MidnightNB

I've been looking into this while considering if I should build-up my car or not... for the cost of it it seems like a pretty good deal, 75 for all the gears in the tranny, 90 for the rods, wrist pins and pistons plus whatever shipping'd cost of course... even trying to figure out how much it'd cost shipped and all to get the axels done...

What I'm just wondering is obviously it makes everything stronger, but is it a huge difference? Would cryo-treated axels do as well as driveshop's stage 2 axels? Would just cryo-treating the pistons be enough for a safe reliable 400'ish whp build or should I still buy a forged set?

MidnightNB

I know some people on here have got stuff cryo'd, I'm trying to decide if I should build my car up or not and knowing what to expect from getting things cryo'd is gonna really effect what I decide to do. I dont mind spending time/money building the car, I just dont want to have my daily driver breaking down alot and running into unexpected probelms/issues.

XM15

Get forged internals and have them cryo treated.

MidnightNB

Yeah I'm considering doing that too if I end up buildin er'up, the extra cost of shipping and cryo'ing them wouldnt be very much if I allready have to ship my tranny gers and rods. What I mainly want to know is how strong those cryo treated gears are, have any of the turbo or tvs guys blown their tranny after they cryo''d it? I want to try and make a budget for a decent conservative build and get all the supporting mods in place before I mess around with power adders. This is my dd, I have no other cars. Even though I can deal with some downtime with the car, I'd much rather deal with planned, building the car-up downtime than downtime from me breaking stuff. Depending on what I can expect as far as price, reliability and power, I may or may not go through with it.

I'm interested enough though that I want to go throughly research and price everything out before I decide for/against it. I mean thats the right way to approach any possible build unless your just casually doing bolt-ons right?

spike

i dont think that any of the turbo guy have cryo'ed gear sets yet....but my trans is going soon 2 be done

MidnightNB

Well I know people have blown trannies and have had them cryoed when they rebuilt them. I'm guess they needed more than the m62 to blow a tranny unless theyre on the spray. Just wondering how much power there putting through it and how agressively theyre driving it and how its been holding up.

shadowfaxss

iTrader: (3)

I work for a large company that owns a large fleet of vehicles. We cryo-treated many components to test the durability and life expectancy of the components versus non-treated. These components included rear axles, differential components, brake rotors and many others.
Understand that a commercial application is most definately different from installing cryo-treated components on your personal vehicle but we did not see any real benefits in cryo-treated components for the price.

elecblue06

iTrader: (1)

ummm.. all places i've seen cyro treating it's been like 4$ per piston and 4$ per rod 50 $ for tranny and like 12$ per rotor..

no benefits for the price? if there is any added strength then it's worth the price

lsjwannabe

iTrader: (1)

its probably not being cryo'd then probably just having the temp dropped to -100f not -300f

elecblue06

iTrader: (1)

http://www.nitrofreeze.com/racing.html

they say they bring it down to -300* no where do they say -100... 300below (for some reason isn't working right now) and they had similar pricing most of the places i see it's about the same price

idk

ok well maybe it's more then i said but it's still not THAT bad i mean for the WHOLE endgine and tranny including flywheel it's 550 for 4 cylinders

selfinfliction

i cryo everything, www.procryo.com (evan's performance for those who are around circle track racing, you'll know who this is) does all of my work, they're in atlanta and have pretty decent turn around time. when you call down there to get a quote, make sure you write down who gave the quote to you because sometimes they will cut you a deal and then forget and try to charge you full price.

don't do the pistons, the rods will be a good idea and if you use procryo, get the rem treatment done on the gears. if the axles are steel you can get them done too with rem done on the splines and that will make them substantially stronger

here's a picture of one of my supra rods after being cryo'd, it turns parts a slightly brown color



cryo changes the structure of the metal itself, i'm not a metallurgist and couldn't tell you the actual data behind it, but here's about the best description i could find on the internet.

http://www.sigmaauto.com/cryogenics/portal.php

if anyone doubts the process, you are crazy. between getting dfl on all contact surfaces and cryo'ing a complete motorcycle motor, i get a rough average of 10-15%whp gain

MidnightNB

How much did the coatings cost to get done... a motorcycle is making better gains than a car would beacuse the friction would make more loss for them at higher rpm.. If something like that would add 5% more whp, on a 300-400whp build that could be 15-20whp, pretty good price considering what it also does for durabiity and stregth of the components along with the cryo treating.

selfinfliction

the prices depend on how much stuff you send them, if it's a big order they will cut you a deal. they don't put prices up on their website, cause they work with alot of people depending on the size of their orders. he cuts me a good deal because they do all of my ceramic coating, dfl and cryo/rem work. i can't really share my price, cause i know he give me a discount, he has also done thousands of dollars of work for me and my brother over the past few years... and he will be doing thousands more in the next few years

theneelster

If it's cheap enough to justify doing it why not?

