TTR Manifold blocking PCV
01-13-2013, 02:44 PM
#1
Super Moderator
Platinum Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (16)
TTR Manifold blocking PCV
Taken from another member:
There is a big concern in the manifold which hinder the stock pcv system and I am working on a solution around it. It may even be better than stock if I my idea is correct. Beware.
I am not here to pic a spat with anyone just something that was curious and was pointed out to me. So I am here to share this info with the community. Blocking this port isn't going to blow up your engine today, tomorrow or next week. Just as having a big turbo isn't going to blow up your car but it will likely won't last as long as having the stock ko4.. You know what I am saying? So this manifold does interfere with the design of the pcv system.
Having said that, I have a good idea to make it work with the TTR manifold which may be even better than the stock system just for the stand point that I can get the oil out of the manifold. This is more important to me then performance gain which initially the reason for buying this thing. I know there's not much Aaron can do unless he decided to incorporate this into his manifold but that will add cost to the price.
Now that I have an idea how I may make this work, I will buy this manifold again just for the point of improving on my pcv with Powell's PCV kit.
To illustrate, here's a pic of the stock intake with a pcv valve in it
This is where that pcv line up to at the head.
Now this is where it should have been on the TTR mani and I've used a intake gasket to illustrate.
There is a big concern in the manifold which hinder the stock pcv system and I am working on a solution around it. It may even be better than stock if I my idea is correct. Beware.
I am not here to pic a spat with anyone just something that was curious and was pointed out to me. So I am here to share this info with the community. Blocking this port isn't going to blow up your engine today, tomorrow or next week. Just as having a big turbo isn't going to blow up your car but it will likely won't last as long as having the stock ko4.. You know what I am saying? So this manifold does interfere with the design of the pcv system.
Having said that, I have a good idea to make it work with the TTR manifold which may be even better than the stock system just for the stand point that I can get the oil out of the manifold. This is more important to me then performance gain which initially the reason for buying this thing. I know there's not much Aaron can do unless he decided to incorporate this into his manifold but that will add cost to the price.
Now that I have an idea how I may make this work, I will buy this manifold again just for the point of improving on my pcv with Powell's PCV kit.
To illustrate, here's a pic of the stock intake with a pcv valve in it
This is where that pcv line up to at the head.
Now this is where it should have been on the TTR mani and I've used a intake gasket to illustrate.
01-13-2013, 03:28 PM
#5
I just took my K&N SRI tube off the other day so I could have better room installing my Forge BPV and I noticed quite a bit of oil in the tube right by where it hooks on to the turbo, maybe a couple teaspoons worth. Could the said blocked port be a contributing factor? I never noticed it before.
01-13-2013, 03:36 PM
#6
Topic resolved:
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/turb...ifolds-294820/
We have already stated to BLRT (originator of this photos/post) and 07MetallicSC in another thread to START this thread. We initiated it. So before anyone comes trying to swing, that is not the point of this thread.
First, yes we block the pcv system, just like we do on the 2.2/2.4L manifolds, just like other manufactures do on this application and other applications. There has been no direct correlation of any effects proven by this. Could there be? Maybe. Could the stock PCV be improved? Maybe.
With all this being stated, BLRT had an idea, a remedy in mind, as he stated in the first post. We stated we would like to hear it and to post or email us. 07MetallicSC decided to leave all this out for what ever reason. Maybe we can ask 07MetallicSC to not just do a half job of making a thread, and post all the information we have already stated in this topic.
Plus as BLRT stated "I am working on a solution around it. It may even be better than stock if I my idea is correct." Sounds great to all having a TTR manifold with a possible better pcv solution.
At any rate, this is an informative thread. As some other member stated already, going with a bigger turbo you have already hindered/altered the stock pcv system, so having a TTR manifold with this setup is another topic, as stock pcv system is altered already. This thread to to look at options and possibly offer a solution for those in need to retain or improve the pcv system.
