ReMz

http://www.supercars.net/cars/3323.html

ehemm... i was just talking to one of my buddies via MSN in the UK.... he says that Cobalt SS/SC's walk all over him in this car.

so, for my input.... a 2008 Cobalt SS going to a turbo is not that far off. also, dont start bitching that you want a turbo as of yet. stock for stock, they are almost identical in performance. (not to say i wouldnt mind having a turbo cobalt)

so how does GM go about boosting sales? by introducing a turbo engine that is more accepted in the tuner industry, not to mention requested by many ss/sc owners, while still offering nearly identical performance specs to the supercharged ecotec. everyone ends up happy.

Badmunky

All Gm had to0 do was put a chevy bage on that and I would have bout one in a second!

Later

xskier874

agreed that is one nice lookin car

could prob still get one by ordering it through gm though

Badmunky

Not here in the states you cant. There not leagle here. They have not passed crach testing here or emissions.

Later

l Sh1ft l

It's not the fact that stock for stock they are equal... It's that as of now Turbos are a lot easier to upgrade and some people may prefer turbos over superchargers.. I'm mixed between the two personally..

SilverSS/SC

That is not a fair comparison . The engine in that VXR is a Family 1 eco iron block/alum head= more weight , also it is not under rated like our SC engine is . Do a little more digging into the Astra aftermarket and youll see when modding starts the old school family 1 ecotec still had a leg over the family 2 all alum LSJ . A tune will put MK5 VXR Astra in the neighborhood of 285 hp/300 ft/lbs to the wheels They've already surpassed our numbers with a tune , spark plugs and a airfilter .

Linkage

http://www.regal-shop.co.uk/asps/Sho...ls.asp?id=5389

snowbred

that car looks bad ass

avro206

Why do people assume its about increasing sales?

GM puts newer engines into cars all the time for many reasons.

1. Perhaps the 2.0 Turbo has fewer emssions

2. Gets better gas mileage--thereby helping CAFE numbers get higher

3. Centralized production in the US

4. Too exspensive to upgrade the LSJ.


In 1994 the Caprice/Impala SS got the 5.7L LT1--pretty much the same as the Corvette and F-bodies. I addtion to a nice increase in power, it was replaced for the above mentione reasosn.

Also the Cadillac CTS-V got the 6.0 LS2 for 2006--it dropped the 5.7 because that engine was being dicontinuied. The LS2 is a better engine then the 5.7L

Underarrated or not the I can't see the LSJ matching the Turbos output. It has alot more boost and VVT. GM could increase production of the 2..0 Turbo and probably save money.

05BlackCobaltSS

the 2.0 doesn't have VVT, but yea more boost. BUT i still don't really understand why GM would be discontinue or slow production of the LSJ after only 4 years (2004 IRL-2007 CSS) However, the HHR is getting the 2.0 S/C in 2007, so why would GM drop it from their other cars just to keep it running for one model? Now, what they might to to compete with the new Caliber is they might put a new turbo in it, but it won't be the 260 hp version. But personnaly, i don't see them upgrading the engine to a turbo. At least, not in the near future. Why? because of GM upgrades and adds as little as 20-25 more hosrses under the hood, it would require them o chande halfshafts, clutch, and brakes, much less if they added another 55 hp (260 hp turbo 2.0). To me, GM sees that as too much money to spend to put 20+ horses in it. So i think if GM is goingto go turbo, it will be a small turbo, and it will probably produce close to, if not the same power outputs as the S/C. Maybe a 10-15 hp increase.

avro206

Can you 100% confirm that the HHR is getting S/C for 07? Some engines have short life spans. The 5.7 LT1 was from 1992 (Corvettes only that year) until 1997
(F-bodies, 93-97, Corvettes 92-96)

The 3.5L DOHC was only 4 years! And only in the Olds Intrigue and Aurora. Other divisons turned down the engine in favour the NA 3800 and S/C 3800.

But the LSJ is simply a variation of the Ecotec family--the actual engine lives on and will be improved. Its just a question of what method of F/I would be used.


Hopefully GM would be wise and not nuetre the 2.0 Turbo much or not at all. That would be dumb

SilverSS/SC

Bingo bingo and bingo . There are new emissions and fuel economy standards coming that GM is gonna have to meet with the 08 Cobalt refresh , and the UK's emissions standards are stricter than ours , and by 2008 the UK and Europe will be all sharing common Ecotec engines( sidenote Saturn will be getting the refreshed 08 Astra , not the one in the link above ) . As far as performance variants go , the 2.0t DI is GM's new global performance engine, that will be spread farther than the Soltice, Sky and Opel GT eventually worked into Saab( 9-3 , 9-5) , Chevy(Cobalt) , Pontiac ( G4, G5) , Vauxhal(astra) , Opel(astra) , Holden(astra) , Saturn(astra) .

05blackcobaltss- Our LSJ already makes on average 240 crank hp , so theres no reason to say the Cobalt needs all these theoretical upgrades , because it doesnt . The new engine will have to go by the new SAE ratings and wouldnt be underated . Given that , thats not to big of a actual boost now is it ? Thought it would have different axles and a clutch anyways with Europes 6 speed transmission .

The 2.0 SC and the 2.0t DI used a common shortblock , so pertaining to the LSJ's seat time on the market thry wouldnt be re-inventing the wheel here with new engine . Anf you wanna talk about short shelf life . The extensively updated LS2 is history in 2008 . Thats a whole whopping 3 years , set to be replaced with the new LS3 .... a 6.2 with VVT and cylinder de-activation .

zinner

The link says *B*hp, thats break horsepower which is at the crank. The also have 98 octane gas in the UK at the pump.

felix2388

Same here im stuck between both. However i really like the Supercharged feel and sound. Plus its not as common as turbos. SC's are quite behind in upgrades, however i believe its got a great horizon in the future.

