cams and daily driving.
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From: Still fixing others mistakes.
see! im not the only one. you just get to a certain point, and you don't feel like doing anything else. i don't feel like taking the "kill" tune out of my car right now.
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From: Quebec City, Quebec
Area47 I am roughly in the same situation than you. If you are not in the feel it is because it is not the right direction to go. Like me I got a set of 60# injectors sitting at home but I do not feel like it is the time to put them in. Why .. because I am not convinced that boosting that much PSI with a pulley so small on the M62 is the way to go for safe high power.
As far as the cams are concerned an EVO 272 grind looks to be a bit radicle for your (and mine) needs, speaking of the duration. But speaking of the lift, if I am not mistaken, it is not more than stock (or a bit less) so I am truly wondering if this is the right grind for a streetable LSJ looking for more power.
Speaking of valve lift, GMPP in their L61 and LSJ build book got it increase it so I think it is the way to go. They also states the stock LSJ head (with the STOCK exhaust PORTS) are causing no HP loss up to 275 (W)HP only. I know they use that LSJ sand cast head for the 1000-1400HP drag racings Cobalts, but they got definitly the ports CNC ported.
So I think a mild porting of the exhaust ports is definitly the way to go for a streetable LSJ along with upgraded cams to open up the top end and lower the heat levels.
If we look at the Comp Cams grinds they offer, IMO the Stage 2 (or the blower grind) could be plenty enough to bring some smiles in our faces. We should simply get our stock cams grinded (or buy another set and sent them to Comp for grinding).
Hopefully I will be brave enough to open that motor soon to be on of the guinea pig ... again.
As far as the cams are concerned an EVO 272 grind looks to be a bit radicle for your (and mine) needs, speaking of the duration. But speaking of the lift, if I am not mistaken, it is not more than stock (or a bit less) so I am truly wondering if this is the right grind for a streetable LSJ looking for more power.
Speaking of valve lift, GMPP in their L61 and LSJ build book got it increase it so I think it is the way to go. They also states the stock LSJ head (with the STOCK exhaust PORTS) are causing no HP loss up to 275 (W)HP only. I know they use that LSJ sand cast head for the 1000-1400HP drag racings Cobalts, but they got definitly the ports CNC ported.
So I think a mild porting of the exhaust ports is definitly the way to go for a streetable LSJ along with upgraded cams to open up the top end and lower the heat levels.
If we look at the Comp Cams grinds they offer, IMO the Stage 2 (or the blower grind) could be plenty enough to bring some smiles in our faces. We should simply get our stock cams grinded (or buy another set and sent them to Comp for grinding).
Hopefully I will be brave enough to open that motor soon to be on of the guinea pig ... again.
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From: Still fixing others mistakes.
Area47 I am roughly in the same situation than you. If you are not in the feel it is because it is not the right direction to go. Like me I got a set of 60# injectors sitting at home but I do not feel like it is the time to put them in. Why .. because I am not convinced that boosting that much PSI with a pulley so small on the M62 is the way to go for safe high power.
As far as the cams are concerned an EVO 272 grind looks to be a bit radicle for your (and mine) needs, speaking of the duration. But speaking of the lift, if I am not mistaken, it is not more than stock (or a bit less) so I am truly wondering if this is the right grind for a streetable LSJ looking for more power.
Speaking of valve lift, GMPP in their L61 and LSJ build book got it increase it so I think it is the way to go. They also states the stock LSJ head (with the STOCK exhaust PORTS) are causing no HP loss up to 275 (W)HP only. I know they use that LSJ sand cast head for the 1000-1400HP drag racings Cobalts, but they got definitly the ports CNC ported.
So I think a mild porting of the exhaust ports is definitly the way to go for a streetable LSJ along with upgraded cams to open up the top end and lower the heat levels.
If we look at the Comp Cams grinds they offer, IMO the Stage 2 (or the blower grind) could be plenty enough to bring some smiles in our faces. We should simply get our stock cams grinded (or buy another set and sent them to Comp for grinding).
Hopefully I will be brave enough to open that motor soon to be on of the guinea pig ... again.