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/turb...ifolds-294820/
We have already stated to BLRT (originator of this photos/post) and 07MetallicSC in another thread to START this thread. We initiated it. So before anyone comes trying to swing, that is not the point of this thread.
First, yes we block the pcv system, just like we do on the 2.2/2.4L manifolds, just like other manufactures do on this application and other applications. There has been no direct correlation of any effects proven by this. Could there be? Maybe. Could the stock PCV be improved? Maybe.
With all this being stated, BLRT had an idea, a remedy in mind, as he stated in the first post. We stated we would like to hear it and to post or email us. 07MetallicSC decided to leave all this out for what ever reason. Maybe we can ask 07MetallicSC to not just do a half job of making a thread, and post all the information we have already stated in this topic.
Plus as BLRT stated "I am working on a solution around it. It may even be better than stock if I my idea is correct." Sounds great to all having a TTR manifold with a possible better pcv solution.
At any rate, this is an informative thread. As some other member stated already, going with a bigger turbo you have already hindered/altered the stock pcv system, so having a TTR manifold with this setup is another topic, as stock pcv system is altered already. This thread to to look at options and possibly offer a solution for those in need to retain or improve the pcv system.
Last edited by TurboTechRacing; 03-14-2013 at 11:34 AM.
01-13-2013, 05:02 PM
#9
For my part I will have nothing much to say about this aftermarket manifold and the operation of the pcv system, other than to say that common sense says clearly the oem pcv wont work as intended if the inlet vent port is blocked.
The fact that CW383 has oil in the intake is not a shock to me; the positive crankcase ventilation system on an LNF depends on a certain level of vacuum under certain conditions, and blocking the vent side into the IM would affect that, and the crank case pressure from the base of the engine has to go somewhere; it has one port left, and that leads to the turbo inlet on the K04. The fresh air inlet is one way check valved so it wont put oil into the intake.
Good luck.
The fact that CW383 has oil in the intake is not a shock to me; the positive crankcase ventilation system on an LNF depends on a certain level of vacuum under certain conditions, and blocking the vent side into the IM would affect that, and the crank case pressure from the base of the engine has to go somewhere; it has one port left, and that leads to the turbo inlet on the K04. The fresh air inlet is one way check valved so it wont put oil into the intake.
Good luck.
01-13-2013, 05:09 PM
#10
my hahn sheet metal has a check valve with a ball bearing in this location. Vacuums case when the car is out of boost. When the Car is in boost the check valve is forced closed and does not push air into the crank. I checked it with an air compressor and it has a nice click when under boost. Also the secondary PCV is vented on the back to an oil catch and then into vacuum on my turbo intake. Way better than stock. 
01-13-2013, 06:01 PM
#11
For my part I will have nothing much to say about this aftermarket manifold and the operation of the pcv system, other than to say that common sense says clearly the oem pcv wont work as intended if the inlet vent port is blocked.
The fact that CW383 has oil in the intake is not a shock to me; the positive crankcase ventilation system on an LNF depends on a certain level of vacuum under certain conditions, and blocking the vent side into the IM would affect that, and the crank case pressure from the base of the engine has to go somewhere; it has one port left, and that leads to the turbo inlet on the K04. The fresh air inlet is one way check valved so it wont put oil into the intake.
Good luck.
The fact that CW383 has oil in the intake is not a shock to me; the positive crankcase ventilation system on an LNF depends on a certain level of vacuum under certain conditions, and blocking the vent side into the IM would affect that, and the crank case pressure from the base of the engine has to go somewhere; it has one port left, and that leads to the turbo inlet on the K04. The fresh air inlet is one way check valved so it wont put oil into the intake.
Good luck.
Last edited by mrbelvedere; 01-13-2013 at 06:08 PM.
01-13-2013, 08:25 PM
#12
Let’s talk through how the stock PCV system works (hopefully some can learn) and then a possible improvement for everyone at the end! (Good things can happen!)
