1941
Magnesium......770

Gas Chromatograph and Fourier Transform Infrared (FTIR) analysis revealed the base stock appears to be a blend of mostly 4 cSt PAO with either 6 cSt or 8 cSt cuts. The oil is comprised of Group IV PAO base stock (plus additives). The above analysis did not show any esters in this oil, but a different, more thorough EI and CI Mass Spectrometer analysis did reveal esters of a type not seen in other oils.

Why would I use this oil? Its very good

- German Castrol is a true synthetic oil…no Group I, II, or III base stock at all. IMO this is important for a turbo car considering the heat produced by the turbo. I did not want any problems keeping my SP61 turbo cool (it’s oil cooled only) and avoid any chance of the oil coking on engine shutdown.
- The oil flows very well cold, getting the oil up to the cams and to the bearing quickly where it’s needed the most. German Castrol is on the thick side for a 0W-30…the 40 deg C and 100 deg C (operating temp) cSt numbers confirm this.
- At engine operating temperature, this oil gives me excellent pressure at idle (10-15 psi) and at 3000 rpm (45-50 psi)
- The Viscosity Index is high, indicating that this oil will resist viscosity degradation over time. It appears to have few viscosity modifiers as additives…this means the base oil itself handles the rated viscosity range very well. It also means a higher percentage of actual oil vs additives.
- The oil has low volatility and a high flash point, indicating consumption from oil evaporation will be minimal. This is typical for synthetic oils.
- German Castrol has an excellent additive pack. Well formulated detergents and anti-wear additives. My only wish is that it had a bit more moly
- Not scientific, but my valve train is quieter running this oil…definite difference from Mobil 1 5W-30 and Amsoil 0W-30 I’ve tried. It’s quite possible the thicker nature of the German Castrol is the reason.

I also run a quart of 100% ester based oil (VP Racing RS530…another excellent oil) as a seal conditioner. The ester helps to keep the seals soft and keep the motor clean. This is probably not necessary due to the formulation of German Castrol, but it sure won’t hurt either

German Castrol can run at an 8,000 mile change interval…a PAO base stock oil will easily go this long. Based on other results others have seen with this oil doing the same thing, it should last until the 12-15,000 mile range.

The only place I know of in the US to get the German Castrol is at AutoZone…you may have to ask for it or special order it. It only comes in a 0W-30…any other Castrol SynTec you see on the shelf is a Group III base stock…it is not a true synthetic oil. In Canada, it’s my understanding is WalMart and Canadian Tire sell the German Castrol. This oil would be especially good for those cold winters up North.
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Next is the regarded as "High and mighty" Mobil 1:

The only reason I'm doing this is 1) Mobil 1 is a very popular oil and 2) Mobil 1 is not entirely what it claims to be.

Mobil 1 HM 10W-30 is API Service Category SL,SJ,CF. It meets ACEA A3/B3 and A3/B4 requirements. Mobil 1 HM 10W-40 is API Service Category SL,SJ,CF....it does not meet/list ACEA specifications.

Here is the MSDS

Both oils are on par with what you would expect for their given grades. Both have excellent flash points and pour points...the 10W-30 is very good pour point wise, it's good down to -54 deg C. IMO, the 10W-30 would be a great all year oil...there really is no point changing to the 10W-40 for the summer. the 10W-30 will perform very well even during the summer heat. Both oils have a robust additive pack.

Mobil 1 uses Group III + alphaolefins (AN) base oils including polyalphaolefins (PAO)...however, the primary base stock is Group III.


Quote:
In 2006, the results of a gas chromatography test on Mobil 1 5w-30 EP were posted by an industry expert on the popular motor oil discussion website BITOG. It showed the oil to be primarily composed of a less expensive, Group III processed mineral oil. Until this time, Mobil 1 was believed to be a true synthetic, utilizing a Group IV (PAO) base stock. The release of this information has led to a backlash against Exxon Mobil's lubricant products in many automotive communities. Ironically, in 1999, Mobil fought Castrol's change in formulation to a Group III base stock in motor oils being marketed as fully synthetic. Mobil claimed that Castrol was deceiving their customer base, while degrading their products. The National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus eventually ruled that Castrol could continue to market their SynTec line as a fully synthetic motor oil. Exxon Mobil currently refuses to comment on the primary base stock of their Mobil 1 series of oils. This has only added further confusion over the exact definition of the term "synthetic oil."