As far as the cams are concerned an EVO 272 grind looks to be a bit radicle for your (and mine) needs, speaking of the duration. But speaking of the lift, if I am not mistaken, it is not more than stock (or a bit less) so I am truly wondering if this is the right grind for a streetable LSJ looking for more power.
Speaking of valve lift, GMPP in their L61 and LSJ build book got it increase it so I think it is the way to go. They also states the stock LSJ head (with the STOCK exhaust PORTS) are causing no HP loss up to 275 (W)HP only. I know they use that LSJ sand cast head for the 1000-1400HP drag racings Cobalts, but they got definitly the ports CNC ported.
So I think a mild porting of the exhaust ports is definitly the way to go for a streetable LSJ along with upgraded cams to open up the top end and lower the heat levels.
If we look at the Comp Cams grinds they offer, IMO the Stage 2 (or the blower grind) could be plenty enough to bring some smiles in our faces. We should simply get our stock cams grinded (or buy another set and sent them to Comp for grinding).
Hopefully I will be brave enough to open that motor soon to be on of the guinea pig ... again.
i don't need to put the 60's in. i have already had the car above 270 whp on the 42's, so the power is there, it just becomes unstable when you do that. comp cams are not offered for the lsj engines. so that rules that one out. as far as doing the head work, not a problem. i don't have a problem doing this, id rather do this, than stick 60's on the car and fight it for 6 months, and watch the car fire off codes left and right because of it.
you're not the only test monkey here man, ther e is a couple os uf running around trying to hide from the needles.
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From: Quebec City, Quebec
Comp Cams does not offer some 100% direct fit replacement cams, this is right. But ...
1 : In the GMPP LSJ 300+ HP build book, they did use their Stage 2 grind, so why not ...
2 : And also we should buy both a "2.2" Comp Cams Exhaust cam and a LSJ stock exhaust cam to get them compared. Hold on I know we all say : The LSJ one is longer ! I think this is true because of that pressed-on bushing. MAYBE we can add that pressed-on bushing at the right angle into the "2.2" Comp cam. I did not read any post of someone who tried it that way. Also GM states the 2006 LSJ and L61 exhaust and intake cams are identical dimensions and same mold. (Except for that pressed-on bushing).
1 : In the GMPP LSJ 300+ HP build book, they did use their Stage 2 grind, so why not ...
2 : And also we should buy both a "2.2" Comp Cams Exhaust cam and a LSJ stock exhaust cam to get them compared. Hold on I know we all say : The LSJ one is longer ! I think this is true because of that pressed-on bushing. MAYBE we can add that pressed-on bushing at the right angle into the "2.2" Comp cam. I did not read any post of someone who tried it that way. Also GM states the 2006 LSJ and L61 exhaust and intake cams are identical dimensions and same mold. (Except for that pressed-on bushing).
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
The reason why the LSJ Exhaust cam is longer is because it has the Camshaft Position Sensor on the end of it, used to make the motor start on first crank. 2007+ 2.2's have it too actually.
If you can block off the oil passge on the head where the longer exhaust cam is, then you could get away with 2.2 cams.
If you can block off the oil passge on the head where the longer exhaust cam is, then you could get away with 2.2 cams.
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From: Quebec City, Quebec
The LSJ exhaust cam itself is not longer, there is an added bushing to it to drive the cam position sensor.
GM states right in the following PDF file that the 2006 L61 and LSJ cams are the SAME CASTING. The LSJ cam is longer ONLY because there is a bushing pressed INTO the rear of that LSJ cam (on the sensor side).
http://tunersource.gmblogs.com/Racer...FO-SHEET-2.pdf
GM states right in the following PDF file that the 2006 L61 and LSJ cams are the SAME CASTING. The LSJ cam is longer ONLY because there is a bushing pressed INTO the rear of that LSJ cam (on the sensor side).
http://tunersource.gmblogs.com/Racer...FO-SHEET-2.pdf
Last edited by Jmc007; Sep 5, 2007 at 02:45 PM. Reason: We will shine soon ...
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Oh, I think that is referring to the hex key that is pressed on the end so that the cam sensor works.
Something I just thought of actually. Just have 2 "2.2" intake cams grounded, 1 exhaust and 1 intake, that way they both will be longer like the LSJ cams. You still won't have the cam sensor working, but you no longer need to worry about blocking the oil passage to it.