On the LNF there is a source of fresh air intake into the crank case. It is in the center of the valve cover on the back side (this is the one that comes from the intake tube). This intake tube line has a check valve to only allow fresh air into the engine, along with to meter the vacuum in the crank case.
Next air out, the turbo, on the compressor side, has a tube that runs to the left/passenger side of the back side of the valve cover. Reason for the location of this line is to cause a venturi effect/vacuum, to excavate air out of the crank case. This line pulls the fresh circulating air out along with any and all piston ring blow by that ends up in the crank case creating venturi effect. Under boost the PCV system is needed the most, as you will have the most blow-by occurring.
Under non-boost the PCV pulls air just like paragraph above, along with through the intake manifold as the intake manifold has vacuum to assist.
Under boost the intake manifold never lets air in the crank case (as it would pressurize it), air circulation is created by blow by, and the if air vacuum line pulls to much air out, to the turbo, it will pull additional air from the intake tube line; this air inlet from the air intake tube also balances and holds the proper amount of vacuum in the crank case. Keeping in mind the stock setup design of the turbo venturi system is more then adequate enough to take excavate all blow-by, in addition create the proper crank case vacuum. Having no PCV in the TTR manifold, in this condition (boost), has zero change in the PCV system. How the PCV in the LNF is setup (stated above), is actually really interesting because of the turbo function.
Because of paragraph number two above having an aftermarket turbo without a venturi line in the correct location to the turbo does not pull blow by out nor pull fresh air in through the air inlet under boost, nor assists during non boost conditions. You have no PCV system when it is needed most (in boost which most blow-by occurs).
Onto the aftermarket manifold as it is today, you still have the one inlet along with the venturi effect on the stock K04 turbo, or properly converted turbo with PCV control. A tap a line into the TTR manifold flange, and run a line into the intake manifold port, using a check valve in line could be done to offer the original full operations of the PCV system. Reason it must go into the manifold is because it is metered air in which will run back into the engine as it circulates; as it originated from the air intake tube, through the engine and back into the intake system.
Blocking the intake manifold port only modifies the PCV, under non boost conditions, when the blow by is at its least amount, causing minimal impact to the system; as the PCV system is still functioning, it just does not allow some extra air circulation to occur.
Here is where I think our manifold can help the PCV system. (As 07MetallicSC stated earlier, things like these post/ideas can help the community, and I think it will do just this!) Being the air going from the crankcase into the intake manifold has oil in the air. There may be a way to take this air and separate the oil out before it goes back into the engine. This would be an awesome benefit. It would be almost impossible to do this with the stock manifold as it is too integrated in stock form. Right now, by not having a port in our manifold, and having Powells PCV oil/air separator actually stops all oil from getting back in the intake system (good). Today Powell’s unit only stops the oil from the turbo side of things, with the stock manifold, which is still an improvement over stock; however by separating both locations will be BEST!
This is due to the venturi line pulling oil filled air from the crank case into the turbo. Powell's PCV system upgade is the solution to excavate this oil filled air to separate with the air/oil separator. Blocking the manifold air inlet will not cause more or less oil at this location. Blocking the manifold port only stops part of the fresh air intake circulation, under vacuum.
On the LNF there is a source of fresh air intake into the crank case. It is in the center of the valve cover on the back side (this is the one that comes from the intake tube). This intake tube line has a check valve to only allow fresh air into the engine, along with to meter the vacuum in the crank case.
Next air out, the turbo, on the compressor side, has a tube that runs to the left/passenger side of the back side of the valve cover. Reason for the location of this line is to cause a venturi effect/vacuum, to excavate air out of the crank case. This line pulls the fresh circulating air out along with any and all piston ring blow by that ends up in the crank case creating venturi effect. Under boost the PCV system is needed the most, as you will have the most blow-by occurring.
Under non-boost the PCV pulls air just like paragraph above, along with through the intake manifold as the intake manifold has vacuum to assist.
