I think this is the best route I can take for the highest torque to response time numbers that I need for road racing. I already make a good bit of power so don't tell me things like get the zzp turbo kit or something along those lines, while it SEEMS like it would be an excellent idea, I may end up SLOWER on technical tracks with lots of shifting. So I want to run the factory turbocharger sequentially into a supercharger and use a factory water to air cooler as well as the factory air to air intercooler. I fully intend to utilize the factory direct injection and supplement fuel from both the w/m injection system and possibly an auxillary injector on a standalone management system. Alternatively, I'll pay vince to unlock my fuel pressure tables and go from there, I may even attempt to run a cp3 injection pump on a belt to supplement rail pressure, it is still out on whether the cp3 can handle gasoline or if I should use an additive.

All the above said, I'm looking for a FACTORY LSJ SUPERCHARGER, MANIFOLD, HEAT EXCHANGER, INJECTORS and BELT. If you have any of this, particularly the supercharger and manifold, please PM me maybe we can work something out.

And to zzp, cams please, NAOW!

 

I can tell you haven't done much research on this at all. And that's a fail on your part as the information has been covered over and over again on here, even recently.

You WILL NOT be able to use the STOCK LNF K04 turbo with the stock lsj M62 setup.

If you have even half a brain, you'll be able to tell me why without me having to tell you. It's blatantly obvious.



Also, using a blower as the big power maker is sort of backwards, not necessarily wrong, but just different than what most would do.


edit: my bad, finger banged 3 instead of 4. good god *****.

 

you wouldnt be able to run the stock supercharger with the intake manifold due to the high pressure fuel pump and injectors... also if its a PITA to tune a twincharge on the LSJ u dont want to imagine with the DI set up... its really not worth the time, money, and work in order to do this... ur better off getting a gt2871r fr a quick spool and good power... also remember that the torque that you have right now its basically peak... the turbo does not hold any torque at all... its really not a good idea

 

I wasn't aware we had a K03

 

its a k04 isnt?

 

Why not to compound turbo setup? There is quite a few dsm's that are switching to this setup. We are able to spool a 35r as fast as our stock turbos which is super sweet.

 

Actually I did do the research, based purely on supercharger displacement vs turbine efficiency it DOES work, just not at redonkulous pressures. The turbo will still do majority of the work while the supercharger acts as a supplement to the shift, bringing back power faster than a larger turbo would. Maybe you can explain why it can't be done. I've ran through the numbers a couple of times and a bone stock LSJ supercharger with a pulley that might even be BIGGER than stock would work perfectly. I see no reason the factory K04 can't work with this particular setup, and I am well aware I cannot use the factory LSJ manifold, I need it for mock-up purposes. Think of this as building a broader torque plateau and possibly adding more to top end.

BTW, CALM DOWN DUDE!

 

FAIL! lol

 

no I understand what he was saying, I'm sure he typed 3 and meant 4, so quit jumping on him. I just need it for MOCK UP, at this time I have no intention of simply adapting LSJ parts to an LNF without some good clean fabrication to do it right. I also don't see how it will be a tuning nightmare, quite the opposite, a supercharger has a plottable efficiency/airflow curve that you can use to TUNE with. By the same token you would tune a smaller pulley you would use in this circumstance as well. The computer can be tricked into working just fine although some functions aren't going to work correctly, and I suspect there will be drastic changes to wastegate duty. If all else fails I'm sure BYT or Vince could handle the base tune for me for some dough anyways.

 

I have my stock H/E sitting in the garage if you want it.

 

PM me what you want for it.

 

Meh, naysayers...they told me we couldn't run E85 either, came damn close at 75% ethanol, eh?

Give it hell, a g.

 

wasting your time trying to do this. The 252 spools very quick when already in the rpm's. Or talk with zzp directly and see if they could get you a s248-9 I think it is, there is also a s250 from borg warner.

 

Are you allowed to run any kind of fuel in the racing you're doing? If you can, and you aren't running an E85 mix, that would be the smartest next step in more power, especially low end torque. (Even over race gas imho.)

Never mind if you've already been there done that.

 

I have not ran ethanol, but I have run both mix 93/V100 and straight V100 in conjunction with w/m 50% using both nozzles the kit came with and have run 20* and 21* respectively. Absolutely no knock but I noticed no difference going further. Right now some of the biggest reasons revolve around my pyro temps, I cannot in good faith run the turbo hotter than it is now. E85 is NOT available here, I have to drive 120 miles just to get some so that's not happening unless I order a drum of e50. My problem is I have no experience with alcohol and the relationship to an oxygenated fuel and pyro temps.

My unique problem is when I'm out on laps it's not 5-7 laps or 10 laps and come in, I can do 5-7, 10 hot and then come in, the temps are borderline with coolant at 235-255, oil temp 100 degrees hotter and pyro that has peaked 1700. So before the first posters get into my sauce about why I should run a bigger turbo or sequential turbos try to understand where I'm at with this, I can strain the **** out of the turbo in no time and the s252/256 neither are water jacketed, that's not gonna work for me. Not to mention I hit 1750 degrees at the texas mile last year. The engine gets HOT, it's making 150-170 hp per liter and I'm doing it at a continuous 80+% duty cycle for a little over 28 minutes.

