is a 3" worth it?
is a 3" worth it?
hey i was wonder if or when you would need to get a 3" exhaust on my car? i am getting stage 2 from gm soon and thinking of goin with a 2.85 pully on it then with a tune from hp tuners could i run a 2.5" exhaust or would a 3" be better?
3" exhaust is usually to support 300+whp applications. you'd really only be at around 250-260, so its not necessary to go that big. i've got a 2.9" pulley, and alot of other mods, and i chose the 2.5" exhaust. I've heard that big exhausts can really hurt your low-end performance.. but some people have them and like it.. so, to each his own.
I would say go 3" but that is only if you dont care about it being loud, I have almost full 3" on mine and I love the way it sounds
I have the GM stage 2 and a 2.5" flowmaster exhaust. Its freaking loud, let me tell you. I noticed a good difference. Ive never had a 3" exhaust but like the first guy that posted said, 3" is for 300whp plus applications. I would get a 2.5" if i was you. Also, do research on these online tunes because ive heard alot of bad things about them. Im getting the 2.9" pulley from Nate which will run safely with my stage 2. Id PM nate about it but if im not mistaking you can run the 2.85" pulley safely with your Stage 2 tune and injectors.
3" exhaust is usually to support 300+whp applications. you'd really only be at around 250-260, so its not necessary to go that big. i've got a 2.9" pulley, and alot of other mods, and i chose the 2.5" exhaust. I've heard that big exhausts can really hurt your low-end performance.. but some people have them and like it.. so, to each his own.
S2+ = 3" exhaust for max power
Read this thread.
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/show...hlight=exhaust
Please shut up and stop spewing this crap on the forum.
S2+ = 3" exhaust for max power
Read this thread.
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/show...hlight=exhaust
S2+ = 3" exhaust for max power
Read this thread.
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/show...hlight=exhaust
Found this little diddy on our local site...
Backpressure: The myth and why it's wrong.
I. Introduction
One of the most misunderstood concepts in exhaust theory is backpressure. People love to talk about backpressure on message boards with no real understanding of what it is and what it's consequences are. I'm sure many of you have heard or read the phrase "Hondas need backpressure" when discussing exhaust upgrades. That phrase is in fact completely inaccurate and a wholly misguided notion.
II. Some basic exhaust theory
Your exhaust system is designed to evacuate gases from the combustion chamber quickly and efficently. Exhaust gases are not produced in a smooth stream; exhaust gases originate in pulses. A 4 cylinder motor will have 4 distinct pulses per complete engine cycle, a 6 cylinder has 6 pules and so on. The more pulses that are produced, the more continuous the exhaust flow. Backpressure can be loosely defined as the resistance to positive flow - in this case, the resistance to positive flow of the exhaust stream.
III. Backpressure and velocity
Some people operate under the misguided notion that wider pipes are more effective at clearing the combustion chamber than narrower pipes. It's not hard to see how this misconception is appealing - wider pipes have the capability to flow more than narrower pipes. So if they have the ability to flow more, why isn't "wider is better" a good rule of thumb for exhaust upgrading? In a word - VELOCITY. I'm sure that all of you have at one time used a garden hose w/o a spray nozzle on it. If you let the water just run unrestricted out of the house it flows at a rather slow rate. However, if you take your finger and cover part of the opening, the water will flow out at a much much faster rate.
The astute exhaust designer knows that you must balance flow capacity with velocity. You want the exhaust gases to exit the chamber and speed along at the highest velocity possible - you want a FAST exhaust stream. If you have two exhaust pulses of equal volume, one in a 2" pipe and one in a 3" pipe, the pulse in the 2" pipe will be traveling considerably FASTER than the pulse in the 3" pipe. While it is true that the narrower the pipe, the higher the velocity of the exiting gases, you want make sure the pipe is wide enough so that there is as little backpressure as possible while maintaining suitable exhaust gas velocity. Backpressure in it's most extreme form can lead to reversion of the exhaust stream - that is to say the exhaust flows backwards, which is not good. The trick is to have a pipe that that is as narrow as possible while having as close to zero backpressure as possible at the RPM range you want your power band to be located at. Exhaust pipe diameters are best suited to a particular RPM range. A smaller pipe diameter will produce higher exhaust velocities at a lower RPM but create unacceptably high amounts of backpressure at high rpm. Thus if your powerband is located 2-3000 RPM you'd want a narrower pipe than if your powerband is located at 8-9000RPM.