Something I just thought of actually. Just have 2 "2.2" intake cams grounded, 1 exhaust and 1 intake, that way they both will be longer like the LSJ cams. You still won't have the cam sensor working, but you no longer need to worry about blocking the oil passage to it.
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From: Quebec City, Quebec
Oh, I think that is referring to the hex key that is pressed on the end so that the cam sensor works.
Something I just thought of actually. Just have 2 "2.2" intake cams grounded, 1 exhaust and 1 intake, that way they both will be longer like the LSJ cams. You still won't have the cam sensor working, but you no longer need to worry about blocking the oil passage to it.
Something I just thought of actually. Just have 2 "2.2" intake cams grounded, 1 exhaust and 1 intake, that way they both will be longer like the LSJ cams. You still won't have the cam sensor working, but you no longer need to worry about blocking the oil passage to it.
1 : A male hexagonal shaft on the sensor side.
2 : A female hexagonal hole in the cam. That hexagonal hole is part of a bushing. That bushing (for say one or two inches long) is pressed INTO the exhaust cam which cause that cam to be longer than the 2.2 cam.
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Mine idles just fine when I don't have an exhaust leak, lol...
However, the JBP aren't as aggressive as cams like the HKS 272 grind. My AC works just fine, and my car is daily driven, mainly city cause it's 1 mile to work for me. As far as power goes, even though JBP states that the "Tri-Flow" makes power both high and low, I did not see it in the dyno. I have yet to get a good dyno; though, because by the time we figured out what the tuning issues were w/ my car, we only got like two runs in and gave up cause it was the end of the day. I'm getting the exhaust leak taken care of this weekend and then going to get the tune perfected by the end of the month. Hopefully w/ cold weather and low humidity, I can put down some decent numbers. The only graph I have isn't even the best, but it was 243.9whp on a mustang. I wish I had another 2.8" pullied car's graph from that dyno to compare it to. That would make it much easier to see if the cams helped and where...
The big thing w/ cams is that when something changes, even small stuff like the size of the air filter or an exhaust leak, it changes things radically w/ idle. It's good that you have HPT Area, cause you will need it w/ a cammed car. It would be nice if I had a tune for warm weather and a tune for cold weather that I could change between. My AFR was dead on 11.4+/-(.1) through the whole pull in P.E. Who knows what it'll look like when the weather is 40degrees colder and humidity is less 35-40%...
However, the JBP aren't as aggressive as cams like the HKS 272 grind. My AC works just fine, and my car is daily driven, mainly city cause it's 1 mile to work for me. As far as power goes, even though JBP states that the "Tri-Flow" makes power both high and low, I did not see it in the dyno. I have yet to get a good dyno; though, because by the time we figured out what the tuning issues were w/ my car, we only got like two runs in and gave up cause it was the end of the day. I'm getting the exhaust leak taken care of this weekend and then going to get the tune perfected by the end of the month. Hopefully w/ cold weather and low humidity, I can put down some decent numbers. The only graph I have isn't even the best, but it was 243.9whp on a mustang. I wish I had another 2.8" pullied car's graph from that dyno to compare it to. That would make it much easier to see if the cams helped and where...
The big thing w/ cams is that when something changes, even small stuff like the size of the air filter or an exhaust leak, it changes things radically w/ idle. It's good that you have HPT Area, cause you will need it w/ a cammed car. It would be nice if I had a tune for warm weather and a tune for cold weather that I could change between. My AFR was dead on 11.4+/-(.1) through the whole pull in P.E. Who knows what it'll look like when the weather is 40degrees colder and humidity is less 35-40%...
And I also dyno'd 244 with 220 torque, same dyno.
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From: Still fixing others mistakes.
Oh, I think that is referring to the hex key that is pressed on the end so that the cam sensor works.
Something I just thought of actually. Just have 2 "2.2" intake cams grounded, 1 exhaust and 1 intake, that way they both will be longer like the LSJ cams. You still won't have the cam sensor working, but you no longer need to worry about blocking the oil passage to it.