Under boost the intake manifold never lets air in the crank case (as it would pressurize it), air circulation is created by blow by, and the if air vacuum line pulls to much air out, to the turbo, it will pull additional air from the intake tube line; this air inlet from the air intake tube also balances and holds the proper amount of vacuum in the crank case. Keeping in mind the stock setup design of the turbo venturi system is more then adequate enough to take excavate all blow-by, in addition create the proper crank case vacuum. Having no PCV in the TTR manifold, in this condition (boost), has zero change in the PCV system. How the PCV in the LNF is setup (stated above), is actually really interesting because of the turbo function.
Because of paragraph number two above having an aftermarket turbo without a venturi line in the correct location to the turbo does not pull blow by out nor pull fresh air in through the air inlet under boost, nor assists during non boost conditions. You have no PCV system when it is needed most (in boost which most blow-by occurs).
Onto the aftermarket manifold as it is today, you still have the one inlet along with the venturi effect on the stock K04 turbo, or properly converted turbo with PCV control. A tap a line into the TTR manifold flange, and run a line into the intake manifold port, using a check valve in line could be done to offer the original full operations of the PCV system. Reason it must go into the manifold is because it is metered air in which will run back into the engine as it circulates; as it originated from the air intake tube, through the engine and back into the intake system.
Blocking the intake manifold port only modifies the PCV, under non boost conditions, when the blow by is at its least amount, causing minimal impact to the system; as the PCV system is still functioning, it just does not allow some extra air circulation to occur.
Here is where I think our manifold can help the PCV system. (As 07MetallicSC stated earlier, things like these post/ideas can help the community, and I think it will do just this!) Being the air going from the crankcase into the intake manifold has oil in the air. There may be a way to take this air and separate the oil out before it goes back into the engine. This would be an awesome benefit. It would be almost impossible to do this with the stock manifold as it is too integrated in stock form. Right now, by not having a port in our manifold, and having Powells PCV oil/air separator actually stops all oil from getting back in the intake system (good). Today Powell’s unit only stops the oil from the turbo side of things, with the stock manifold, which is still an improvement over stock; however by separating both locations will be BEST!
I just took my K&N SRI tube off the other day so I could have better room installing my Forge BPV and I noticed quite a bit of oil in the tube right by where it hooks on to the turbo, maybe a couple teaspoons worth. Could the said blocked port be a contributing factor? I never noticed it before.
This is due to the venturi line pulling oil filled air from the crank case into the turbo. Powell's PCV system upgade is the solution to excavate this oil filled air to separate with the air/oil separator. Blocking the manifold air inlet will not cause more or less oil at this location. Blocking the manifold port only stops part of the fresh air intake circulation, under vacuum.
01-13-2013, 09:31 PM
#14
Senior Member
Here is where I think our manifold can help the PCV system. (As 07MetallicSC stated earlier, things like these post/ideas can help the community, and I think it will do just this!) Being the air going from the crankcase into the intake manifold has oil in the air. There may be a way to take this air and separate the oil out before it goes back into the engine. This would be an awesome benefit. It would be almost impossible to do this with the stock manifold as it is too integrated in stock form. Right now, by not having a port in our manifold, and having Powells PCV oil/air separator actually stops all oil from getting back in the intake system (good). Today Powell’s unit only stops the oil from the turbo side of things, with the stock manifold, which is still an improvement over stock; however by separating both locations will be BEST!
This is due to the venturi line pulling oil filled air from the crank case into the turbo. Powell's PCV system upgade is the solution to excavate this oil filled air to separate with the air/oil separator. Blocking the manifold air inlet will not cause more or less oil at this location. Blocking the manifold port only stops part of the fresh air intake circulation, under vacuum.
This is due to the venturi line pulling oil filled air from the crank case into the turbo. Powell's PCV system upgade is the solution to excavate this oil filled air to separate with the air/oil separator. Blocking the manifold air inlet will not cause more or less oil at this location. Blocking the manifold port only stops part of the fresh air intake circulation, under vacuum.