So far, I have not seen any further info on Mobil 1 oils that contradicts the above quote. I have seen this US Patent application by Exxon Mobil:

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...DN/20060211581 (I can't relink the patent, no searches lead to "proof")

The cliff notes on this is Exxon wants to patent the process to utilize Group III base stock with AN and PAO modifiers for use as "synthetic" base stock...one would assume this means their Mobil 1 line of oils. Since PAO and AN are rather expensive, the majority of the base stock is very likely to be Group III...by definition not a true synthetic oil. Appears to me they want to sell us oil marketed as a synthetic, at synthetic prices and increase their profit margin....I guess last year's record profit for any US company wasn't good enough

Keep in mind, Group III base stock does not make Mobil 1 a bad oil...it's actually very good. Take a look at the above pics...very clean...no deposits at all. It justs chaffs my tail pipe to pay synthetic prices and get a Group III oil...especially when Exxon will not come clean about it. Pennzoil Platinum is also using a Group III...the company makes no secret about it. In fact, their Platinum line is among the best there is due to the technology behind refining it.
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In short, the German Castrol is a true synthetic and the Mobil 1 is mineral based that claims to be synthetic due to their way of refining it. So the Mobil 1 is fine as long as its treated as a mineral (3k mi) or a semi-synthetic(5k mi). The GC can be used as a synthetic(8k mi). He also mentions his favorite racing oil...which is Nippon Eneos 0w50. But we're talking about 30 so I ignored that bit.

 

Mobil 1 changed their formula because it gave them no competitive advertising advantage...why spend the extra money when people aren't going to know the difference and they can't gain anything over the competition in their advertising claims...




I will still use it and listen to GM engineers over BITOG...

 

So....advertising advantage. They're letting the marketing dept. decide what quality oil they use? Explain.

There is a reason why its cheap and Royal Purple, AMSOil, German Castrol, and Redline aren't. People do investigate that.

 

Marketing and accounting.

Not that many people investigate that. I'm tired from work and want to go home, so this is short and sweet.

It is my understanding that Mobil 1 may have changed their base stock after they lost their lawsuit against Castrol.

Since Castrol could claim synthetic while using a cheaper base stock, it would make sense that Mobil 1 could/would switch to the same base stock as Castrol while still claiming synthetic. It may have made more financial sense to do this and remain number one in synthetic oil sales and still provide a quality, although slightly lower, product. While they could have attempted an ad campaign to show that Castrol really isn't using good base stock...internal studies may have shown that this type of message was lost on Joe consumer. Thus, my above argument.

Basically, 99% of consumers are going to run it and everything will be fine. You guys over on BITOG represent maybe 2% of oil purchasers. I'm making these numbers up, but bear with me.

I'd love to find the synthetic oil market share numbers, but right now...I'm going home...

 

I wonder if there was a lawsuit that made them step down from producing top tier gasoline, too. I was rather shocked when someone here showed me the list and even non Supermajor companies were making top tier gas...and here they are the largest of the Supermajors and they weren't.

I haven't heard of Castrol using a lower grade since everyone is saying the opposite. But then that lawsuit may have been long before German Castrol made an appearance. I thought the stuff was new in 2002, but guess I'm wrong.

I guess compromise is fine since they got "Mobil 1 recommended" on the oil cap to make Joe Consumer feel comfortable. But the minute they recommend Fram oil filters, this will all start again.

Ah, the "Made in the USA" label on the back of Syntec isn't backed up to be 100% synthetic and the "Made in Germany" is pure synthetic b/c the European OEM specs are more stringent. Thats is why people never say just Syntec, they say specifically German Castrol. Good bit of trivia.

 

At the end of the day I will still run Mobil 1.

 

I just stick with Mobil

no need to argue about it

 

Agreed.. GM says use Mobil 1 for a reason... most likely because its the best oil on the market..