Many engineers try to work around the RPM specific nature of pipe diameters by using setups that are capable of creating a similar effect as a change in pipe diameter on the fly. The most advanced is Ferrari's which consists of two exhaust paths after the header - at low RPM only one path is open to maintain exhaust velocity, but as RPM climbs and exhaust volume increases, the second path is opened to curb backpressure - since there is greater exhaust volume there is no loss in flow velocity. BMW and Nissan use a simpler and less effective method - there is a single exhaust path to the muffler; the muffler has two paths; one path is closed at low RPM but both are open at high RPM.
IV. So how did this myth come to be?
I often wonder how the myth "Hondas need backpressure" came to be. Mostly I believe it is a misunderstanding of what is going on with the exhaust stream as pipe diameters change. For instance, someone with a civic decides he's going to uprade his exhaust with a 3" diameter piping. Once it's installed the owner notices that he seems to have lost a good bit of power throughout the powerband. He makes the connections in the following manner: "My wider exhaust eliminated all backpressure but I lost power, therefore the motor must need some backpressure in order to make power." What he did not realize is that he killed off all his flow velocity by using such a ridiculously wide pipe. It would have been possible for him to achieve close to zero backpressure with a much narrower pipe - in that way he would not have lost all his flow velocity.
V. So why is exhaust velocity so important?
The faster an exhaust pulse moves, the better it can scavenge out all of the spent gasses during valve overlap. The guiding principles of exhaust pulse scavenging are a bit beyond the scope of this doc but the general idea is a fast moving pulse creates a low pressure area behind it. This low pressure area acts as a vacuum and draws along the air behind it. A similar example would be a vehicle traveling at a high rate of speed on a dusty road. There is a low pressure area immediately behind the moving vehicle - dust particles get sucked into this low pressure area causing it to collect on the back of the vehicle. This effect is most noticeable on vans and hatchbacks which tend to create large trailing low pressure areas - giving rise to the numerous "wash me please" messages written in the thickly collected dust on the rear door(s).
I. Introduction
One of the most misunderstood concepts in exhaust theory is backpressure. People love to talk about backpressure on message boards with no real understanding of what it is and what it's consequences are. I'm sure many of you have heard or read the phrase "Hondas need backpressure" when discussing exhaust upgrades. That phrase is in fact completely inaccurate and a wholly misguided notion.
II. Some basic exhaust theory
Your exhaust system is designed to evacuate gases from the combustion chamber quickly and efficently. Exhaust gases are not produced in a smooth stream; exhaust gases originate in pulses. A 4 cylinder motor will have 4 distinct pulses per complete engine cycle, a 6 cylinder has 6 pules and so on. The more pulses that are produced, the more continuous the exhaust flow. Backpressure can be loosely defined as the resistance to positive flow - in this case, the resistance to positive flow of the exhaust stream.
III. Backpressure and velocity
Some people operate under the misguided notion that wider pipes are more effective at clearing the combustion chamber than narrower pipes. It's not hard to see how this misconception is appealing - wider pipes have the capability to flow more than narrower pipes. So if they have the ability to flow more, why isn't "wider is better" a good rule of thumb for exhaust upgrading? In a word - VELOCITY. I'm sure that all of you have at one time used a garden hose w/o a spray nozzle on it. If you let the water just run unrestricted out of the house it flows at a rather slow rate. However, if you take your finger and cover part of the opening, the water will flow out at a much much faster rate.
The astute exhaust designer knows that you must balance flow capacity with velocity. You want the exhaust gases to exit the chamber and speed along at the highest velocity possible - you want a FAST exhaust stream. If you have two exhaust pulses of equal volume, one in a 2" pipe and one in a 3" pipe, the pulse in the 2" pipe will be traveling considerably FASTER than the pulse in the 3" pipe. While it is true that the narrower the pipe, the higher the velocity of the exiting gases, you want make sure the pipe is wide enough so that there is as little backpressure as possible while maintaining suitable exhaust gas velocity. Backpressure in it's most extreme form can lead to reversion of the exhaust stream - that is to say the exhaust flows backwards, which is not good. The trick is to have a pipe that that is as narrow as possible while having as close to zero backpressure as possible at the RPM range you want your power band to be located at. Exhaust pipe diameters are best suited to a particular RPM range. A smaller pipe diameter will produce higher exhaust velocities at a lower RPM but create unacceptably high amounts of backpressure at high rpm. Thus if your powerband is located 2-3000 RPM you'd want a narrower pipe than if your powerband is located at 8-9000RPM.
Many engineers try to work around the RPM specific nature of pipe diameters by using setups that are capable of creating a similar effect as a change in pipe diameter on the fly. The most advanced is Ferrari's which consists of two exhaust paths after the header - at low RPM only one path is open to maintain exhaust velocity, but as RPM climbs and exhaust volume increases, the second path is opened to curb backpressure - since there is greater exhaust volume there is no loss in flow velocity. BMW and Nissan use a simpler and less effective method - there is a single exhaust path to the muffler; the muffler has two paths; one path is closed at low RPM but both are open at high RPM.