That's what I was thinking too from my novice point of view. A head start for me is I already have John's PCV system. Even though it may or may not effect the overall stock pcv system too greatly - I don't know.. What I do know is I won't take that chance and have it blocked especially when I've invested in John's upgraded PCV system. There's an urgency for me to deal with the coking issue on the intake valves as some of you have seen the pics I'd posted in John's thread. My car is running fine but for how long if I don't take the coking issue seriously? I know all this will not cured the coking issues but at lease it will keep it at bay a little longer.
So my idea is the same as yours. I will tapped a 1/8" npt fitting to an -6 on the flange and connect/T the line to John's pcv side of the canister. This may be a little tricky as there isn't much room there for me to work with and there isn't as much material for me to work with. What I would suggest is you tap a 1/8" npt or what ever thread and leave this as an option for the users - adding a pcv line or leave it blocked.
As for incorporate that oneway/checkvalve, I don't see the need for that since there will not be any pressure on this branch ie. no pressure acting on it or going back into the crankcase/head. If someone think I need to have this, I can make a housing for this valve and have it splice into my -6 hose.
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I am not here to pretend that I know as much as some of you - I do not.
Last edited by blrt; 01-13-2013 at 09:42 PM.
01-13-2013, 09:49 PM
#16
That's what I was thinking too from my novice point of view. A head start for me is I already have John's PCV system. Even though it may or may not effect the overall stock pcv system too greatly - I don't know.. What I do know is I won't take that chance and have it blocked especially when I've invested in John's upgraded PCV system. There's an urgency for me to deal with the coking issue on the intake valves as some of you have seen the pics I'd posted in John's thread. My car is running fine but for how long if I don't take the coking issue seriously? I know all this will not cured the coking issues but at lease it will keep it at bay a little longer.
So my idea is the same as yours. I will tapped a 1/8" npt fitting to an -6 on the flange and connect/T the line to John's pcv side of the canister. This may be a little tricky as there isn't much room there for me to work with and there isn't as much material for me to work with. What I would suggest is you tap a 1/8" npt or what ever thread and leave this as an option for the users - adding a pcv line or leave it blocked.
As for incorporate that oneway/checkvalve, I don't see the need for that since there will not be any pressure on this branch ie. no pressure acting on it or going back into the crankcase/head. If someone think I need to have this, I can make a housing for this valve and have it splice into my -6 hose.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not here to pretend that I know as much as some of you - I do not.
So my idea is the same as yours. I will tapped a 1/8" npt fitting to an -6 on the flange and connect/T the line to John's pcv side of the canister. This may be a little tricky as there isn't much room there for me to work with and there isn't as much material for me to work with. What I would suggest is you tap a 1/8" npt or what ever thread and leave this as an option for the users - adding a pcv line or leave it blocked.
As for incorporate that oneway/checkvalve, I don't see the need for that since there will not be any pressure on this branch ie. no pressure acting on it or going back into the crankcase/head. If someone think I need to have this, I can make a housing for this valve and have it splice into my -6 hose.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not here to pretend that I know as much as some of you - I do not.
Anyone with a stock manifold will still have oil in their intake manifold/cylinder head, as right now there is NOT a solution to extract this oil from the air.
We can sure add a simple NPT on these flanges for an option for members to to work with their PCV setup, as each setup will be different. This would be a FREE solution to new manifolds. Some may want a check valve if they want to plumb into the TTR manifold. Those who do it like you state most likely would not need a check valve. A simple plug will allow the end user to choose the direction they desire.
For yours you could always TIG weld in a round tapped boss in there to allow a NPT port. Might be easier than tapping the flange.
However just a side note... as stated above if you have Powells system and have our manifold, technically there is NO way oil can get in the intake system BTW. Only way for oil to get out is through the air/oil seperator. (pending nothing else is mechanically wrong example valve stem seals.)