Not sure about ripping apart the tranny to do it however

elecblue06

iTrader: (1)

it's very common to do it to tranny's it helps alot for there apparently.. however having the car for downtime can be a pain unless you get a new tranny from a junk yard or a new one but that ups the cost

selfinfliction

if it's not a track car, or you won't be going over 400hp, i wouldn't touch the tranny. it doesn't cost much, but it's not worth 20 hours of labor either.

MidnightNB

I plan on throwing some slicks on it and running atleast a 2.7,60's,meth and a 75 shot, maybe a 100 shot to hit the track next year if I bother to build the motor. I also want to go twincharge or turbo later on. With those goals in mind I think cryo'ing the tranny'd be a good idea. I think theres a shop that does cryo treating a few hrs away that I could get my buddy to drop off the parts at. I wanna look into cryo'ing the axels too, so I dont snap it from hard launches on slicks. I want a reliable build, this is my dd, I drive it all year round including winter. I travel back home 900 miles each way 3 or 4 times per year in it. I still want it to be able to handle hitting the strip and being ready for a road trip the next day.

20hrs of labour you say? How hard is it to do it yourself(taking the tranny apart)? I'd be getting some more experienced people to help me. The local car club is pretty helpfull and the mechanics attached to my unit usually dont mind working for a case or 2 of beer around here,lol.

hungryhip-ccp

iTrader: (2)

only one i know of is jimboss

MidnightNB

How much are they in a junkyard?

Also, could someone give me any input what kind of hp cryo'ing the axels would make them strong enough to handle? I'd ideally like my car to hit around 400 either on the spray, or on boost if I twincharge or go turbo. But to be safe, I'd like to build the drivetrain and engine to handle 50 to 100whp more than what I'm shooting for. I want a SAFE build, not "oh well I'll just throw some more boost and see what it can handle and build it up when it breaks".

I find it much easier to handle planned downtime of my car, than to have to deal with it all of a sudden, especially since with my luck it'd happen just before I go on leave and I wont be able to go back home( Other than obviously my wife and my daughter, both of our families all live about a thoulsand miles away and I go back 3 or 4 times a year)

hungryhip-ccp

iTrader: (2)

um i think your asking for alot...

Werewolf SS

Call The Drive Shaft Shop they do make 800hp axles for the SS S/C ($1,999). As for building the tranny you'll need to get a hold of a Transmission shop and see what they can do grenade proof it.

MidnightNB

You dont think I could hit 400whp with a 2.7,60's,meth, ported head, ported intake manfold, ported blower, header+full 3" exaust and a 100 wet shot of nitrous? If I put in a better clutch, driveshop stage 2 axels, cryo the tranny and put in a set of wiseco forged pistons you dont think a drivetrain capable of handling 450whp is realistic? If I twincharge my car you dont think I could hit 400whp either?

Look, I'm trying to collect some info to decide if I wanna do this or not... but I will have the cash so that shouldnt be a problem. I have about 500 a month left to spend after my bills and expenses, I'm getting a raise of about $250 a month after taxes next month, I'm getting 2-3k in tax return next year beacuse my wife isnt working and in Canada, that allows me to reduce my payable taxes by alot (and I'm getting taxed almost 40% of my income), I'm also getting 2k in back-pay for a new retro-active raise in march. My point is, I'm not just trying to be some newb trying to feel important by asking alot of questions, I am seriously considering getting alot of power out of this car and still keeping it reliable, I dont want to run it at 400whp every day, 300-350whp depending on my setup is all I need to a fun rip out in the back-country, but I'm looking to be able to quench my thirst for more power when I want it.

I'm living on dinky little down with nothing to do beacuse the army sent me here... I have no hobbies other than my car and I'm considering getting serious about it, I'd apreciate getting some constructive comments and advice instead of just someone telling me I cant do it. After seeing a 450whp neon at the last car club meet I thought I midas well plan and price-out what I could put-down with my car if I set my heart (and wallet) on it.

The goal... would be to try to build my drivetrain to handle alot of power, and then just make what I can out of the stock blower and run a large shot of nitrous to make up the rest... kind of like blown-4-banger's build. Then say next year when I save up some more cash, then I can sell the nitrous set-up and go turbo or twincharge.