 

Then run a delta 65 from AGP, dual ballbearing, water cooled. Or the zeta 3.0 from AGP. Your talking about heat being created but want to put a heat blower on there lol. I think it would be cool but not efficient.

 

yea man I would do a turbo swap there are other turbos out there that will give you more power or at lest more power through the power band. I under stand heat sucks for road raceing so if I was you I would call Bullseye or maybe even borg warner and they can make you a custom one for about what you would pay for a twinchare set up I would also wait and see how the gt2871r turns out

 

I honestly don't think it's a good idea. The car has decent response as is but the TB opening as slowly as it does definitely hinders things. Why not talk to Vince about his "1:1 gas pedal to TB" stuff he's been working on?

You may gain some low end and mid-range but your top end will suffer as the blower will only become a restriction. Also, when talking about heat, a hEaton blower is that last thing you want to put in-line with a K04 that's also pushing a good bit of boost (heat). Good luck on your quest man.

 

wait...what? how does he achieve that it PHYSICALLY takes like 800ms to open the throttle...

 

Yeah the 1:1 throttle thing is one of the stupidest things I've heard wanting to do with drive by wire throttle. That's the whole advantage to electric throttles, the fact it ISN'T 1:1. (Most cable throttles aren't anyway.) Does nobody out there know you can make the throttle open AHEAD of the pedal angle? Actually most every stock tune has the throttle angle ahead of pedal angle, meaning 50% pedal angle may be 60-70% throttle angle. Same with going the other direction, what's better for traction control but to be able to control pedal to throttle angles, especially in each gear. And yes, there is a delay in the LNF throttle mapping, but it's only for +/- less than a second and is only above like 80% throttle. You can map the LNF throttle to open 100% at 25% pedal if you wanted to. (stupid but possible.)

AG, that's a drag you don't have access to E85, it would most definitely help you out. You know if you're only running 50% E85 that 50 gallon drum would be 100 gallons worth once you mix it in. If it's not your daily driver maybe that would work? The advantage to E85 is not only is it 105 octane, but the fact that you have to run more fuel than with gas, you get a pretty substantial benefit from charge cooling. That and being able to run up to 26 degrees ign timing will lower combustion and exhaust temp too. There is power to be made from the 20 degrees you tried with race gas to 26 degrees you can run with E85. Not as much as from straight gas at 15 degrees or so max to race gas at 20, but there is still more power to be had. (wow, did anyone follow that?!)

The other thing you might want your tuner to work on is cam timing. Cam timing will effect exhaust temps, there may be changes that can lower your temps. I realize you're racing, but those coolant temps sound like they could be lowered. You're probably running into coolant temp ign timing retard, which is raising temps even further, a vicious circle. LNF's need the best fuel you can find so you can run the highest ign timing you can so everything runs cooler and more efficiently. You cannot get to MBT without knocking on 93 octane gas, not sure you could get to it with race gas even, especially with the temps running that high.
What I'm trying to say is before you go bigger turbo or supercharged, I think there's more you can do to optimize efficiency and lower temps. Ignition timing is one of the biggest power makers on these motors, and the only way you get there is by better fuel and/or lower temps. Just my .02.

 

AG I quoted you but I really meant my reply for this comment...

"The car has decent response as is but the TB opening as slowly as it does definitely hinders things. Why not talk to Vince about his "1:1 gas pedal to TB" stuff he's been working on?"

This comment was wrong, your comment was right, I understood exactly what you meant. We can already make the throttle open as fast as the hardware (motor in the throttle body) can move it. The only way to make it open faster is to change the throttle body itself. Anyone that understands engine operation and tuning would realize it's not always a good thing to have a throttle plate go from full closed to full open in a fraction of a second.

 

so in order to make a practical twincharged setup what turbo and m62 pulley would be recommended?

 

I'm glad you didn't get pissy.

I was referring to the throttle body situation as you've guys have mentioned now. If you use a roots type blower (probably any blower though) that turbo is going to spool stupid fast. Hell, Jimbo was having problems with the K04 by itself on a LSJ.

I just think you'd be better off buying a properly sized turbo. Like a decent sized turbo with a twinscroll exhaust housing.

I think with the money you spend doing some sort of fabricated twincharging, it'd be better spent on a fantastic mid-frame turbo with the newest technology to decrease spool time.







But, in the event that you have your heart set on doing this, THINK centrifugal supercharger, not roots. Especially if you are going to use your stock turbo for down low tq. A centrifugal will come on strong up high.

 

The 1:1 throttle calibration in practive means that actual throttle position will "eventually" match desired throttle position. It doesn't necessarily change how fast it opens. To get the most out of Stage 1 with e/meth and certainly anyone with a larger turbo should get this calibration.
It's less about the speed and more about actually having the throttle stay open, which it does not with Stage 1.

 

Did u look into the BNR k04-2860 or 2871? I have a gt2871 right now and have good power. But low end isnt the best but i think the ko4-2871 will give u some more low end power.