 

Or because Mobile 1 paid them to recommend it in their vehicles kind of like XM paid them to put the XM radios in most of the cars they make...

I'm also not a big believer that there's much of a differance between one quality oil like Penzoil or Amsoil or Mobile 1 or whatever. Tests can be skewed one way or the other depending how whomever is testing the product wants the outcome to be. I do know that some conventional oils like Quaker State used to have a bad name for having a high wax content in their oils which cause build up and gunk in the motor but I don't believe that to be the case anymore. I think that as long as it meets the minimum requirements of the warranty after that it's a personal preference between the higher quality brands such as those mentioned above...

 

The manual recommends Mobil 1 5w30.. Plus GM recommends Mobil 1 in all of there high output engines and that is what comes in them from the factory..
I personally would only use Mobil 1...

 

Chuck as I stated above have you ever stopped to consider that maybe Mobile 1 pays GM to put their oil in all their cars and recommend it's usage? Kind of like XM pays them to put XM ready radios in their cars...

 

I can't find royal purple but I can find mobil 1, syntec, and Q; also whatever pennzoil calls their synthetic. I decided to be a big shot and used Q at one change and it was horrible...mobil 1 is silky smooth, no reason to go with anything else if the cost is the same.

I can't testify on royal purple and any other "non major" oil company...but I'd like to try greddy's synthetic because it might just be good. Motul probably makes some good stuff as well.

 

http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/...20Analysis.htm

but when was the las time a car has failed because of an oil related issue please guys come on honestly just use mobil 1 save your time money and effort unless you have OCD
dont flame i have

 

On the mainstream market. You can't walk into an autozone and buy amsoil or royal purple as far as I know.

 

They may pay GM.. Im not doubting that.. I am only stating what is recommended... I do know that in every individual study of motor oil, Mobil always does very well.. Tazmanian_Dvl If you do not like Mobil products or question the integrity of the oil then I highly recommend that you use something else.. The Question in hand is between Mobil 1 and Royal purple.. They are both great oils. I would not think that there would be any problems, and you could expect a long engine life with both. I just wouldn't put the cheap stuff in one just to save a few bucks..

 

So a post on an Amsoil site is unbiased? Yea right!

The only two oils I would use in my car is Penzoil Platinum or Mobile 1. I get the 5 QT jugs from Walmart when I see them on sale and I know I'm getting close to needing an oil change. I can normally get a 5 QT jug from Walmat for like $20 Bucks and A 1 QT bottle for about $5.50 and a filter for like $8 bucks. So the whole oil chane costs me about $30-$35 for good quality full synthetic oil...

 

On the east coast I can walk into a Advance Auto parts and have a choose between Mobil 1, Redline, and Royal Purple..

 

I'm not saying I dislike Mobile 1 or that it's a **** product. I'm just simply stating that among the higher quality oils I don't believe you can go wrong. Penzoil and Mobile 1 are the only two that I personally would use and it all depends what's on sail when I go to get the oil for my oil change...

Napa carries Royal Purple...

 

Then please enlighten me. I don't think that putting in a higher quality synthetic fluid in a run of the mill tranny like the F35 is gonna hurt anything, it will probably help. It will help smooth out shifting too. Unless their is something i don't know about the F35...

 

i can walk to auto zone or advanced auto parts and pick up Royal Purple along with water water and etc..

 

While this may be true. GM wouldn't just throw any ole oil in just because said oil manufacturer was willing to pay. They have a reputation to uphold. This needs to be a mutually beneficial relationship, and I think both parties benefit from this joint project.

I don't know enough about the F35. I'm just saying do you research. Look carefully at GM's lube specs and make certain you follow thieir guidelines.

In the past I have run RP synchromax in my FWD manual transaxles. Check the specs on the synchromax with what GM recommends. It all depends on what GM recommends.

For my money, I will be leaving the factory fill in for a while.

 

Is there any performance difference (besides a few tenths of a mile on fuel mileage) between using Mobile 1 5W-30 and 10W-30?

I've heard that the only reason GM uses 5W-30 instead of 10W-30 is to help their CAFE numbers (if it is a few tenths of a mile on every vehicle, this is a huge difference for GM).