Our manifold may be the ultimate solution; the ability to seperate the oil out of the PCV system, in a location that is not possible now.
I would guess this would help a lot.
Last edited by TurboTechRacing; 01-13-2013 at 10:08 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
01-13-2013, 10:00 PM
#17
when you can fill powells can half up during a race I would say that the lack of baffling is a huge problem and it needs to be fixed not bandaided not to mention the pcv system is setup for emissions on a stock vehicle and at that it still **** poor when you quit thinking like a tree hugging hippie and build a system geared for performance not emissions then things will be different
GDS
GDS
Last edited by mrbelvedere; 01-13-2013 at 10:54 PM.
01-13-2013, 10:58 PM
#18
For Mr. Belvedere, who is a good innovator and very knowledgeable, he should know that with a drain back the Powell PCV wont fill with oil, unless the motor is broken. I am sure Mr. Belvedere would like to run a vacuum pump in his dream system. I sure would. But its a lot of money to spend and added complexity.
Warren Wang has been running a non -drain back system, so in part he can actually see and measure what is happening. On the street, the seperator does not fill up for weeks.
No doubt the stock system gets overwhelmed on the track, Warren fills his separator in 20 laps. Warren is another innovator, he runs his car on the track a lot, he is very knowledgeable and thinks things through. He has quantified how this separator can help.
Running the drain back Powell PCV will surely help the issue of valve coking, it certainly has shown that. But this thread is not about the Powell PCV
This is about the TTR manifold, and TTR should know that blocking the fresh air check valved port to the inlet manifold will disturb the delicate balance of a venturi/vacuum PCV system in a stock LNF.
In fact, the TTR manifold was "developed" for a non standard, non K04 aftermarket turbo equipped LNF engine.
The stock K04 system is designed to pull all the blow by from the crank case, even while in boost, out of the motor, and still keep the crank case pressure negative. Out of boost the check valves allow fresh air in.
This is not going to happen if the engine does not keep all the stock components in place for the PCV system. Todd needs to return that check valved fresh air port to the IM. As TTR pointed out, its metered air.
And Mr. Belvedere is correct, this LNF motor needs some help. The vented crank case air/oil travels along the length of the exhaust side of the rocker cover, through three oil separators, into a chamber, through an orifice, and down to the turbo. The LNF rocker cover PCV pathways are much better than the LSJ system. Its not enough.
Our PCV seperator is not just a catch can, it is a filtered and check valved device well known in the diesel engine world. So inserting this in the vent line so as to not disturb the OEM PCV system function, and returning oil to the engine in a safe pathway was my goal.
Hope this helps.
Oh PS I dont hug trees, but I like for my motors to pass emissions.
and right now Football is a lot more interesting lol
Last edited by Powell Race Parts; 01-13-2013 at 11:17 PM.
01-13-2013, 11:35 PM
#20
There is so much generalization going on in this thread it is hard to even think about getting on board. Thanks to Todd for bringing attention to this issue with the TTR manifold, he paid his money to get it , and is attempting to make it function properly , to OEM specs, a daunting task.
For Mr. Belvedere, who is a good innovator and very knowledgeable, he should know that with a drain back the Powell PCV wont fill with oil, unless the motor is broken. I am sure Mr. Belvedere would like to run a vacuum pump in his dream system. I sure would. But its a lot of money to spend and added complexity.
Warren Wang has been running a non -drain back system, so in part he can actually see and measure what is happening. On the street, the seperator does not fill up for weeks.
No doubt the stock system gets overwhelmed on the track, Warren fills his separator in 20 laps. Warren is another innovator, he runs his car on the track a lot, he is very knowledgeable and thinks things through. He has quantified how this separator can help.
Running the drain back Powell PCV will surely help the issue of valve coking, it certainly has shown that. But this thread is not about the Powell PCV
This is about the TTR manifold, and TTR should know that blocking the fresh air check valved port to the inlet manifold will disturb the delicate balance of a venturi/vacuum PCV system in a stock LNF.