Something I just thought of actually. Just have 2 "2.2" intake cams grounded, 1 exhaust and 1 intake, that way they both will be longer like the LSJ cams. You still won't have the cam sensor working, but you no longer need to worry about blocking the oil passage to it.
this is the type of threads i like, people are brainstorming. one of us is going to come up with an answer to this at some point in time.
then again, i haven't even had the valve cover off my car yet
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I need to see a good pic of a 2.2 cam and 2.0 cam. Or just get my hands on a 2.2 cam. I knew the bushing was pressed in, but I didn't think that caused the cam to be longer. I thought the cam was physically casted longer.
Need to get WOP in here. He = LSJ god.
Need to get WOP in here. He = LSJ god.
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I'll wait to compare when we can get my car back to 100%. I'm not too concerned about peak numbers, the curve of the powerband is what interests me more. I'll have about the same setup as you (plus cams) when I get back there. I'll ask Matt to show me your graph after we finish my best pull...
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From: Still fixing others mistakes.
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The same link I posted a couple of posts ago also states that the LSJ needs a replacement exhaust cam with a pressed-on bushing in it (inserted at the right angle) to oper properly. It is written there, black on white. So it must be true and I think I do not need anymore confirmation ...
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I'll wait to compare when we can get my car back to 100%. I'm not too concerned about peak numbers, the curve of the powerband is what interests me more. I'll have about the same setup as you (plus cams) when I get back there. I'll ask Matt to show me your graph after we finish my best pull...
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From: Horseheads, NY
Saab
http://arabam.milliyet.com.tr/arabam...t/motor_xx.jpg
2.2
http://www.fieroturbo.suprememotorsports.com/ecotec.JPG
Which was carried over from the 2.4 twin cam
http://www.injen.com/galleries/produ..._installed.jpg
Thats why lsjs have 2 long cams...power steering in a saab...turbo...like the lsj should be and the cam sensor
And yes the l61 has short intake and long exhaust cause teh long just powers the power steering pump
http://arabam.milliyet.com.tr/arabam...t/motor_xx.jpg
2.2
http://www.fieroturbo.suprememotorsports.com/ecotec.JPG
Which was carried over from the 2.4 twin cam
http://www.injen.com/galleries/produ..._installed.jpg
Thats why lsjs have 2 long cams...power steering in a saab...turbo...like the lsj should be and the cam sensor
And yes the l61 has short intake and long exhaust cause teh long just powers the power steering pump
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WOP will tell you the LSJ cam is longer, and that is true. But ask him if he verified why it is longer and if he had a precise look on that pressed-on bushing. I am interested on his answer also !
The same link I posted a couple of posts ago also states that the LSJ needs a replacement exhaust cam with a pressed-on bushing in it (inserted at the right angle) to oper properly. It is written there, black on white. So it must be true and I think I do not need anymore confirmation ...
The same link I posted a couple of posts ago also states that the LSJ needs a replacement exhaust cam with a pressed-on bushing in it (inserted at the right angle) to oper properly. It is written there, black on white. So it must be true and I think I do not need anymore confirmation ...
Plus DJT has access to 2.2 cams and has seen them multiple times.
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Is that a casting drawing or a finished (grinded) one. If it is finished, than it obviously shows the hex slot and it assembled (right) angle.
Are the drawings crappy style drawings like the engine block one (so that way you cannot even determine the possibility of a bushing or not) :
http://tunersource.gmblogs.com/Racer...ec-Tech-Topics
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First of all is the GM drawing for the LSJ exhaust cam detailed enough to see if there is a bushing in it ...
Is that a casting drawing or a finished (grinded) one. If it is finished, than it obviously shows the hex slot and it assembled (right) angle.
Are the drawings crappy style drawings like the engine block one (so that way you cannot even determine the possibility of a bushing or not) :
http://tunersource.gmblogs.com/Racer...ec-Tech-Topics
Is that a casting drawing or a finished (grinded) one. If it is finished, than it obviously shows the hex slot and it assembled (right) angle.
Are the drawings crappy style drawings like the engine block one (so that way you cannot even determine the possibility of a bushing or not) :
http://tunersource.gmblogs.com/Racer...ec-Tech-Topics
stand buy
bushing location is important