IV. So how did this myth come to be?
I often wonder how the myth "Hondas need backpressure" came to be. Mostly I believe it is a misunderstanding of what is going on with the exhaust stream as pipe diameters change. For instance, someone with a civic decides he's going to uprade his exhaust with a 3" diameter piping. Once it's installed the owner notices that he seems to have lost a good bit of power throughout the powerband. He makes the connections in the following manner: "My wider exhaust eliminated all backpressure but I lost power, therefore the motor must need some backpressure in order to make power." What he did not realize is that he killed off all his flow velocity by using such a ridiculously wide pipe. It would have been possible for him to achieve close to zero backpressure with a much narrower pipe - in that way he would not have lost all his flow velocity.
V. So why is exhaust velocity so important?
The faster an exhaust pulse moves, the better it can scavenge out all of the spent gasses during valve overlap. The guiding principles of exhaust pulse scavenging are a bit beyond the scope of this doc but the general idea is a fast moving pulse creates a low pressure area behind it. This low pressure area acts as a vacuum and draws along the air behind it. A similar example would be a vehicle traveling at a high rate of speed on a dusty road. There is a low pressure area immediately behind the moving vehicle - dust particles get sucked into this low pressure area causing it to collect on the back of the vehicle. This effect is most noticeable on vans and hatchbacks which tend to create large trailing low pressure areas - giving rise to the numerous "wash me please" messages written in the thickly collected dust on the rear door(s).
Dont waste you money on gm stage 2 if your just going to get a 2.8 pulley then pay for a hp tune, just buy a 2.8 60's and get tuned, if you search on here it shows how much a 3" inch exhaust flows over stock and 2.5" exhaust. Its going to loud though, i have had both 3" and 2.5" they both have therw advantages.
Why does everyone complain about loss of low end? A few lbs of torque loss down low helps us get out of the hole quicker.
I'm still waiting for someone to dyno a SS/IRL with a 3" exhaust from 1500-7000rpm. I want to see how bad the torque loss is. I think it's in everyone's mind.
I'm still waiting for someone to dyno a SS/IRL with a 3" exhaust from 1500-7000rpm. I want to see how bad the torque loss is. I think it's in everyone's mind.
Please shut up and stop spewing this crap on the forum.
S2+ = 3" exhaust for max power
Read this thread.
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/show...hlight=exhaust
S2+ = 3" exhaust for max power
Read this thread.
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/show...hlight=exhaust
2.77 (diameter of pipe - unfactored). So because you have a muffler + resonator + CAT anything less than a 3" exhaust won't be optimised for the car stated in example. And it should be mandrel bent.
That looks like opinion to me.
And the opinion of someone not very familiar with fluid dynamics.
If you have a pressurised system with a restriction such as a cat at the high end of the system, opening up the flow of the piping POST cat will do nothing to change the restriction OF the cat.
His own calculations for a 315bhp I+E+H+2.6+HPTuned cobalt showed a required exhaust port of 2.7 inches.
Sounds about right to me.
which would put something like S2 at almost exactly 2.5.
and btw, why in the **** would a resonator require you to up your exhaust diameter too?
Sorry man. but you should be careful not to believe everything you read.
and definately dont flame people with that as your proof.
Also, while were at it, your using this kind of information, as proof enough to rip on members?
That looks like opinion to me.
And the opinion of someone not very familiar with fluid dynamics.
If you have a pressurised system with a restriction such as a cat at the high end of the system, opening up the flow of the piping POST cat will do nothing to change the restriction OF the cat.
His own calculations for a 315bhp I+E+H+2.6+HPTuned cobalt showed a required exhaust port of 2.7 inches.
Sounds about right to me.
which would put something like S2 at almost exactly 2.5.
and btw, why in the **** would a resonator require you to up your exhaust diameter too?
Sorry man. but you should be careful not to believe everything you read.
and definately dont flame people with that as your proof.
That looks like opinion to me.
And the opinion of someone not very familiar with fluid dynamics.
If you have a pressurised system with a restriction such as a cat at the high end of the system, opening up the flow of the piping POST cat will do nothing to change the restriction OF the cat.
His own calculations for a 315bhp I+E+H+2.6+HPTuned cobalt showed a required exhaust port of 2.7 inches.
Sounds about right to me.
which would put something like S2 at almost exactly 2.5.
and btw, why in the **** would a resonator require you to up your exhaust diameter too?
Sorry man. but you should be careful not to believe everything you read.
and definately dont flame people with that as your proof.