In fact, the TTR manifold was "developed" for a non standard, non K04 aftermarket turbo equipped LNF engine.
The stock K04 system is designed to pull all the blow by from the crank case, while in boost, out of the motor, and still keep the crank case pressure negative.
This is not going to happen if the engine does not keep all the stock components in place for the PCV system. Todd needs to return that check valved fresh air port to the IM. As TTR pointed out, its metered air.
And Mr. Belvedere is correct, this LNF motor needs some help. The vented crank case air/oil travels along the length of the exhaust side of the rocker cover, through three oil separators, into a chamber, through an orifice, and down to the turbo. The LNF rocker cover PCV pathways are much better than the LSJ system. Its not enough.
Our PCV seperator is not just a catch can, it is a filtered and check valved device well known in the diesel engine world. So inserting this in the vent line so as to not disturb the OEM PCV system function, and returning oil to the engine in a safe pathway was my goal.
Hope this helps.
Oh PS I dont hug trees, but I like for my motors to pass emissions.
and right now Football is a lot more interesting lol
For Mr. Belvedere, who is a good innovator and very knowledgeable, he should know that with a drain back the Powell PCV wont fill with oil, unless the motor is broken. I am sure Mr. Belvedere would like to run a vacuum pump in his dream system. I sure would. But its a lot of money to spend and added complexity.
Warren Wang has been running a non -drain back system, so in part he can actually see and measure what is happening. On the street, the seperator does not fill up for weeks.
No doubt the stock system gets overwhelmed on the track, Warren fills his separator in 20 laps. Warren is another innovator, he runs his car on the track a lot, he is very knowledgeable and thinks things through. He has quantified how this separator can help.
Running the drain back Powell PCV will surely help the issue of valve coking, it certainly has shown that. But this thread is not about the Powell PCV
This is about the TTR manifold, and TTR should know that blocking the fresh air check valved port to the inlet manifold will disturb the delicate balance of a venturi/vacuum PCV system in a stock LNF.
In fact, the TTR manifold was "developed" for a non standard, non K04 aftermarket turbo equipped LNF engine.
The stock K04 system is designed to pull all the blow by from the crank case, while in boost, out of the motor, and still keep the crank case pressure negative.
This is not going to happen if the engine does not keep all the stock components in place for the PCV system. Todd needs to return that check valved fresh air port to the IM. As TTR pointed out, its metered air.
And Mr. Belvedere is correct, this LNF motor needs some help. The vented crank case air/oil travels along the length of the exhaust side of the rocker cover, through three oil separators, into a chamber, through an orifice, and down to the turbo. The LNF rocker cover PCV pathways are much better than the LSJ system. Its not enough.
Our PCV seperator is not just a catch can, it is a filtered and check valved device well known in the diesel engine world. So inserting this in the vent line so as to not disturb the OEM PCV system function, and returning oil to the engine in a safe pathway was my goal.
Hope this helps.
Oh PS I dont hug trees, but I like for my motors to pass emissions.
and right now Football is a lot more interesting lol
I really think your going to have to get away from the factory setup to get a good system
would someone mind posting a pic of the inside of a lnf valve cover I haven't seen one in a longtime
GDS
01-13-2013, 11:48 PM
#21
the one thing you don't need in the system is the port in the front of the head if it has oil in it its not realy a fresh air port as under normal driving it is vac source to pull oil vapor out when you put positive pressure on the manifold it shuts off till it gets a vac signal so under boosted conditions your only using the port in the back of the valve cover (minus the fresh air line its no different then the lsj) so why not increase the line size from the back to your sep setup and to the snail and plug the front its realy not needed to be honest and let your intake valves be even cleaner
I really think your going to have to get away from the factory setup to get a good system
would someone mind posting a pic of the inside of a lnf valve cover I haven't seen one in a longtime
GDS
I really think your going to have to get away from the factory setup to get a good system
would someone mind posting a pic of the inside of a lnf valve cover I haven't seen one in a longtime
GDS
Try the search button ( it never works for me lol)There are some really good pictures of a stripped LNF cover on this site somewhere, I dont feel like looking for them. There are three pancake separators under that tray...