Vette Jr.

get rid of the hatch back and you got yourself an SS/TC

Asphalt Assault

Tuner acceptance = motor ready for stepped mods for people that are on a budget. I would love to build up the car gradually but I feel I have to make a choice. Am I building a supercharged engine or a turbo? why? pistons. Either get the turbo kit (when available) and then low compression pistons or go with higher compression pistons with the supercharger.

If GM would make a Turbo motor with forged pistons that came 200HP that could withstand 500HP and throughout the drive train they would be selling without question. You want tuner dominance? I think this is the key and they would promote it that way.

I am going to do exhaust pistons and intake first. then HP tuner pulley and injectors. that is the plan. should be able to get 400HP but I want to see if 500 is possible with stock supercharger and 8000rpm. wont be for awhile though. maybe next spring.

EvlPeanut

Why does every body that has a SS/SC that tunes / mods it automatically assumes all people tune / mod theirs.

While tuning is a part of the Cobalts/Ions/G5, it's no were near the "big" picture. GM isn't selling these cars just to please the tuners that buy them, that would be a shitty business model, they need to please the masses.

I just don't understand why everyone thinks they would put a Turbo in the SS, it doesn't make sence. The Cobalt/Ion/G5 are GM's cars to compete with the Honda's and Toyota's on the road, and NOT with STI's and 350z. If they were to suddenly want to go head to head with STI's that would pretty much get a 5K-10K or more price increase, and GM knows nobody is going to buy a 30K to 35K Chev econo box car unless it cooked them dinner and folded their laundry on the way home from work. On top of that, were would that leave the Chev car line up price wise??

1 Aveo
2 Base Cobalt
3 Malibu
4 Impala
5 Cobalt SS/T??

Another thing is a SS/T would cut into the sales of the Solstice and the Camero big time.

edit: and for sales, to my knowledge SS 2.4 and SS/SC sales have been great for GM.

Asphalt Assault

GM says 50 to 80% of the purchasers will modify their car. They know it and promote it. That is why they have the GM cookbook for free to promote this activity. That is what dives the honda civic SI sales and Accura RSX sales, Toyota Celica sales, Nissan 240. etc.

What wins on sunday sells on monday. that still applies and GM knows it. that applies to the base model right on up due to association of a brand "COBALT". They are appealling to the masses and that is the big picture. WHy would GM go to the trouble to win Time Attack and sponsor the ST teams. Why would they give Car customisers a free car to build and show at various car shows. Its good business to get exporsure and sells the whole line.

You mean IYO nobody would buy a 35-30 econobox. If put down the #'s and less price of an STI it would sell.

LOL cut into soltice sales and camaro sales LOL those are totally different market segments. If a guy wants to buy a roaster he will, if a guy wants to buy a V8 muscle car he will, If a guy wants to buy gas enconomy car he will, if a guy wants a light weight performance car and have fun modifying it he will.

Just curious - do you have gender confusion. You just don't make business sense. but you think you do. that makes you dangerous.

EvlPeanut

I serisously doubt 50% - 80% of people that purchase a car modify it. So of the 309,375 that bought a new GM car in december 05 154,687 (50%) to 247,450 (80%) will modify their car. On the other hand, if buying new floor mats count, then maybe....

They invest money into the "tuning" culture, because every time a car show or magazine talks about the customized version of their car at a car show its advertising.

If you price 2 or 3 completely different cars in the same vehicle line at or near same price, wether you want to beleive it or not, they are going to cut into each others sales.

edit: my bad, I used the wrong numbers..... 392,041 in december 05. So that makes 196,020 (50%) and 313,632 (80%). That means that more people will modify their cars just bought in december 05 than the total number of GM cars sold in March 05.

edit2: re-read your post, if you meant that 50-80% of purchasers of a cobalt ss, then that makes sence. I read through your post to fast.

ReMz

comparing this car to the SS/SC is not a fair comparison at this point, however, it is a 2.0l ecotec with a turbo... the Sky does not count because it is RWD. now we could argue all day about the specs, but 1/4 times from the factory seem to be the end all comparison.

i do not agree completey with a statement that GM does not make decisions simply for sales. that is their one and only goal, is it not? there are guidelines they have to follow and decisions that will ultimately help them achieve higher sales.... if you think GM engineers are trying to pass emissions with flying colors simply for pleasure, you are wrong.... they would love nothing better than to have 'engineering freedom', if you will.

im way too tired to go in depth and dwell ..... i would offer some examples otherwise. plus who wants to read a 1000 word response.

i just thought this VXR would offer a nice basis for discussion

ugg.. its memorial day weekend and im sitting at my computer talking car politics.... haha...

SSKING

thats what they are going to do but with saturn

ReMz

eh?

btw... i do have to agree... that is quite a sexy car.... and has that european appeal. PLUS, it's technically still American

SSKING

heres the thing if you want a SS/SC get it now, you have till 07,,,,if you want a SS/TC then wait for the 08 SS,,,,,,,and "remz" what are you mad for you already have a SS/SC?

distillion

ill keep my ss sc thanks

SSKING

the opel astra will be rebadge as a saturn in 08 to replace the ion redline

ReMz

im not mad at all... where did you gather that from?

i LOOOOOVVVVVEEE my SS/SC and you would have to pry it from my cold dead hands for a turbo trade in.

i do like turbo's a majority of the time tho :P

edit: just read the topic title... i just posted this after reading the numerous SS/TC threads.
hell, a pulley swap is a harder mod than tuning a turbo? i dont think so ... hahahahaha