01-14-2013, 01:08 AM
#23
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iTrader: (16)
Aaron its not a half done job of making this thread. I simply copied blrt post and posted it here. Anything you wanted to add could be done.here nothing was left out. Let's be grown ups here.
01-14-2013, 07:47 AM
#24
It is okay… However, you just pulled his post over, hindering the original post by James; you deleted all your post, but not all topics related to this concern in that thread. Oh well moving on…
It has been address that blocking this port yes does hinder the stock PCV function. We detailed out how the stock PCV on the LNF works; better IMO than anyone has ever done in this forum. Is it bad to block this port? Two members in this post, including us state no, not always. It actually stops the possibility of oil getting back in the intake system and coking the valves. The primary purpose of the PCV system is for emissions; I think members forget the primary purpose why PCV is there. The only performance based concern should be spoken of is excavating the blow by out of the crank case. This is a must. This is still achieved by the primary vent through the back of the engine. There may be an opportunity to increase the baffle in the valve cover to reduce the current level of air/oil from ever leaving out of the valve cover; this is a completely different topic though. By blocking the front port, as the current TTR manifold does currently is similar to a “cat less downpipe”; modifies stock emissions for increased performance (less coking of oil on the valves).
We have already stated we would offer a NPT port on the TTR flange on out upcoming new manifolds to offer members a choice on their PCV system. Best yet at no charge. Just like cat (plugged) vs cat less downpipes (remove the plug); before BLRT even posted this was his same thought on the solution. So we have addressed his concerns I believe. BLRT stated he wanted a port and seemed pleased that we thought of the same thing as he had in mind.
It has been address that blocking this port yes does hinder the stock PCV function. We detailed out how the stock PCV on the LNF works; better IMO than anyone has ever done in this forum. Is it bad to block this port? Two members in this post, including us state no, not always. It actually stops the possibility of oil getting back in the intake system and coking the valves. The primary purpose of the PCV system is for emissions; I think members forget the primary purpose why PCV is there. The only performance based concern should be spoken of is excavating the blow by out of the crank case. This is a must. This is still achieved by the primary vent through the back of the engine. There may be an opportunity to increase the baffle in the valve cover to reduce the current level of air/oil from ever leaving out of the valve cover; this is a completely different topic though. By blocking the front port, as the current TTR manifold does currently is similar to a “cat less downpipe”; modifies stock emissions for increased performance (less coking of oil on the valves).
We have already stated we would offer a NPT port on the TTR flange on out upcoming new manifolds to offer members a choice on their PCV system. Best yet at no charge. Just like cat (plugged) vs cat less downpipes (remove the plug); before BLRT even posted this was his same thought on the solution. So we have addressed his concerns I believe. BLRT stated he wanted a port and seemed pleased that we thought of the same thing as he had in mind.
01-14-2013, 08:19 AM
#25
With all this being stated, BLRT had an idea, a remedy in mind, as he stated in the first post. We stated we would like to hear it and to post or email us. 07MetallicSC decided to leave all this out for what ever reason. Maybe we can ask 07MetallicSC to not just do a half job of making a thread, and post all the information we have already stated in this topic.
That's a heck of a way to treat a customer who paid you for a part. Perhaps props are in order to BLRT for paying for your manifold and working with your parts to figure out a solution. In spite of being told to "remove himself from (the) thread"
I think thanks are in order to Todd and Mr. Belvedere for sharing their thoughts. Also to 07MetallicSC for making an effort to give BLRT a place to share his experience, and not get treated poorly over it.
It looks like Hahn produced an LNF conversion manifold that does not delete the PCV vent, and ZZP chose to stay with a stock manifold with the pcv intact for their successful high powered conversions.